LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|6721|Kirkland, WA
This has always puzzled me. Why do so many servers make it a point not to enter or attack uncaps unless you're spec ops? On any given map where a team has an uncap that team automatically has a HUGE advantage over the defending team without an uncap. The defending team has the potential to lose all their flags so it only seems fair that they should be able to prolong or distract the invasion of their CP's by attacking the uncaps when necessary.

I can understand the validity of this rule as it applies to carriers because it becomes nearly impossible to get off the carrier if your team is unsuccessful at getting or keeping additional flags in the first few minutes of the round but in all other cases there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get out of the uncap. I'd much rather be on a bad team that has an uncap but can't get bases than a bad team that doesn't have an uncap and can't hold onto bases.

To a large extent the root of the problem is that Dice designed several maps that give one team uncaps and not the other. Usually, this can be offset by playing the map for 2 rounds and alternating teams, but it still doesn't adequately address the issue since not all servers play each map for 2 rounds with a team swap between each round. What is the logic behind not allowing attacking of uncaps? I'm not talking about spawn killing, just attacking, destroying, and stealing assets.

It seems that servers are split 50/50 concerning this rule so I tend to play on the servers that don't employ this rule, but as a matter of curiosity I'd like to understand why admins use this rule at all.
.:ronin:.|Patton
Respekct dad i love u always
+946|6809|Marathon, Florida Keys
because there fairies.
https://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g117/patton1337/stats.jpg
ECH
Member
+50|6643|Some where near you
You must be joking.  However, the punch line is not a page long.

Do you want a solution?  Make both sides capable (no base rape) or both un capable (no base rape)
1

Last edited by ECH (2006-11-03 13:53:26)

elite.mafia
Banned
+122|6453|USA
I play on a kubra dam server [CMx] and attacking uncaps is allowed. Which is why I play there - no jets to worry about, all they are doing is baseraping the enemies jets
keimtime
Member
+18|6393|Nebraska, USA
I can see a point to why they don't want you attack uncaps.  Basically, the team that has no has no uncap usually still has the advantage to begin with anyway as they normally already have control of all of the other flags.  That means that the team with the uncap has their pick of flags to try to capture.  In most situations, there is enough attacking/defending of flags other then uncaps, going on that it isn't really necessary to try attack the uncap.  (Unless, of course, you are destroying assests, which is why they say Spec Ops are the exception.) However, if you read most of the rules of those servers, many of them put in the "unless all other flags are captured" statement.  That way if the game is half over and the team with the uncap has still not managed to overtake any other points, then let em have it.  I do agree that in most cases, the team with the uncap may have a slight advantage but I am sure we have all been pinned down in an uncap with the enemy on all sides of us and wishing that the game would just end rather than being arty bait.
turkeybacon
Member
+50|6445|Dragon Valley

LG-MindBullets wrote:

This has always puzzled me. Why do so many servers make it a point not to enter or attack uncaps unless you're spec ops? On any given map where a team has an uncap that team automatically has a HUGE advantage over the defending team without an uncap. The defending team has the potential to lose all their flags so it only seems fair that they should be able to prolong or distract the invasion of their CP's by attacking the uncaps when necessary.

I can understand the validity of this rule as it applies to carriers because it becomes nearly impossible to get off the carrier if your team is unsuccessful at getting or keeping additional flags in the first few minutes of the round but in all other cases there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get out of the uncap. I'd much rather be on a bad team that has an uncap but can't get bases than a bad team that doesn't have an uncap and can't hold onto bases.

To a large extent the root of the problem is that Dice designed several maps that give one team uncaps and not the other. Usually, this can be offset by playing the map for 2 rounds and alternating teams, but it still doesn't adequately address the issue since not all servers play each map for 2 rounds with a team swap between each round. What is the logic behind not allowing attacking of uncaps? I'm not talking about spawn killing, just attacking, destroying, and stealing assets.

It seems that servers are split 50/50 concerning this rule so I tend to play on the servers that don't employ this rule, but as a matter of curiosity I'd like to understand why admins use this rule at all.
Agreed 100%

I hate when I'm on a carrier and 100 noob teammates are standing on the deck, waiting to get slaughtered. God forbid they actually jump in an ESSEX and shoot down some jets......
killer21
Because f*ck you that's why.
+400|6590|Reisterstown, MD

A lot of servers I have visited lately have the ghey rule of "Please don't attack the uncap or spawn camp".  I usually do it anyway and usually gets the boot for my action.  This rule screams "Please protect me with rules so that I don't get my ass wh00ped".  Seriously, people who rely on rules such as no attack uncap/spawn camping are rookies who can't kill unless they have rules to protect them.  I laugh at these people and find another server to rape. Matter of fact, happen to me and a couple of my squad mates earlier today.
VicktorVauhn
Member
+319|6392|Southern California

keimtime wrote:

... but I am sure we have all been pinned down in an uncap with the enemy on all sides of us and wishing that the game would just end rather than being arty bait.
And this is exactly why, getting pinned down in a base sucks ass and just isn't fun....

Maybe me and my team are "to big of noobs to defend our base" But its a video game, and people play it for fun....It sucks to loose a whole round because people are more concerened with getting easy spawn kills then doing what they are supposed to: capturing flags.

The reason the servers dont permit it is because so many players dont enjoy getting raped at a base that cant even be captured.

I think the real question is why don't people just play a different servre instead of bitching about the rules....Why would you want to be on a "noob" server anyways? Do you have to cheat to kill newbs so you can brag about it on the internets?

