kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|7115|Bryan/College Station, TX

KillerAFET wrote:

And, as a final note, you should thank the United States Navy for stopping the Japanese invasion of Austrailia in the Battle of the Coral Sea. I imagine that the Japanese would have treated an occupied Canberra with the same honor and respect they treated all the other occupied cities like Manila, Singapore, Shanghai, etc.  Maybe then your thought process would have been altered because it was your blood that was spilled by the barbaric Bushido.  The best way to put it is that a nation that is the victim does not turn the other cheek if it has the means and will to respond.  Human nature.  If you are slapped by a person inferior to you in strength and stature you will slap back and not cower.
Just from a quick point of the Bushido Code.

Do not dishonor the Bushido Code as the code itself it very enlightening.
The actions of the Japanese in many "events" that transpired over the course of WWII and before against the citizens of many different nations were not the actions of those who follow the code but were the actions of men who did not care for the lives of others and were acting without the truths of the Bushido code at heart.

Here is a link to a simple explanation of The Bushido Code.  In it you will recognize a great many good qualities for a warrior. Honor is a very precious thing and the actions of many Japanese during WWII did not show the embodiment of the Bushido.

So please do not reference the Bushido Code as the reasoning behind these evil endeavors.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
freebirdpat
Base Rapist
+5|7024

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Roughly thirty thousand each year. Huge number, right? Consider that we have about three hundred million people in this country and it's quite a small percentage. Then you have to take into account the fact that all firearm deaths are included in these tallies, including criminals being shot by police officers, home invaders being shot by home owners, suicides, and accidental discharges.
Great points the only thing I would mention is the people that fight over clan turf or some other bullcrap like drugs or whatever. Most deaths though I am going to guess are due to some sort of criminal behavior being involved.
Nehil
Member
+3|7002|South Sweden (NOT SWITZERLAND)

freebirdpat wrote:

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Roughly thirty thousand each year. Huge number, right? Consider that we have about three hundred million people in this country and it's quite a small percentage. Then you have to take into account the fact that all firearm deaths are included in these tallies, including criminals being shot by police officers, home invaders being shot by home owners, suicides, and accidental discharges.
Great points the only thing I would mention is the people that fight over clan turf or some other bullcrap like drugs or whatever. Most deaths though I am going to guess are due to some sort of criminal behavior being involved.
Yea I know that it would include all those things, but still it's kinda huge. Even when compared to the population.
freebirdpat
Base Rapist
+5|7024

Nehil wrote:

freebirdpat wrote:

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Roughly thirty thousand each year. Huge number, right? Consider that we have about three hundred million people in this country and it's quite a small percentage. Then you have to take into account the fact that all firearm deaths are included in these tallies, including criminals being shot by police officers, home invaders being shot by home owners, suicides, and accidental discharges.
Great points the only thing I would mention is the people that fight over clan turf or some other bullcrap like drugs or whatever. Most deaths though I am going to guess are due to some sort of criminal behavior being involved.
Yea I know that it would include all those things, but still it's kinda huge. Even when compared to the population.
Actually its not, 30k with a population of 300 mil would mean its not even .1% its 0.01% of the population which is pretty statistically insignificant.

I pulled up this tidbit though: "In fact, drugs and suicides account for more than 2 out of every 3 gun deaths in the USA."

I did not know it was that large, I would like to think that stopping the unwinnable drug war would help solve things here in the USA. Along with decriminilization of pot, and different approach to the issue would be a good idea, since we have gotten pretty much no where with our current approach.

Suicides, well allowing doctor assisted suicide and having healthcare for the poor might help so that those wanted to could seek mental health treatement.

Last edited by freebirdpat (2005-11-27 06:46:55)

Nehil
Member
+3|7002|South Sweden (NOT SWITZERLAND)
It's kinda large compared to other countrys. (not Brazil that is)

Last edited by Nehil (2005-11-27 08:26:16)

Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7108
Look at our ( U.S.A. ) prision populations and you will understand every single problem the USA has.

