BF2S Forums U.S. has been the greatest military aggressors of the last century

No you can't hunt with guns, you can't hunt at all . Nah I don't really see why anyone would want to hunt...exept for food. Hunting for fun is not good. And I don't agree with your views on the "rules of war".
Yea I guess "earn" was not a good word, didn't find any better.

No I don't think I am religious. My friends often call me the third anti-Christ becuse of my views on most religions. But I don't really wanna debate about that becuse religion matters alot to alot of people and if they wanna belive in something let them, who am I to say they are wrong when I can't prove that God doesn't exists? I guess my views seem kind of extreme and dumb, but I guess I'm entitled to them since I'm a crazy commie. But I've been raised in catholic home.

Wow...I read this whole thread, every post, every page.  I have to say, there are some people on both sides of this arguement that are really misinformed about history and current events.  I'm not claiming to be "all knowing" or to have all the answers.

One of the things that really caught my attention was the assertion that WW2 would've still been won if the US had not interveined.  How quickly some of you Europeans forget Dunkirk in 1940.  The Allied army was on the verge of destruction, being pushed in the the ocean, but Hitler stopped his advance.  The German army was poised to absolutely CRUSH the French and UK forces.  German commanders called this Hitler's first major mistake of the war.  Panzer divisions were waiting for the order to advance, but that order never came.  To even suggest that you would've defeated the German army without the US is an bogus argument to say the least. 

Now don't take that as me waiving the "Go USA" banner, I'm not.  I think we all can agree that it was a combined effort between all the Allied countries involved that won the war, but it took the US finally putting troops on the ground that pushed the Allies over the top.  Not this, "USA saved your asses!  In your face arguement."  Because lets face it, had we not gone in when we did, it may have been too late and we could not have defeated Germany and Japan on our own either.  We needed you as much as you needed us.

Now as for the US being the biggest aggressor of the 20th century.  Dumb.  Germany started 2 global conflicts, the biggest the world has ever seen.  That should be enough to give them the gold.  Has the US been in the right in all its military endeavors?  Absolutely not.  Was this current operation in Iraq a mistake?  History will be the ultimate judge of that, it's way, WAY too early for anyone to call Iraq a success or a failure. 

Do I support the war in Iraq?  Yes, but not for the WMD reason (even though the US, UK and its allies had 3 very convincing intelligence reports claiming Saddam had WMD).  Saddam was a dangerous man.  The attrocities he commited against his own people should be reason enough to remove him forcefully from power.  And you'd be foolish to think that a man of his caliber was NOT attempting to rebuild his weapons caches.  I also believe that there are people in this world that you cannot reason with diplomatically, and I firmly believe that Saddam was one of these men.  But that does not mean that you shouldn't try to seek a diplomatic solution to any problem, war should always, ALWAYS be a last resort.

Gun control?  I believe there's a thread for that, but I'll be damned if someone is going to take away my right to own a gun. 

Last edited by BigSwoll (2005-12-10 02:15:07)

Umm I guess I have to fight back here a bit. Well first I'd like to thank you for saying that the USA needed Europe just as much as Europe needed the USA. But I still think that the war in Europe would have been won without USA. Becuse that way Russia would mobilize all it's war efforts to the west and not wait for Japan to attack the eastcoast (but really what is there, Vladviostock?). I think it's hard to understand for Americans what was going on here during WWII, in Europe. Do you really know what people in that time thought of the war? If the US didn't interfere the Axis forces would have been ambushed everywhere by civilians, and this did happen in all Europe during the WWII. The one event that did turn the tides of war was the winter in Russia. If it would have been hot summer Moskow would be lost and all east would be lost, the German forces were in fucking India at one time and close to taking whole Africa. Things were sure as hell going bad. But the winter came and stopped all Axis forces from going more east, whole divisions got paralyzed by the winter. Allowing russian forces to get supplies and reinforcments to eventually take Berlin. Before you think you have anything to say about the "Without US or not" matter please read the "Berlin" and "Stalingrad" books. But also, thanks for helping out in the WWII, if the USA wouldn't it sure as hell would have been worse.

