BF2S Forums U.S. has been the greatest military aggressors of the last century

Hey guys , lets simmer down and stop being titty babies and getting all offended. We talkin about the U.S. Being a agressor or not.  We rnt talking about whose black and whose white or whether or not the we might join the nazi party.

And yes many of the japanese army wanted to keep fighting. In fact the military still wanted to fight after hiroshima and nagashaki. It was the emperor who stopped them because ,qoute, "i cannot stand to watch any more of my people die". Also there were strategic targets at both bomb sites. But in the end it was clearly it was right to kill 100,000 Japs becuase A. It convinced the Emperor to end the war B. If we had not 100,000 of our soliders would have died stopping the Japs

Better them than us

See, thing is, in a wartime targetting civilians is the lowest thing that you can do. The Japanese did it, but the Americans made themselves worse by killing many times more civilians, to save lives apparently...

I am ready to say that there were legitimate targets on the Japanese mainland, but that did not warrant a nuclear strike. Thats like trying to perform heart surgery with a hammer.

But hey, what did I expect from people in a country that tortures prisoners because Donlad Rumsveld said, and I quote:

"The prisoners we take in Iraq and that theatre do not have the Genevea Convention laws apply to them"

Google  it, you'll see. Although I did not expect any of you Americans to know that because, hey, your press is state controlled. Thats how Bush got in the first time isn't it??

And Yellow, without flaming, You are a freaking moron. So the lives of 100 000 Japanese non combatants were worth the lives of 100 000 of "Our Guys" (well its really your guys but thats what you said). Just shows that you value American lives above all other lives, apart from being a fool

And FUCK YOU KIllerAEFT, I dont adore the nazis, how dare you say that. You must be one of those wankers that say "If you were against invading Iraq you are obviously a terrorist". Obviously, you being American means that my differing opinion to yours makes me a bad bad person you idiot.

Last edited by SharkyMcshark (2005-11-23 20:09:32)

What I said was that if it was 100 000 Japanese soldiers it would have neen fair game, but as it stands they killed many times more civilians with those bombs than soldiers

Germany was the most aggressive country last century, world wars 1 and 2 are the proof.

The United States has been the aggressor in exactly 1 war in it's entire history as a country, not including the Revolutionary War, cause we weren't a country at that point.  The 1 war? Iraq.  Were we justified? Yes.

SharkyMcshark wrote:

What I said was that if it was 100 000 Japanese soldiers it would have neen fair game, but as it stands they killed many times more civilians with those bombs than soldiers

THey still started it. Given the chance the Japanese would've bombed every city on the western seaboard before invading. The bombs saved lives on both ends but what important is that it saved American lives. That sounds pretty nationalist but if it had gone the other way around the Japanese would be saying the same. They attacked. They made the decision to instigate a war.

War is brutal and viscous and there's no law of nature that prevents civilian attacks. They lost their priveledge to those conventions when they launched the Pearl Harbor attack.

There is no way to say what is right in war, one side views something.  The other will view something else.  I view it as, we were attacked and need to stop the terrorists at all costs.  We did attack.  We have lost 2,100 soldiers to their 50,000+  and yet everyone complains!  Why cant we just do whats necessary to keep ourselves safe?  If there were another ww2 then we should bring in all the people possible to fight it.  When we nuked japan, there was no way they would stop if the generals had it their way.  After the 2nd nuke there was the emporer, who had escaped prison and surrendered.  We did have a plan if japan didnt surrender after the 2nd nuke, to nuke 7 more times in a row.  We havent had to use nukes yet (yippee)  but if we have to we need to.  When we put saddam out of power we stopped alquaidas backing of money and supplies.  Osama says the US is a paper tiger.  Well lets nuke him till hell freezes over and his tail is between his legs and hes running.  Oh wait! He cant show his face in public anymore, he always hides.  He only organises attackes from caves.  Well, i think Osama swallowed a jawbreak and is choking on his own words.

