"Education -- if you make the most of it and you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well," said Kerry, a Massachusetts Democrat. "If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
The logic of his statement is: if A, then B. Where A is being stupid, and B is ending up in Iraq.
It is a fallacy to assume this implies that the logic: if B, then A is a corrolary, it is not. Kerry did not call troops in Iraq stupid, he called stupid people prospective troops. This statement holds through many examples, such as the professions of law and medicine, both of which require a large amount of schooling. A doctor or lawyer who is making 100k a year is not going to forgoe that income for 30k a year and the satisfaction gained by 'defending your country'.
Further defense that 'if B, then A' does not follow can be found in the increased financial capabilities of a person enlisted in the military to attend college.
In other words, take the stick out your ass.
It is a fallacy to assume this implies that the logic: if B, then A is a corrolary, it is not. Kerry did not call troops in Iraq stupid, he called stupid people prospective troops. This statement holds through many examples, such as the professions of law and medicine, both of which require a large amount of schooling. A doctor or lawyer who is making 100k a year is not going to forgoe that income for 30k a year and the satisfaction gained by 'defending your country'.
Further defense that 'if B, then A' does not follow can be found in the increased financial capabilities of a person enlisted in the military to attend college.
In other words, take the stick out your ass.
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Im gonna mention it in every thread about this.
I was there!!!! yeah, my school is on the news. GO LANCERS!!!!
I was there!!!! yeah, my school is on the news. GO LANCERS!!!!
Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-11-01 17:08:39)
It sure wasn't a smart thing to say. The first lesson in politics is "Don't say anything that can be recorded, quoted, or remembered."
Yes there are no military doctors or lawyers... maybe the stick is making me smart because when I was in the service I knew doctors and lawyers that were active duty. Most were there for experience, but they were there just the same.jonsimon wrote:
Kerry did not call troops in Iraq stupid, he called stupid people prospective troops. This statement holds through many examples, such as the professions of law and medicine, both of which require a large amount of schooling. A doctor or lawyer who is making 100k a year is not going to forgoe that income for 30k a year and the satisfaction gained by 'defending your country'.
Further defense that 'if B, then A' does not follow can be found in the increased financial capabilities of a person enlisted in the military to attend college.
In other words, take the stick out your ass.
And I also know a lot of stupid people (a lot right here in these forums obviously) that aren't in the military, and will never be. Logic has failed you, maybe you should consider the military LOL!!!
Oh? And they all made large salaries? Otherwise you're not addressing all the hypothises postulated in my example, and the conclusion may not follow. Idiot. Maybe you should learn some logic.silo1180 wrote:
Yes there are no military doctors or lawyers... maybe the stick is making me smart because when I was in the service I knew doctors and lawyers that were active duty. Most were there for experience, but they were there just the same.jonsimon wrote:
Kerry did not call troops in Iraq stupid, he called stupid people prospective troops. This statement holds through many examples, such as the professions of law and medicine, both of which require a large amount of schooling. A doctor or lawyer who is making 100k a year is not going to forgoe that income for 30k a year and the satisfaction gained by 'defending your country'.
Further defense that 'if B, then A' does not follow can be found in the increased financial capabilities of a person enlisted in the military to attend college.
In other words, take the stick out your ass.
And I also know a lot of stupid people (a lot right here in these forums obviously) that aren't in the military, and will never be. Logic has failed you, maybe you should consider the military LOL!!!
I liked the photo. I wanted to post the photo. I didn't want to tack it onto just another thread. thankyouverymuch.IRONCHEF wrote:
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They were officers, but they were not making nearly what a doctor or lawyer as a civilian could make. So yes they did "forgo" (learn to use a dictionary if you are going to use big words) the big income to serve their country.jonsimon wrote:
Oh? And they all made large salaries? Otherwise you're not addressing all the hypothises postulated in my example, and the conclusion may not follow. Idiot. Maybe you should learn some logic.silo1180 wrote:
Yes there are no military doctors or lawyers... maybe the stick is making me smart because when I was in the service I knew doctors and lawyers that were active duty. Most were there for experience, but they were there just the same.jonsimon wrote:
Kerry did not call troops in Iraq stupid, he called stupid people prospective troops. This statement holds through many examples, such as the professions of law and medicine, both of which require a large amount of schooling. A doctor or lawyer who is making 100k a year is not going to forgoe that income for 30k a year and the satisfaction gained by 'defending your country'.