Nehil wrote:

Umm I guess I have to fight back here a bit. Well first I'd like to thank you for saying that the USA needed Europe just as much as Europe needed the USA. But I still think that the war in Europe would have been won without USA. Becuse that way Russia would mobilize all it's war efforts to the west and not wait for Japan to attack the eastcoast (but really what is there, Vladviostock?). I think it's hard to understand for Americans what was going on here during WWII, in Europe. Do you really know what people in that time thought of the war? If the US didn't interfere the Axis forces would have been ambushed everywhere by civilians, and this did happen in all Europe during the WWII. The one event that did turn the tides of war was the winter in Russia. If it would have been hot summer Moskow would be lost and all east would be lost, the German forces were in fucking India at one time and close to taking whole Africa. Things were sure as hell going bad. But the winter came and stopped all Axis forces from going more east, whole divisions got paralyzed by the winter. Allowing russian forces to get supplies and reinforcments to eventually take Berlin. Before you think you have anything to say about the "Without US or not" matter please read the "Berlin" and "Stalingrad" books. But also, thanks for helping out in the WWII, if the USA wouldn't it sure as hell would have been worse.

Yes, I'm sure Russia would've just rolled over on the east coast and let Japan run around unchecked.  Are you serious?  If it wasn't for the USA's so called "interference" with supplies to begin with Germany wins.  It was the Lend-Lease Act that kept the Allied countries afloat.   If the USA had not provided supplies and eventually putting troops on the ground, YOU are speaking German, because the Allied forces and civilians were doing a bang-up job prior to the US entering the war in 1941. 

Last edited by BigSwoll (2005-12-11 07:17:45)

j-bass wrote:

easy there lefty.  I think it would be more accurate to say the U.S.  has responded to more aggression than any other country.  All of Europe would be speaking German right now if not for the United States.

i think not.

Game* wrote:

SlartyBartFast wrote:

I don't see the US as an agressor.

Can you tell me why the US headed into iraq. And if ur answer be to take the cruel saddam hussein out of buisness... then tell me who does the united states think they are? THey had no right to go into another countrys buisness. IMO

buisness is probably the one and main reason that they went there in the first place, oil oil wonderful oil, osama is such an evil evil evil person, who is most likely dead, but who knows, he was probably a puppet, mega rich but a puppet, it does make u think though, because the arabs own nearly all of american land and buisnesses, and the thing that always makes me think is the fact that old bush actually is freinds with the bin ladens and when the planes were all grounded after the twin towers there were only 4 planes that were flying over us soil, thats the presidents and all of bin ladens family getting flown to safety in fear of reprivales from the us ppl.

how many other wars have the us gone into for profit, or the fact that they saw someone else in a war and didnt intervene until they got there nose bloodied by someone



a side note, i condone the attacks that happened with the twin towers and mean no offense to anyone when i bring up this subject.

and horseman i aint deluded there was more than just your contrie in this war but if u are american i probably think that u are correct. as most americans believe they are the rulers of the galaxie, i mean come on usa is the world police even if there president does try to hide in a closet at press confrences

Last edited by shingara (2005-12-11 07:56:03)

j-bass wrote:

easy there lefty.  I think it would be more accurate to say the U.S.  has responded to more aggression than any other country.  All of Europe would be speaking German right now if not for the United States.

and so would you.


Do you really thikn hitler would have stopped at Europe?  He would have stayed there long enough to build up a large enough military to wipe you out and you would also be speaking german.

Horseman 77 wrote:

You will notice Terror attacks dropped of to nothing after G.W.Bush's Attack on Iraq. From eight attacks under clinton to one attack under Bush. Seems like they fucked with the wrong president.