So, to prevent another 9-11, where some 3.000 people died you killed a total of 60.000 (10.000 civilians) and lost around 2.000 of your own. Wow if I know anything about these numbers it's which is greater. And Dizik you linked to a site (wikipedia) that also show civilwars. And it only shows 1990-2002. Seriously how can the American people (some) support a invasion of two countrys? Just cuse the MIGHT attack you and MIGHT harbour terrorists? Wouldn't that be like me going down the street and killing some guy cuse I see he has a gun or looks like a terrorist or funds them? That's not really selfdefense. That's murder. And by the way, why don't you invade your friends Saudi Arabia? Nearly all the terrorists from 9-11 were from Saudi Arabia. But I guess you can't really make the oil efficiency biggger there cuse they already are an opressing country loyal to you. But I thought the big bringer of democracy was the Almighty USA, can't you please invade them and bring democracy? Could anyone pro-war please anwser this?

Dizik just read your post after posting mine....too true...and very frustrating and just for the record.
A) I'm 38 married with a 5 week old daughter (she's about the only thing in world I think I would kill or die for)
B) Never been in the Military (never handled dicplipline and regioment well).  I would probably physically shit my pants in a real conflict!
D) I work in the public service for a leaving (Department of Infrastucture in State Government of Victoria, my home state in AUS.
E) I Voted plenty.  It's cumpulsory here in AUS.  They fine your arse if you don't in elections at any level (Fedral, State or Local)
F) I watch both CNN and FOX news (Along with SkyNews and Aussie Channel) and find myself screaming BULLSHIT! at the TV on a regular basis

No argument here Dizik

Now for a totally different point of view.

Former US marine, born and raised in the US of A, father and mother retired air force, several uncles fought in vietnam, several great uncles fought and died in WW2.

Personally im glad im out of the USMC, i signed up in Aug 01 at 18 years of age to pay for college, or kill people if we went to war.  Id have been in Iraq since june 04 if i hadnt had an accident that lead to physical injury keeping me from being able to keep my physical performance at a level required to stay in the Corps.

Thats a good thing, for me, and the other marines from my unit.  Ive always done better than most, and your average person has foolhardy pride and hates feeling lesser, and I never take weaklings under wing. I hate pussies that have heroes, be your own fucking hero.   Ill be friendly to people that are nice, Ill help people that ask, but I wont let anyone step on my foot.  From my time in the corps, ive met alot of degenerate assholes.  Alot of these idiots are in the Corps because they lack the capacity to be anything else but a bullet catching yes man.  We were taught in boot camp to be brothers, to take care of each other and watch over each others backs.  During bootcamp I was denied being guide because I was a "nasty" reservist.  Yeah thats right i was a fucking tampon, and I think only the no life fucking tools with no direction in life go AD in the USMC.  Grunts are the guys that were too stupid to be trusted with anything requiring more intelligence to fire a gun and obey simple orders, and too stupid to be trusted to cook food. 

So here i am a nasty POG tampon, and during bootcamp myself and the other 6 reservists were given extra shit, but i didnt mind, I ended up getting the second highest scores next to my guide(cant beat the company honorman! politics politics, those arent supposed to exist in the military).  There was a recruit, Stanley, the guy had no courage, no mental control over his body, he was one of the all to common boys that join the marine corps trying to be made into men.  The corps is full of degenerate pussies that got bullied and wanted to be tough for once, and petty criminals looking to get out of jail time.  This guy couldnt pull his own weight, and he wasnt being dropped, why?  because like all marines, our drill instructors get closer to promotion for doing their job well, and their job is making marines.  Every recruit dropped is more poor reflection on the DI.  So they try to pass everyone, only when its known outside of the platoon that somoene wasnt going to make it, that they didnt make it.  Stanley was our platoons secret, and more often than not, my ass got to pull his weight, because I was the big boy that could hack it.  I strived to become a marine, this little shit had it handed to him, thanks to politics.

MCT and MOS school I got a ton of shit from the AD guys, even the trainers, because i was one of 3 reservists, and I was the only one that wouldnt be pushed around, so the big boys wanted to try force me into submission with the other 2.  I didnt tolerate bullshit, even when my NCOs turned a blind eye to harrassment of a tampon.  I even got one of those NCO's busted for fraternizing, harrassment, deriliction of duty, and bullying some of the other marines in our class.  The only reason he got fried is because the SNCO's that i reported him to knew i wouldnt stop if they didnt act, and they didnt like that, and denied me my advanced training because I wouldnt play by the under the table rules they had tried to enforce.