If we shipped these people to your countries, then you would have the EXACT same problems we have here.
No matter what kind of laws, systems etc. you employed.
FeloniousMonk
Member
+0|7006

freebirdpat wrote:

Great points the only thing I would mention is the people that fight over clan turf or some other bullcrap like drugs or whatever. Most deaths though I am going to guess are due to some sort of criminal behavior being involved.
True but that exists everywhere in the world. Fighting over territory, over property, is an inherent aspect of being human. Yes, most deaths are due to some criminal behavior and often times the criminals are the ones dying.
FeloniousMonk
Member
+0|7006

Nehil wrote:

It's kinda large compared to other countrys. (not Brazil that is)
Partly we allow our citizens to protect themselves from criminals. Instead of home invasions and assaults you end up with a lot of dead bad guys.

Last edited by FeloniousMonk (2005-11-27 14:34:34)

SlartyBartFast
Member
+0|7003|Australia

KillerAFET wrote:

Wonderful!!!  See how adult conversations can go when the vulgarisms are removed?  Good for you!!! 

And, as a final note, you should thank the United States Navy for stopping the Japanese invasion of Austrailia in the Battle of the Coral Sea. I imagine that the Japanese would have treated an occupied Canberra with the same honor and respect they treated all the other occupied cities like Manila, Singapore, Shanghai, etc.  Maybe then your thought process would have been altered because it was your blood that was spilled by the barbaric Bushido.  The best way to put it is that a nation that is the victim does not turn the other cheek if it has the means and will to respond.  Human nature.  If you are slapped by a person inferior to you in strength and stature you will slap back and not cower.

FIN
Hey Killer,
Already have thanked the US & it's citizens & military in this thread for that one....However don't assume that if the they had landed things would have gone thier way.  If they made it through the tropical jungles of the northern Australia (they could not have landed on the east coast, the Great Barrier reff prevents this) full of crocidile infested rivers, then got through the desert interior, they still would have had a few million pissed off Aussies contend with!!   Have acutally read a hypothetical article on what may have happended had they landed.  The general consesus of the article was that Brisbane would have been overrun and occupied however a front would have formed around the Queensland/New South Wales state border.  The aritcle gave many military, economic and social reasons, but in the end (as with a lot of this discussion) it's just speculation. 

Don't assume our blood wasn't spilled, we lost plenty.  Our mainland was bombed many times in Darwin (they never reached US mainland only Hawiia) with terrible loss of life.  They even had got min-subs into Sydney Harbour and torpedoed some ships, not mentioning the many troops and men whom died on foriegn soil along side the US and other allied forces.

Whilst McSharky is certainaly entitled to his opinion, (but I think it is a minority one here in Aus, well from I could see from here anti-war protests in Melbourne anyway, not huge numbers per population head), please don't put us all down in your debate with him!
SlartyBartFast
Member
+0|7003|Australia
Just been reading back through the thread with a lot of mention that Bush & Blair lied about WMD, etc.  Does anyone think that it may be possible that thier intelligence supplied to them was inccorect and they belived it?  I mean if you look at one of the popular theories of JFK's assination (Am I opening up a whole new can of worms here???), which was it was a combined effort by those making weapons (Bell Helicopter, etc), the CIA, The FBI, the Pro-Cuba and anti-cuba movements and the Mafia.  How can all these agencies pull this off?  They don't.  It only takes a few individuals in some or each, in the right position, and it can be done, and JFK pissed all these people off in one way or another. (This is just a theory and not mine).