I was in the late 70s  that they exposed all the WWII Intell they had on Germany and Japan. History will show. Know one knows the Truth except for the people looking at the Satelite photos and Intell intercepts.

everyone else is just geussing

hmm they stopped did they, ow off course you are taking america as being the wholoe world. and they dont need to do any damage on us soil it seems they can do it easy enough in iraq. this kind of war is impossible to win by invading countries because unlike most wars they dont actually have a set country if anything i think this is more of a holy war. but i think if everyone was honest with this subject there was no insurency problems in iraq before because that regime didnt allow it it be there,

ps u said that invading iraq stopped them attacking the usa. and they fucked with the wrong president. wasnt it osam bin laden who attacked the usa and not iraq, didnt america put sudam there in the first place and was great buddies with him. so what exactly are u saying is the reason that america wanted to invaded iraq

shingara wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

You will notice Terror attacks dropped of to nothing after G.W.Bush's Attack on Iraq. From eight attacks under clinton to one attack under Bush. Seems like they fucked with the wrong president.

I was in the late 70s  that they exposed all the WWII Intell they had on Germany and Japan. History will show. Know one knows the Truth except for the people looking at the Satelite photos and Intell intercepts.

everyone else is just geussing

hmm they stopped did they, ow off course you are taking america as being the wholoe world. and they dont need to do any damage on us soil it seems they can do it easy enough in iraq. this kind of war is impossible to win by invading countries because unlike most wars they dont actually have a set country if anything i think this is more of a holy war. but i think if everyone was honest with this subject there was no insurency problems in iraq before because that regime didnt allow it it be there,

ps u said that invading iraq stopped them attacking the usa. and they fucked with the wrong president. wasnt it osam bin laden who attacked the usa and not iraq, didnt america put sudam there in the first place and was great buddies with him. so what exactly are u saying is the reason that america wanted to invaded iraq

They didn't have any insurgecy problems in Iraq because Saddam murdered any body that disagreed with him.

Game* wrote:

Can you tell me why the US headed into iraq. And if ur answer be to take the cruel saddam hussein out of buisness... then tell me who does the united states think they are? THey had no right to go into another countrys buisness. IMO

Just like the US had no right to throw Hitler out of power, right?

shingara wrote:

he was probably a puppet, mega rich but a puppet

Wrong. Read up on bin Laden and what he did in Mogadishu.

because the arabs own nearly all of american land and buisnesses

hahahahahahaha back it up

a side note, i condone the attacks that happened with the twin towers and mean no offense to anyone when i bring up this subject.

Care to explain why you condone the murder of innocent civilians?

Kingswat wrote:

Terror attacks increased since you went in to Iraq, they decreased when you went to afghanistan.

Terror attacks on US soil have not increased. Attacks on freed Iraqi citizens trying to live in a liberated country have because Saddam's supporters are pissed off that they can't oppress their fellow countrymen anymore. The people instigating these attacks are the ones that want to murder, rape, and steal at will. Then there are the religious nuts who attack because they want the US out. Why? Because they know full well that the US will not stand for any religion that oppresses innocent civilians just as much as Saddam did.

Game* wrote:

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Just like the US had no right to throw Hitler out of power, right?

Hitler is a diff story, the holocaust and waht saddam did are two VERY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS.

saddam was an evil leader no doubt and did need to be takin out of power...but the war in iraq can u tell me WHAT THE FUCK IS THE REASON TO GO INTO IRAQ AND GET 2000 troops killed people who i KNEW died. and it pissess me off that people are saying that bush has the right to go into iraq and do that.

How so? Hitler wanted to rid of the world of people that were not of the Aryan race, Saddam wanted to rid the world of people that didn't adhere to his Ba'athist regime. The only difference between the two is that he's been taken out of power before he had the chance to become as powerful as Hitler.

can u tell me WHAT THE FUCK IS THE REASON TO GO INTO IRAQ AND GET 2000 troops killed

saddam was an evil leader no doubt and did need to be takin out of power

You answered your own question, buddy.

Last edited by FeloniousMonk (2005-12-11 10:08:28)