Then when i went to reserve status and started drilling, I was my usual self, and I had other E3s trying to feed me some bullshit that if youre in longer, regardless if the same rank, you are the superior, and your orders are the same as a corporal's or higher.  Which is incorrect, and i got into an argument with my SNCOIC over it, and he labeled me a non team player because i wouldnt put up with the others lies.  He also tried to tell me that any order given to me by a higher rank is to be obeyed, where its only LAWFUL orders that are to be followed.  If my Sgt said to suck his dick, i could tell him fuck no, its not a lawful order.  I had redneck dumbshit piss poor guys in my platoon thanks to being in a rural part of texas, and these stupid shits had that "i cant stand someone who has it better than me" attitudes, and they ran their mouth.  I ran my mouth right back and my words hurt, and the E5 that was bunked with us(wasnt supposed to be, another rule broken by the higher ups out of laziness and lack of care) shared backgrounds with the other two dumbshits i was running my mouth on, so He decided to ruin my Pro/Con score, because the E8 that was supposed to was "too busy" to do his own job, he handed it to an E5 who is NOT of rank to be doing fitness reports.   The same SNOIC i had problems with dealing with the "superior E3s"  slapped the E5 on the wrist and left my Pro/Con the same, and didnt reprimand the other fools that were initially running their mouths, and i my hate for the majority of the marines was hitting the breaking point.

Thankfully, there was an accident shortly after that got me my ticket out, because if it hadnt, there would have been atleast a platoon of dead marines and one in the brig for going postal.  Why the fuck would i want to shoot someone I dont even know thats closer to their home than I am, doing something they believe in, when im just paid to be a bullet catching yes man, when i could shoot people I KNEW were shitbags and nothing more than either unthinking fools taking lives because they are told to, or they were mecenaries there for the money, and thus more deserving of death?

Do I believe the US should be in Iraq?  i dont give a flying fuck.  Im so disgruntled and pissed off at the majority of the world for being a bunch of fools or assholes or dickless pussies, that Id take life and not give a fuck, and probably feel righteous in doing it.

Unquestioning fools make for great pawns, I blame the men and women of germany during hitlers regime, not hitler, sure he was evil, but that didnt give him power, weak minds did.  Weak minded they may have been, but they were still capable of taking lives, which is appearently so precious to humans, because we have double standards, and a majority of us fear death and think it the most horrific crime.  Death is part of life, it cannot exist without it.  War is as integral to humanity as death is to life, its just something we are incapable of escaping, no matter how much the whiney bitch babies wish to delude themselves of otherwise.  Other animals do the same shit, ants, bees, dogs, hell animals kill over rights to breed , and we accept it.  Humans dont kill each other for the chance at a piece of poon, but we do kill each other to get what we want if its necessary, that much is proven beyond doubt for our minimum 6 thousand years.  Get used to it, its part of us, war is the reason humans have developed so much.  Strife is the mother of invention, war is the reason we have developed our technology and arent using stones tied to tree branches to club food.  agriculture, metalurgy, medicine, architecture, are all children of war.

It is people that dont question "rules" and "orders" that people called leaders prey on.  Leaders are nothing but power mongers, power is another defining aspect of man, deal with it.  China is known to have the poorest value in human life, yet they are one of the most dangerous powers in the world, because they have so many pawns willing to die for "country" unquestioned, just like the 2 million dead North vietnamese soldiers from Vietnam.

As for the US being cruel for dropping the nukes on hiroshima and nagasaki, they had it coming.  You honestly expect a country to pour millions of lives of their own against the initiating agressor when they could take out millions of the enemies populace in 2 bomb drops?  youre a fool.

As for the US being cornered after WW2?  hardly, we had nuclear weapons, and truman would have used them on the krauts and the japs(wait he did use it on them!).  Sure hitler was developing nukes too, but he was behind, and if it wasnt for the allies in Europe, Im willing to bet Berlin would have been nuked before Japan.  We had nukes first, and we would have used them to save our ass to any extent.

Germany was losing because hitler was a non strategic fool, and I believe he would have been assassinated by a usurper at some point, that would have done a better job.  If the US hadnt intervened WW2 would have been lost one way or another.  the germans could have played the war of attrition with russia easy, and then crushed russia when they were too depleted.  There have been plenty of evil men throughout history, not all of them have lead world wars and killed 6 million people in an attempt at genocide, because they lacked having an economically and militarily powerful country behind them.  Charles manson was far more evil, but he didnt have enough pawns or the funds to train and equip them for war.