So who's to say someone with an interest, oh lets say some oil companies, paid some people in the right position in the intellegence community a large sum of money, to come up with some information/eveidence, to kick this whole invasion of Iraq moving?  I dont know about in the US or Britain but petrol (that's gas for those in the States) has risen from around 90 cents (AUD) to around $1.30 (AUD) a litre (no idea how many litres make up a US gallon, you will have to check it on the web).  We tend to jump on our nations leaders whom base thier decisions upon intellegence and information provided to them by their (and their Allies) intellegence communites.  WHo actually is running the show in Britain, The US, Australia, etc?
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7108
That is the Theory " Fualty intell " however I believe that 80 years from now when the Truth is reveald we will all see how little we knew of the situation.
Nehil
Member
+3|7002|South Sweden (NOT SWITZERLAND)

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Nehil wrote:

It's kinda large compared to other countrys. (not Brazil that is)
Partly we allow our citizens to protect themselves from criminals. Instead of home invasions and assaults you end up with a lot of dead bad guys.
Yea, sure. Giving out guns to everyone like candy can't be dumb. And I'm not just talking about handgunds but assault rifles and stuff, hey why not RPG when we're at it? And shooting bad guys is good, but not so smart when you shoot your wife when she went to the john. Or when your kid plays with it and shoots himself in the balls.

Last edited by Nehil (2005-11-28 12:18:56)

FeloniousMonk
Member
+0|7006

Nehil wrote:

Yea, sure. Giving out guns to everyone like candy can't be dumb. And I'm not just talking about handgunds but assault rifles and stuff, hey why not RPG when we're at it? And shooting bad guys is good, but not so smart when you shoot your wife when she went to the john. Or when your kid plays with it and shoots himself in the balls.
First of all, no one's giving out guns. A decent handgun is a few hundred dollars at any local gun store, a good rifle at least twice that much. Secondly, it's not dumb to arm responsible, law abiding citizens because the only people that ever need to fear them are criminals.

Why would someone shoot their wife in the bathroom? Accidentally? Accidental discharges are due to irresponsibility. No child of mine could ever shoot himself with my gun. Ever. My dad, a cop for a large part of my childhood, kept a wide variety of guns in the house. Not only were they all locked up and secure (with the exception of the sniper rifle he used in Desert Storm which was on the wall, unloaded, and with the firing pin removed) but my sisters and I were all taught from a very young age to never touch a firearm under any circumstances. If a child shoots himself with his dad's gun the fault lies in the irresponsible parent, not the gun and certainly not with me.
Swiftekho
Member
+0|7023
All these people say things such as "you should help people and not ask for repayment" is a load of shit... I bet if they saw a homeless person they would walk right pass them and not help them out one bit.

Also, not to be cruel to everyone in Europe, but back in the 1800's when they colonized Africa and took a bunch of gold, diamonds, other really valuable stuff, and then divided up all the land and left, they non-intentionally screwed Africa up. Families went to war against each other because they lived on different sides of an imaginary line drawn by Europeans. Then the Europeans left Africa and never taught the Africans how to live on their own... That screwed them up. So now, everyone gets pissed at the U.S. for not helping.... No, I think the Europeans need to fix Africa. Plus, the British, the French, and the innocent Germans, from WWII need to remember that the U.S. saved the world's ass from the Axis of Evil.
j-bass
Member
+1|7010|Seattle

Swiftekho wrote:

All these people say things such as "you should help people and not ask for repayment" is a load of shit... I bet if they saw a homeless person they would walk right pass them and not help them out one bit.

Also, not to be cruel to everyone in Europe, but back in the 1800's when they colonized Africa and took a bunch of gold, diamonds, other really valuable stuff, and then divided up all the land and left, they non-intentionally screwed Africa up. Families went to war against each other because they lived on different sides of an imaginary line drawn by Europeans. Then the Europeans left Africa and never taught the Africans how to live on their own... That screwed them up. So now, everyone gets pissed at the U.S. for not helping.... No, I think the Europeans need to fix Africa. Plus, the British, the French, and the innocent Germans, from WWII need to remember that the U.S. saved the world's ass from the Axis of Evil.
Hell yes!  Now that's back on point.
Nehil
Member
+3|7002|South Sweden (NOT SWITZERLAND)

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Nehil wrote:

Yea, sure. Giving out guns to everyone like candy can't be dumb. And I'm not just talking about handgunds but assault rifles and stuff, hey why not RPG when we're at it? And shooting bad guys is good, but not so smart when you shoot your wife when she went to the john. Or when your kid plays with it and shoots himself in the balls.
First of all, no one's giving out guns. A decent handgun is a few hundred dollars at any local gun store, a good rifle at least twice that much. Secondly, it's not dumb to arm responsible, law abiding citizens because the only people that ever need to fear them are criminals.