Further defense that 'if B, then A' does not follow can be found in the increased financial capabilities of a person enlisted in the military to attend college.
In other words, take the stick out your ass.
And I also know a lot of stupid people (a lot right here in these forums obviously) that aren't in the military, and will never be. Logic has failed you, maybe you should consider the military LOL!!!
It's called sacrifice, and it's something you obviously have no concept of.
They haven't sacrificed anything if they weren't working with that salary, or had an offer at that rate, before enlisting. And forgo isn't a big word, its five letters.silo1180 wrote:
They were officers, but they were not making nearly what a doctor or lawyer as a civilian could make. So yes they did "forgo" (learn to use a dictionary if you are going to use big words) the big income to serve their country.jonsimon wrote:
Oh? And they all made large salaries? Otherwise you're not addressing all the hypothises postulated in my example, and the conclusion may not follow. Idiot. Maybe you should learn some logic.silo1180 wrote:
Yes there are no military doctors or lawyers... maybe the stick is making me smart because when I was in the service I knew doctors and lawyers that were active duty. Most were there for experience, but they were there just the same.
And I also know a lot of stupid people (a lot right here in these forums obviously) that aren't in the military, and will never be. Logic has failed you, maybe you should consider the military LOL!!!
It's called sacrifice, and it's something you obviously have no concept of.
i pretty much dont agree with your posts man, but i stay quiet for the most part. but I think you are WAR off touch withjonsimon wrote:
The logic of his statement is: if A, then B. Where A is being stupid, and B is ending up in Iraq.
It is a fallacy to assume this implies that the logic: if B, then A is a corrolary, it is not. Kerry did not call troops in Iraq stupid, he called stupid people prospective troops. This statement holds through many examples, such as the professions of law and medicine, both of which require a large amount of schooling. A doctor or lawyer who is making 100k a year is not going to forgoe that income for 30k a year and the satisfaction gained by 'defending your country'.
Further defense that 'if B, then A' does not follow can be found in the increased financial capabilities of a person enlisted in the military to attend college.
In other words, take the stick out your ass.
1. What kerry meant, i took it as a rip on bush. not at the troops. it just came out that way
2. and you are most certainly incorrect about your doctors/lawyers statement
i Fukin hate him
1. I don't know the context of it, and I don't defend it explicitly. It was a dumb thing to say, I just don't like it when people try to exaggerate the logic.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
i pretty much dont agree with your posts man, but i stay quiet for the most part. but I think you are WAR off touch withjonsimon wrote:
The logic of his statement is: if A, then B. Where A is being stupid, and B is ending up in Iraq.
It is a fallacy to assume this implies that the logic: if B, then A is a corrolary, it is not. Kerry did not call troops in Iraq stupid, he called stupid people prospective troops. This statement holds through many examples, such as the professions of law and medicine, both of which require a large amount of schooling. A doctor or lawyer who is making 100k a year is not going to forgoe that income for 30k a year and the satisfaction gained by 'defending your country'.
Further defense that 'if B, then A' does not follow can be found in the increased financial capabilities of a person enlisted in the military to attend college.
In other words, take the stick out your ass.
1. What kerry meant, i took it as a rip on bush. not at the troops. it just came out that way
2. and you are most certainly incorrect about your doctors/lawyers statement
2. I'm not incorrect until anyone can give me an example of a man giving up a 100k salary for the military. I understand there are many intelligent lawyers and doctors in the military, but I highly doubt any of them were giving up extremely well paying jobs to be there.
I thought with a liberal, money wasn't everything.jonsimon wrote:
Oh? And they all made large salaries? Otherwise you're not addressing all the hypothises postulated in my example, and the conclusion may not follow. Idiot. Maybe you should learn some logic.silo1180 wrote:
Yes there are no military doctors or lawyers... maybe the stick is making me smart because when I was in the service I knew doctors and lawyers that were active duty. Most were there for experience, but they were there just the same.jonsimon wrote:
Kerry did not call troops in Iraq stupid, he called stupid people prospective troops. This statement holds through many examples, such as the professions of law and medicine, both of which require a large amount of schooling. A doctor or lawyer who is making 100k a year is not going to forgoe that income for 30k a year and the satisfaction gained by 'defending your country'.
Further defense that 'if B, then A' does not follow can be found in the increased financial capabilities of a person enlisted in the military to attend college.
In other words, take the stick out your ass.
And I also know a lot of stupid people (a lot right here in these forums obviously) that aren't in the military, and will never be. Logic has failed you, maybe you should consider the military LOL!!!