Hitler did some evil things, but he was insane, the main purpose of hitler's war was to bring about world peace.  he wanted to eliminate difference so that there wouldnt be strife.  So for trying to bring power to his people and end world strife, he could be seen as a kind hearted guy, if you want to look at it through that demented point of view.  It was all based on his personal perception.  Just like the perception of a majority of americans that though black people were less than human and were animals to be made into livestock for farm tools.  for 100 years after that they were thought of as human enough to not be property, but not enough to be given equal rights.  Just like back in the days of the pilgrims, the common thought was that puritans were less than the church of england, which was instated so a murderous fool of a king could divorce instead of murder and not feel "evil".  The USA that fought world war 2 was far from good guys, they downsized people simply for their race.

The USA's claim to "Freedom" makes me sick with its hypocracy.  If you honestly believe that you are free, youre the kind of person that is easily lied to and are perfect for taking lives of others and giving yours for another man's wants(or in the case of the USA, several men).  And the whole reason the US was started was so that rich men could become wealthier, they were looking out for themselves, not the deprived.  They had some power and wanted more, they wanted to have less people above them telling them what to do, and to get the people behind them, they had the genius plan to make those people think they were getting what they wanted, so in turn they would die for them.

To every man that fought under another man's banner, I spit in your face.  To every man that beguiled others into killing and dying for you, Ill see you in Hell.  Im just trying to enjoy the ride there.

And during WW2, the USA had the largest draft in its history, and if you didnt join you went to jail.  If you did submit and joined, but decided to change your mind and not want to fight anymore, you were a deserter, and the USA had more desertion executions than even Russia during WW2.  So, go to jail for being unamerican, die for being a traitor, or have the chance to live if you dont get killed in being a hero?  which to do which to do.  Fuck this country.


You see its disgruntled crazy fucks like me that have pulled columbines, CO.  you never hear about shit like this in UK, Germany, France, Australlia.  The US needs to take time and work on the interior and fix internal problems, and stop its duality style attitude and hypocracies, before it goes around trying to fix other countries.  But this country isnt really about helping people, its about helping those who have the drive, to gain power, and internal stuff isnt as yielding for power currently as international actions.

Last edited by USonuMabeaCh (2005-11-24 05:36:42)

FeloniousMonk wrote:

SharkyMcshark wrote:

They blew up TWO Japanese cities, whilst the Japanese were on their way to surrender.

Sorry, you're wrong. The only reason the Japanese surrendered was because of those bombs. They were offered a warning before the first one was dropped, which they ignored. They were given a second chance to surrender before the second bomb was dropped, which they also denied.

They killed civilians in Pearl Harbor. They started it.

Yes it was a pretty horrible thing to do but it was necessary to prevent the loss of more lives on both sides.

sharkymcshark pretty much is in his own world

What I don't understand is why anyone is supporting Iraq. Iraq would not be on the road to a better country without the USA and coalition invading. Saddam was an extremely horrible man, and he wasn't going to change and make the country better. Now in Iraq the people do not need to fear a single man with no limit to his power.

Frankly I think we should do the same to North Korea too, and several other countries that have despot warlords that are more concerned about themselves then the country they govern.

Nehil wrote:

So, to prevent another 9-11, where some 3.000 people died you killed a total of 60.000 (10.000 civilians) and lost around 2.000 of your own. Wow if I know anything about these numbers it's which is greater. And Dizik you linked to a site (wikipedia) that also show civilwars. And it only shows 1990-2002. Seriously how can the American people (some) support a invasion of two countrys? Just cuse the MIGHT attack you and MIGHT harbour terrorists? Wouldn't that be like me going down the street and killing some guy cuse I see he has a gun or looks like a terrorist or funds them? That's not really selfdefense. That's murder. And by the way, why don't you invade your friends Saudi Arabia? Nearly all the terrorists from 9-11 were from Saudi Arabia. But I guess you can't really make the oil efficiency biggger there cuse they already are an opressing country loyal to you. But I thought the big bringer of democracy was the Almighty USA, can't you please invade them and bring democracy? Could anyone pro-war please anwser this?

So you SUPPORT Saddam and his many many torture chambers? And the genocide? And all the other shit?
Its not that said guy down the street has a gun, it's that hes pointing it a a 12-year old girls head while he rapes her. There. That is sufficiently graphic to make my point, even if it is a little off.

Last edited by n1nj41c l337ne55 (2005-11-24 18:57:57)