Why would someone shoot their wife in the bathroom? Accidentally? Accidental discharges are due to irresponsibility. No child of mine could ever shoot himself with my gun. Ever. My dad, a cop for a large part of my childhood, kept a wide variety of guns in the house. Not only were they all locked up and secure (with the exception of the sniper rifle he used in Desert Storm which was on the wall, unloaded, and with the firing pin removed) but my sisters and I were all taught from a very young age to never touch a firearm under any circumstances. If a child shoots himself with his dad's gun the fault lies in the irresponsible parent, not the gun and certainly not with me.
Nah I'm not saying anyones handing aout guns of any sort, but it's very easy to get hold of them in the US. And I ment shooting your wife when she woke up in the middle of the night and you mistake her for a burglar. Wouldn't it be better if guns were banned? A total ban, all guns would be confiscated. You dad seems to be a nice and responsible man. But I would never put something that I did use to kill someone on the wall, that's just crazy, how can you be proud of hurting another human, it doesn't matter under what circumstances. Even if I would hurt someone in self defense, I would feel like shit.
FeloniousMonk
Member
+0|7006

Nehil wrote:

Nah I'm not saying anyones handing aout guns of any sort, but it's very easy to get hold of them in the US. And I ment shooting your wife when she woke up in the middle of the night and you mistake her for a burglar.
It's easier to get them illegally than legally. To purchase a gun in Illinois I have to obtain an FOID card which takes at least a month if not longer to arrive from Springfield, pass a background check, and then deal with a waiting period. Or I could go to downtown Chicago and buy a stolen gun for half the price in about an hour. For some reason criminals don't seem to want to obey gun control laws....strange, huh?

Hate to burst your bubble but a gun owner shooting his wife in the middle of the night is a ridiculously rare occurance. Perhaps you haven't noticed my frequent use of the word "responsible" when I speak of gun owners. For the record, here are the four crucial safety rules that any responsible gun owner etches into his brain and religiously practices.

http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/safetyrules.html wrote:

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
So no, a responsible gun owner would not accidentally shoot his wife in the middle of the night - at least not in this country. Resonsible gun owners tend to take pride in their strict adherence to these rules.

Wouldn't it be better if guns were banned? A total ban, all guns would be confiscated. You dad seems to be a nice and responsible man. But I would never put something that I did use to kill someone on the wall, that's just crazy, how can you be proud of hurting another human, it doesn't matter under what circumstances.
What would happen if all guns were banned?

1. I assume you'd still want police and military folk to be armed, otherwise you'd have a hard time fighting off an enemy force. In which case, you've disarmed the people and left them without the ability to fend off a potentially tyrannical government. Couldn't possibly happen, you say? That's what the people in Germany, Russia, Cambodia, and Iraq figured as well. We all see how wrong they were.

2. I've stated this many times: you cannot uninvent the gun. They are not very complex machines; unless you ban the knowledge of internal combustion it will always, always, always, always be possible for someone to construct their own gun. Long before there were massive machines that formed the guns we use today people made them by hand and they can sure as hell do it again.

There are half a billion guns on this planet and, being the simple machines that they are, can all last decades if not centuries (as some have) with proper care and maintenance. Do you really think that every single gun owner in the world, including the criminals, will just hand over their firearms and leave themselves utterly defenseless against the really bad people of the world? Do you think that banning guns will stop people from commiting murder or rape? All it will do is leave those people who could potentially defend themselves against those criminals without a proper means to do so.