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-11-01 17:54:01)
What was the name of that pro football guy who just died over there? He made WAY more than 100k/year
edit: Tillman.
edit: Tillman.
Last edited by King_County_Downy (2006-11-01 17:40:26)
Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it
well. I can give you personal examples. I knew a jag lawyer and he broke it down to me like this. They are closer to civilians than actual soldiers. Their chain of command doesnt get touched by anybody outside of the JAG corps. and they were lawyers before they decided to serve. they see a regular officers salary, which is good, but most jag lawyers ive seen were captains or below. no real room for advancing after that. but yeah man, ive known plenty a soldier who has served that could have been making WAY more money on the outside, and im inlcuding enlisted too.jonsimon wrote:
1. I don't know the context of it, and I don't defend it explicitly. It was a dumb thing to say, I just don't like it when people try to exaggerate the logic.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
i pretty much dont agree with your posts man, but i stay quiet for the most part. but I think you are WAR off touch withjonsimon wrote:
The logic of his statement is: if A, then B. Where A is being stupid, and B is ending up in Iraq.
It is a fallacy to assume this implies that the logic: if B, then A is a corrolary, it is not. Kerry did not call troops in Iraq stupid, he called stupid people prospective troops. This statement holds through many examples, such as the professions of law and medicine, both of which require a large amount of schooling. A doctor or lawyer who is making 100k a year is not going to forgoe that income for 30k a year and the satisfaction gained by 'defending your country'.
Further defense that 'if B, then A' does not follow can be found in the increased financial capabilities of a person enlisted in the military to attend college.
In other words, take the stick out your ass.
1. What kerry meant, i took it as a rip on bush. not at the troops. it just came out that way
2. and you are most certainly incorrect about your doctors/lawyers statement
2. I'm not incorrect until anyone can give me an example of a man giving up a 100k salary for the military. I understand there are many intelligent lawyers and doctors in the military, but I highly doubt any of them were giving up extremely well paying jobs to be there.
shiiet, I could have gone to college straight after school but I made the decision to be an infantry man when I was 6 years old. everybodies reasons for joining are different but once your in, the world doesnt look at you in too many different ways.
and a lot has been said about stupid people using the military as a last resort. just not true. Ive been going to community college for the last year and i could honestly say I have had to the misfortune to be around the dumbest lot of young people I have ever encountered in my life. The dumbest guy ive known in the army could run laps around someone who I would say had an average intelligence. then again, some people are different and better at certain things while others arent. Im dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to math.
and in order to elevate your rank from lower enlisted to senior enlisted (NCO'S) college course are encouraged and kinda mandatory if you ever wanna see SGM in less thatn 20 years
The Army was my first resort.
Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-11-01 17:50:11)
West Point sounds pretty damn cool to me. It's completely paid for, when you graduate you're immediately a 2nd lieutenant, and for after your service you've got a college degree. How the heck can you beat that?
I think John Kerry meant it as more of an insult to Bush - you know, if you get bad grades in high school, than instead of going to work at McDonalds, they end up joining the Army. I think people are completely misunderstanding him. He's criticizing the system. Not the soldiers. If he wanted to do that, he would've said "Soldiers in Iraq are high school dropouts". Yes, he slipped on the words, so it might've sounded odd, but people are trying to sell this for more than it's worth.
Oh........ and, well, one more thing, I find that picture to be offensive. I know it's probably their free time or something, but it makes me sick to think that those soldiers could've been saving someones life, or doing something constructive, rather than make themselves look like idiots by actually going out of the way to make a political statement. And, to a few New Englanders, they probably look like dumb rednecks.
I think John Kerry meant it as more of an insult to Bush - you know, if you get bad grades in high school, than instead of going to work at McDonalds, they end up joining the Army. I think people are completely misunderstanding him. He's criticizing the system. Not the soldiers. If he wanted to do that, he would've said "Soldiers in Iraq are high school dropouts". Yes, he slipped on the words, so it might've sounded odd, but people are trying to sell this for more than it's worth.
Oh........ and, well, one more thing, I find that picture to be offensive. I know it's probably their free time or something, but it makes me sick to think that those soldiers could've been saving someones life, or doing something constructive, rather than make themselves look like idiots by actually going out of the way to make a political statement. And, to a few New Englanders, they probably look like dumb rednecks.