Last edited by VicktorVauhn (2006-11-03 15:05:54)

latinolink
plop plop flop flop
+11|6656|west liberty IA
to put things simple some servers help newbs by giving them a chance or else they start to leave if there team isnt capable of doing somthing. So in other words is that they dont want the sever to be empty because people spawn kill at the uncap.
Recoil555
A God Amongst Men
+26|6452|UK
Yeh 100 % agree i see Bf2 as a game that if your good at your  spawn raper essentially whether it be uncappable or cappable. If a enemy spawns in front of you do you:

A. let him run abit and see what hes saying.
or
B. blow the fuck out of him before he can do anything.

i know what i would do. ;p

As for carriers , i dont know i play IO city maps.
T1g3r217
Perpetual
+124|6422|My room
Just spawn at a different place...common sense, DUH!!!
the17doctor
Member
+2|6389

T1g3r217 wrote:

Just spawn at a different place...common sense, DUH!!!
even if that is the only spawn point available.



it is the most annoying thing though, spawning, and before having a chance to see where you've spawned and whats around you, you're already dead, again.


also, it dosnt take much skill to spawn kill, as most people cant get a shot on people like this.
manitobapaintballa
Member
+32|6618
funny things about uncaps is they got defences for a reason use them
=Karma-Kills=
"Don't post while intoxicated."
+356|6584|England
JOOOS N00B5 DUNT JOOUU Und3R5t4ND ZAT R3d S70P s1gN = PAZZ H3r3 N g37 B4Z0R3DDD!!! OHHHH NO3ZZZZZZ
PspRpg-7
-
+961|6698

They're pussies.
Ryan
Member
+1,230|6843|Alberta, Canada

Because it's very annoying when you spawn and get killed. You can't even get out of your uncap without dying. The round ends and the camping team wins.
..teddy..jimmy
Member
+1,393|6649
Basically you cant attack uncaps to make it more fun
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6491|Northern California
If you're on Jalalabad, and MEC is closing in around the USMC uncap base, it gets very intense, there's alot of killing on both sides (and points) so it can be fine to base rape.  Sure the USMC gets in this situation alot in my experience and that's because of poor map design.

But depending on the people playing, this may become undesirable and then prohibited..causing mec to hold at the hills...giving USMC a little needed help. 

The point of not raping uncaps is more to keep players on your server.  If people are getting pissed at being spawn raped over and over, they'll leave.  Then it'll be hard to resume a full server.
turkeybacon
Member
+50|6445|Dragon Valley

ryan_14 wrote:

Because it's very annoying when you spawn and get killed. You can't even get out of your uncap without dying. The round ends and the camping team wins.
Its also very annoying when I get killed. There should be a rule where you cant kill me, because I find it very annoying.
LG-MindBullets
Member
+10|6721|Kirkland, WA

the17doctor wrote:

also, it dosnt take much skill to spawn kill, as most people cant get a shot on people like this.
I wasn't actually refering to spawn killing in the technical sense where you sit and wait for someone to spawn in right in front of your crosshairs. Kicking people who do that should be left to a vote or the admins.

In general though, there are some situations where it's necessary to invade an uncap.

For example: On Sharqi Peninsula I'll often play on a USMC team that just can't hold onto bases and the city entrance is the only remaining CP under USMC control. In order to allow the USMC to advance on other flags without worrying about losing the City Entrance from the rear it's a good strategy to have a couple guys stay behind and attack the uncap to prevent MEC from getting out of their base and taking the city entrance.

Another scenario for the same map is when the USMC only has the Construction Site or the Hotel and you need to get another CP. MEC is roving around in their LAV and Tank they stole from the TV Station making it difficult to capture a flag solo. Often it's necessary to go into MEC's main uncap and steal their tank so you can go take City Entrance, Survailence Post, or the Alley Way.

Karkand and Jalalabad have similar issues.
killer21
Because f*ck you that's why.
+400|6590|Reisterstown, MD

I see some tears in this thread.
ECH
Member
+50|6643|Some where near you

T1g3r217 wrote:

Just spawn at a different place...common sense, DUH!!!
Only nubes say that when there is no other spawn point
ECH
Member
+50|6643|Some where near you

manitobapaintballa wrote:

funny things about uncaps is they got defences for a reason use them
1 SAM site?  You call that a defense?  A place where they know if a missle is launched they can kill them before the sam reloads...easy kill.

Last edited by ECH (2006-11-03 19:37:24)

Rick_O_Shea678
Angry Engy
+95|6753
Good points, LG-MindBullets.  It's no fun to get killed as soon as you spawn, and that's why the rule.  (And this GAME is supposed to be fun; it's a game, it's not really war, friends.)  But like you I wonder about drawing a line between the carrier and non-carrier maps? 

I think the only time I ever disagreed with an admin boot (other than child-admins, another story) was when an MEC sniper was banned early in a Kubra game.  There were alternatives to spawning in front of him three times in a row, LOL.  And I thought that if he was willing to put in the effort to trek the whole map and find a lay-down place...with the very real possibility that no one would spawn in front of him for five minutes...my opinion was he should have been allowed to stay.
adv3rsary
Member
+28|6715
some maps.. ie dragon valley.. it's only fair that way... some maps.. it doesnt matter. if you dont like the rule on a server leave it.. dont feel free to break it. you ll annoy people, get kicked/banned/shunned/shot/spit on/etc.... so love it or leave it is the advice.. as far as why... the admins are paying for the server; they can put whatever rule their hearts desire on it .. until you're shelling out cash for the server you have no right to whine about its rules

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