Yes, my father was a very responsible man. Eight years as an Army Ranger and later in the Special Forces (teaching people in other countries how to use guns to properly defend against tyrannical governments) and over a decade on the SWAT team of a major police department will do that. How was he proud of his sniper rifle? Because that weapon in my father's hands saved the lives of countless American lives in Desert Storm and quite a few conflicts in the 80s. His actions, his "hunting" of other human beings, were part of war. War isn't pretty, it was never meant to be. Snipers are the first line of defense in any armed conflict and their jobs are to preserve lives with their ability to take out strategic targets and personnel. Believe me, this game doesn't come close to showing you what military snipers do in real life. Not to mention that as a sniper for the police department he saved the lives of many innocent civilians and victims by being able to eliminate threats with a single shot.

Snipers save lives, no question about it. That's why he was proud of it.


Even if I would hurt someone in self defense, I would feel like shit.
I'm sorry but I find that unnatural. Why on earth would you ever feel remorse for defending yourself against someone who's only intention is to harm you or your family?
FeloniousMonk
Member
+0|7006

Swiftekho wrote:

No, I think the Europeans need to fix Africa. Plus, the British, the French, and the innocent Germans, from WWII need to remember that the U.S. saved the world's ass from the Axis of Evil.
Don't forget that the Europeans are largely responsible for drawing the national borders in the middle east, grouping many different sects that vehemently hate each other. In many ways the UK is partly to blame for the US having to oust Saddam in the first place.

Oh, and on that same note of remembering past alliances, don't forget that the French helped out the colonies during the revolutionary war and it would have failed miserably without their help. There's a reason General LaFayette has so many places named after him.
freebirdpat
Base Rapist
+5|7024

Nehil wrote:

Nah I'm not saying anyones handing aout guns of any sort, but it's very easy to get hold of them in the US. And I ment shooting your wife when she woke up in the middle of the night and you mistake her for a burglar. Wouldn't it be better if guns were banned? A total ban, all guns would be confiscated. You dad seems to be a nice and responsible man. But I would never put something that I did use to kill someone on the wall, that's just crazy, how can you be proud of hurting another human, it doesn't matter under what circumstances. Even if I would hurt someone in self defense, I would feel like shit.
See you don't see the problem. The problem is not guns or ownership of guns. Banning guns is not SOLVING the problem. Its like banning a food because if it isn't prepared properly, then that food could kill you.

Hitler knew the problem of guns within a population which is why he confiscated them.

America knows the problem of an armed populace in Iraq. Seriously look at how a small rebel group could cause so many problems with just the basics. Having a highly armed populace is a good deterrent for any invasion. You may say that no country could or would invade or has the military power to. But the thing is you can't wait for a threat to present itself and then drop a huge responsiblity like a gun on a citizen. And if and when a country became threatening to the US, my bets are on citizens would start organizing militas again. And citizens in a place being invaded could cause just as many problems as the military would be.

Sweden, Finland, Norway and even Israel, all have a decent amount of ownership of guns, yet none of them have the murder rate of the US. Now why is that? I am actually surprised by the gun ownership in the Norweigian countries and the low rate of crime, myself.

And your example is flawed. Cases like that are VERY rare. And this is a similar case: According to one site, there has been only one case of someone shooting someone with a handgun with a concealed carry permit, which means he was legally carrying a handgun, anyone else in that situation would be already doing something illegal. And the guy with the concealed carry and handgun that shot someone, well that case was ruled as legitimate self-defense.

You may feel like shit for hurting someone in self-defense. Thats your problem. If someone is physically threatening me, and threatening my right to live, well that person has forfeited all compassion I might have had for that person at that moment. When that person no longer becomes a threat, then I might feel bad, but I won't feel bad for an idiot being an idiot. And just a note, if I ever had to shoot someone, and immediately after I was physically safe and unthreatened. I would call the ambulance and police, to hopefully have the guy that I shot some medical attention, so that maybe the right to live for him will continue.

And its easy to get guns pretty much everywhere if you have the right contacts. And the US it is not easy to get some guns, handguns require a wait time I think depending on state and federal rules, and you have to fill out a bunch of paperwork for guns.