Last edited by Spearhead (2006-11-01 18:40:30)
I just wanna say PAT TILLMAN !!! For jonsimon, who obviously thinks he's smarter than the rest of us, Pat Tillman gave up a very nice yearly salary to SERVE OUR COUNTRY!! He SERVED and GAVE HIS LIFE(along with countless others past and present) just so you can run your mouth on here.(but we also have that right) Also, in case you didn't know, you have to take an aptitude to even be considered for the military! So not just anyone can get in! (Insert mean joke about jonsimon failing aptitude test here) Also there is a spell check right below where you write your pointless ramblings, USE IT!!! Thats all I have to say about that, for now!!
R.I.P Pat Tillmanan_italian_marxman wrote:
I just wanna say PAT TILLMAN !!! For jonsimon, who obviously thinks he's smarter than the rest of us, Pat Tillman gave up a very nice yearly salary to SERVE OUR COUNTRY!! He SERVED and GAVE HIS LIFE(along with countless others past and present) just so you can run your mouth on here.(but we also have that right) Also, in case you didn't know, you have to take an aptitude to even be considered for the military! So not just anyone can get in! (Insert mean joke about jonsimon failing aptitude test here) Also there is a spell check right below where you write your pointless ramblings, USE IT!!! Thats all I have to say about that, for now!!
Malloy must go
Senator Kerry has achieved the rare feat of kicking his own ass while putting his foot in his mouth.
Well done. I hope this costs the Democrats many votes.
Well done. I hope this costs the Democrats many votes.
Im not easily offended so to me he (Kerry) is just a moron. I could see how people are angry and I dont agree with what he said but I think it was just a case of Ready, Fire, Aim ........with the mouth that is. He is still a douche bag before and after the comment. I think people need to be a little less sensitive.Spearhead wrote:
West Point sounds pretty damn cool to me. It's completely paid for, when you graduate you're immediately a 2nd lieutenant, and for after your service you've got a college degree. How the heck can you beat that?
I think John Kerry meant it as more of an insult to Bush - you know, if you get bad grades in high school, than instead of going to work at McDonalds, they end up joining the Army. I think people are completely misunderstanding him. He's criticizing the system. Not the soldiers. If he wanted to do that, he would've said "Soldiers in Iraq are high school dropouts". Yes, he slipped on the words, so it might've sounded odd, but people are trying to sell this for more than it's worth.
Malloy must go
i dont know about all that spearhead. they are most likely poges who dont leave the wire but in a support role. those guys got lots of time on their hands.Spearhead wrote:
West Point sounds pretty damn cool to me. It's completely paid for, when you graduate you're immediately a 2nd lieutenant, and for after your service you've got a college degree. How the heck can you beat that?
I think John Kerry meant it as more of an insult to Bush - you know, if you get bad grades in high school, than instead of going to work at McDonalds, they end up joining the Army. I think people are completely misunderstanding him. He's criticizing the system. Not the soldiers. If he wanted to do that, he would've said "Soldiers in Iraq are high school dropouts". Yes, he slipped on the words, so it might've sounded odd, but people are trying to sell this for more than it's worth.
Oh........ and, well, one more thing, I find that picture to be offensive. I know it's probably their free time or something, but it makes me sick to think that those soldiers could've been saving someones life, or doing something constructive, rather than make themselves look like idiots by actually going out of the way to make a political statement. And, to a few New Englanders, they probably look like dumb rednecks.
PAT TILLMAN you tool.jonsimon wrote:
[
2. I'm not incorrect until anyone can give me an example of a man giving up a 100k salary for the military. I understand there are many intelligent lawyers and doctors in the military, but I highly doubt any of them were giving up extremely well paying jobs to be there.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Hey! that's in my sig..G3|Genius wrote:
"Education -- if you make the most of it and you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well," said Kerry, a Massachusetts Democrat. "If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
http://www.drudgereport.com/irak.jpg
I think it comes down to this. A lot of people who join the military don't have many opportunities elsewhere. What Kerry said was a gross and rather stupid generalization. He could have articulated what he meant in a much better fashion, but because he didn't, Republicans are going to run with this one as much as the Democrats have with Mark Foley's stupidity.jonsimon wrote:
1. I don't know the context of it, and I don't defend it explicitly. It was a dumb thing to say, I just don't like it when people try to exaggerate the logic.
2. I'm not incorrect until anyone can give me an example of a man giving up a 100k salary for the military. I understand there are many intelligent lawyers and doctors in the military, but I highly doubt any of them were giving up extremely well paying jobs to be there.