Personally I think we should take guns off the military and government, those two killed more people in the 20th century then anything else.
freebirdpat
Base Rapist
+5|7024

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Swiftekho wrote:

No, I think the Europeans need to fix Africa. Plus, the British, the French, and the innocent Germans, from WWII need to remember that the U.S. saved the world's ass from the Axis of Evil.
Don't forget that the Europeans are largely responsible for drawing the national borders in the middle east, grouping many different sects that vehemently hate each other. In many ways the UK is partly to blame for the US having to oust Saddam in the first place.

Oh, and on that same note of remembering past alliances, don't forget that the French helped out the colonies during the revolutionary war and it would have failed miserably without their help. There's a reason General LaFayette has so many places named after him.
And Europe during the Cold War, and still partly today, did not have to pay for nearly the amount of military as the US did, because we were the security of Europe, because of NATO. Only today are we removing our bases on the European front since we have found Russia is no longer a threat, and there is the fact that they don't think they need us. Which is fine with me.
freebirdpat
Base Rapist
+5|7024
Oh and another note: I watched the Discovery Times channel today, and they have a program called "Thomas L. Friedman Reporting" It has always been a great program, its a reporter on the issue at hand and taking a look at all the facets of a single topic, and not sitting and talking to one person like a politician, but with the people too.

The programs topic was "Does Europe hate us?" It made lots of several interesting points on the topic.

Also, wasn't it the Europeans that were exploiting the Oil for Food program that the UN created? I think most of the problems with the US being considered this military giant is because we do the jobs that for the most should be fixed by the UN long before we even have to consider invading. The UN is ineffective for what it should be doing imho.
Nehil
Member
+3|7002|South Sweden (NOT SWITZERLAND)

FeloniousMonk wrote:

Words
Well I know getting a gun legally is still kind of hard from your point of view. But here in Sweden I don't know a single person who owns a gun. Neither do I know anyone who has been shot/killed/raped/robbed. Strange huh?
But getting a gun illegaly here is not either easy cuse nobody has any. But getting a gun that way is extraordinary easy (comparing to other countrys) in the US.

Yes, cops may need guns I realize that. But the public dosen't THERE IS NO RISK OF MY GOVERNMENT trying to take fascist control of my country. Why? Becuse all the military leaders are not in love with our politicians. In this case it's a good thing.

And would you uninvent the gun if you could? I sure as hell would.

Well ok, I guess that he can put his weapon on the wall if he thinks of it that way (saving lives). But if you think about the war the way I do you'd realize that the war was not necessary and thus he killed those people without any rights. Murder from my point of view. But I'm not saying your father is a murder, I guess he did it becuse he was orderd to.

And about me feeling compassion for all living things may sound unnatural for you, but I don't see any way of explaining it to you. If you don't think so from the beginning there's no big chance of you ever thinking like that. But it's something like I don't have the right to ever hurt anyone even if that person hurts me or anyone. Two wrongs dosen't make it right. To feel this way you'd have to be some crazy lefty or worse. But would it not be better if everyone felt this way? Then nobody would ever hurt anyone. A fucking utopia.
FeloniousMonk
Member
+0|7006

Nehil wrote:

Well I know getting a gun legally is still kind of hard from your point of view. But here in Sweden I don't know a single person who owns a gun. Neither do I know anyone who has been shot/killed/raped/robbed. Strange huh?
But getting a gun illegaly here is not either easy cuse nobody has any. But getting a gun that way is extraordinary easy (comparing to other countrys) in the US.
Outside of the military or law enforcement, I also don't know anyone that has been shot, killed, or robbed. Raped, yes, and the last thing I would ever tell a woman that's been raped is "No, you're not allowed to defend yourself against men like that."

Yes, cops may need guns I realize that. But the public dosen't THERE IS NO RISK OF MY GOVERNMENT trying to take fascist control of my country. Why? Becuse all the military leaders are not in love with our politicians. In this case it's a good thing.
You don't know that. The chances are highly unlikely but neither one of us can predict the future and you have no idea who will be running your government in ten years. The chances of my government doing that is very slim because of our rights to own guns.
And would you uninvent the gun if you could? I sure as hell would.
It would happen eventually. Would you uninvent the sword? The knife? The spear? Would you univent any of the tools that have solidified humanity's dominance on earth? You think that even if we could uninvent the gun that it would stop war and violence? Bows and arrows would still exist as would all sorts of melee weapons. Would you want to strip people of their ability to fight in any way? Forbid any form of martial arts?

I wouldn't uninvent the gun because guns are better equalizers than anything else. They allow people who would otherwise be unable to defend themselves to do so.

Well ok, I guess that he can put his weapon on the wall if he thinks of it that way (saving lives). But if you think about the war the way I do you'd realize that the war was not necessary and thus he killed those people without any rights. Murder from my point of view. But I'm not saying your father is a murder, I guess he did it becuse he was orderd to.
Desert Storm was unnecessary? Regardless of your views on the current war in Iraq I don't see how anyone could claim that defending a nation from being slaughtered by a ruthless tyrant was unnecessary. Kuwait would've been destroyed and everyone living there would've been murdered or enslaved.

Right? In war? Are you serious? Do you understand what war is? The Geneva Conventions and all rules of engagement don't have to apply. War is not fun, it's not glamorous, it's not honorable.Yes, he did what he did because he was ordered to but he chose his field because he knew that lives were spared by his actions. In the course of law enforcement it's undeniable that lives were saved when he killed criminals that posed threats to the safety of innocent bystanders.

And about me feeling compassion for all living things may sound unnatural for you, but I don't see any way of explaining it to you. If you don't think so from the beginning there's no big chance of you ever thinking like that. But it's something like I don't have the right to ever hurt anyone even if that person hurts me or anyone. Two wrongs dosen't make it right. To feel this way you'd have to be some crazy lefty or worse. But would it not be better if everyone felt this way? Then nobody would ever hurt anyone. A fucking utopia.
There's nothing wrong with feeling compassion for all living things around you but it just seems strange to me to not place your life and the lives of your family over the lives of people who would cause you harm. I just don't see how you can view self defense as a "wrong".

You seem to have this idea that deep down human beings are kind, peaceful, loving creatures. Sorry to burst your bubble but we're not. We're still animals, we're still violent, we're still going to fight over territory. We're not special or blessed or in any way capable of living outside the realm of nature that brought us into being. That utopia will never happen unless you eliminate the one true source of crime: human beings.
Nehil
Member
+3|7002|South Sweden (NOT SWITZERLAND)
Well first, I probably would uninvent all weapons meant to hurt people, like guns and swords. Spears,knifes and bows were ment to hunt with. You could keep them I guess.

Sorry I didn't know Operation Desert Storm was during the Gulfwar. I'm not that into the diffrent operations and where they took place. The Gulf war was probably more justified and then the war now.

FeloniousMonk wrote:

The Geneva Conventions and all rules of engagement don't have to apply.
They do have to apply, if you broke them then that's maybe why alot of people are pissed off, that you didn't care about the Geneva convention during the war.

Also, humans are animals and will always bee unless we evolve to trees. And you're right, I think that deep down all humans are kind, peaceful, loving creatures. I don't think I said that self defense is wrong, but would you feel good after kicking the shit out of some poor guy robbing you on the street? Maybe it's not the "self defense" part that bothers me but that this man has to earn money this way. Don't burst my bubble. Sometimes I feel like shit when I watch the news but I still dare to belive in mankind, we just need time.
FeloniousMonk
Member
+0|7006
I can't hunt with guns?

No, the "rules" of war go right out the window when the enemy doesn't care about them. At the end of a war the only thing that truly matters is who survived.

"Earn" money the hard way? Stealing is not earning. I wouldn't feel bad about breaking his arm while he was trying to rob me but I certainly wouldn't hurt him any more than I saw fit to eliminate the threat.

Are you religious? I'm not being condescending, it's just that your views on humanity are typical with religious folk. They tend to believe in the goodness of humanity and all that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that people are bad. I know that the majority of the people out there are good and have no problem getting along. The problem is that there will always be that select few that wants to rob, kill, rape, or enslave others.

Last edited by FeloniousMonk (2005-12-04 10:23:30)

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