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uziq
Member
+380|2258
considering how many rap acapellas there are already of aphex twin songs (see above 100 dBs project), it's not really creative to me, no. throwing two disparate things together is the whole trick of mash-ups, as i've pilloried above (ariana over sandstorm!) what's the great creative breakthrough here? the sole novelty of it resides in the ability to find two things that ordinarily aren't connected and to connect them. okay. so let's put corey taylor from slipknot's vocals over a miles davis song.

but is it good? why does it even need to exist? it's novelty listening, like putting pennies in a machine at the seaside and watching a mechanical organ grind through a ditty.

and jesus christ, calm down a little. you're talking about the art of collage and now invoking warhol and all of pop art over a shitty mash-up that took all of 15 minutes to make. seriously, stitching a rap acapella over an existing song is not 'composition' or 'creative' work - nothing like the madeon you linked above.

you forgot to mention duchamp's urinal by the way. if a piece of porcelain we piss it can be Art, why can't ... blah blah
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+699|4349|Toronto
Fountain is another fine example, sure. I think the basic difference here is that I don't necessarily need enjoyable music to shift/advance whatever paradigm it is working within, as you appear to be suggesting as a measuring stick for whatever it is we're trying to arrive at.

I know it's time to end things when Shahter says something that approximates a point. But, as a parting shot for Shahter, let's not suggest that the study of art--in its various forms--has seen no critical advancements from "everything is subjective." I know you need to watch over your shoulder for the door knock from the FSB, but western critical thought took some good ideas from the east and moved forward in the last roughly 30-40 years. Appreciate Russia's contribution, and expect no acknowledgment that the debate might have moved on.
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
uziq
Member
+380|2258
no, it's just a bad song. i'm not relying upon art historical significance here. you raised the history of collage to justify the song, not me.

look, liking something as asinine and rudimentary as a mash-up comes to the following syllogism:

do you like song A?
do you like song B?
if YES to both, then you will like song C, made of both!!!!!

i don't like kendrick lamar. i like aphex twin way too much, and in isolation, to possibly like a hackneyed overlaying of kendrick/aphex.

my point about mash-ups is that there is nothing of any further interest to them. they have no technical merit, no creative originality, certainly no art historical importance (if you insist; i certainly don't). they live and die on one single criterion and normally only excite for 1 or 2 listens. it's dumb shit. please see my original comment. song iz bad and mash-up is the lowest form of music.

don't really think we need to be out here equipped with modus ponens arguments for not liking something as unexceptional and mediocre as the above.
uziq
Member
+380|2258

Shahter wrote:

you are tilting at windmills. both of you. listen to yourselves - creativity, complexity, touchy, feely, blah blah blah, it's all totally subjective. "art" exists entirely in the eye of the beholder. you can study techniques, trends and all that, but it's nigh impossible to define the stuff.
did you stop intellectually developing at age 14 or something?

‘everything is subjective!’
‘all problems stem from capitalism!’

so talk of ‘complexity’ and ‘accomplishment’ is fruitless when comparing glenn gould’s or mitsuko uchida’s interpretations of beethoven? it’s just as complex and just as good as a child practicing ‘chopsticks’ on their pianoforte, right?

seeing as you like wearing marx’s body of thought like an iron corset, here’s another name for you: Kant. go read his thoughts on the ‘everything is subjective’ aesthetics.

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-09 09:04:54)

uziq
Member
+380|2258
anyway.



Last edited by uziq (2021-01-09 09:29:59)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4912|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

song iz bad and mash-up is the lowest form of music.
But DJing takes the greatest skill and talent - according to you.

Still not sure why you have to piss on everything you don't personally like as you reee away to your painful drone, its as if you have a complex of some kind.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+380|2258
i've never said anywhere DJ'ing 'takes the greatest skill and talent'. i said it's different from production.

move along.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4912|eXtreme to the maX
DJs select songs and beatmatch them together, creating transitions and interesting segues or conjunctions/disjunctions. they craft a 'narrative' using a widely curated set of music.

this is what a DJ does. notice the v a r i a t i o n and the actual human e f f o r t in mixing the songs together, ensuring they're blending, keeping them in time, cutting and reversing, etc.
And I thought they just put records on.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4912|eXtreme to the maX
This band is great

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+380|2258

Dilbert_X wrote:

DJs select songs and beatmatch them together, creating transitions and interesting segues or conjunctions/disjunctions. they craft a 'narrative' using a widely curated set of music.

this is what a DJ does. notice the v a r i a t i o n and the actual human e f f o r t in mixing the songs together, ensuring they're blending, keeping them in time, cutting and reversing, etc.
And I thought they just put records on.
yes, is it a fundamentally different activity to producing. DJ'ing takes practice, craft, deep musical knowledge, and the ability to read a crowd.

where did i say it was 'the best and most difficult thing ever'?

you are so fucking asinine for a grown adult.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4912|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

DJ'ing takes practice, craft, deep musical knowledge, and the ability to read a crowd.
And producing a good mashup doesn't, OK.
Epstein didn't kill himself
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,700|5543|Oxferd Ohire

I love DnB for car music but I was listening to this while driving to work in snow a couple weeks back and it was bliss
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,700|5543|Oxferd Ohire

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

DJ'ing takes practice, craft, deep musical knowledge, and the ability to read a crowd.
And producing a good mashup doesn't, OK.
Mistabishi was a DnB artist known for premixing DJ sets. Later he was dropped after he was very vocal about Trump and such. Coincidence?
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4912|eXtreme to the maX
Do QAnon have a position on mashups?
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+380|2258

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

DJ'ing takes practice, craft, deep musical knowledge, and the ability to read a crowd.
And producing a good mashup doesn't, OK.
correct.

do you know anything about music production? when’s the last time you opened ableton, reason or logic? go on.

you are also, once again, completely missing my point. i don’t think composing music or producing involves the same skill sets as DJ’ing. i am not saying that DJ’ing requires consummately more of the above skills. jesus fucking CHRIST learn how to read you moron.

why would someone sat in front of a computer need to know ‘how to read a crowd’? the responsive, adaptive, improvisational aspect of DJ’ing is totally irrelevant in production. likewise, DJ’s don’t spend hours tuning a kick drum or EQ’ing a snare, or humming melodies to themselves. they’re NOT THE SAME TYPE OF ACTIVITY!

the number of artists who are both great producers and DJs are very small. both take huge amounts of practice to get very good at - and they don’t necessarily lend themselves together that well. a great DJ and a great selector can essentially be an anorak who has been in record stores all his/her life, acquiring a deep knowledge; they won’t be able to sit down in a studio and compose a fucking song. likewise, some of the most gifted composers or technical producers can’t DJ, perhaps don’t even particularly have a wide knowledge of music outside of their own, or perhaps just don’t perform live very well, don’t have the practice and comfort necessary to weave together music for 3-4 hours and know how to entertain a crowd.

the fact this distinction has to be made to you, to larssen, is really not good a good look for you. these are not secretive, hieratic processes. music producers and DJ’s have had their separate roles for a very long time. both figures are at least 50 years old at this point.

‘i thought they put records on’, i think you’re rather narrowly thinking of radio DJ’s. you know, who don’t mix continuously between tracks because they have to stop
to, er, present radio. a different skill set again. nobody in this thread has been talking about radio presenters you hopeless old goon.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4912|eXtreme to the maX
So why do you have a need to piss on mashups?
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+380|2258
i just said they’re very low effort, very unimaginative, and a gimmick. they were very popular in the 2000s. know why? because new music software was available that made it trivially easy to mash-up songs together.

it’s called a time-stretching algorithm. they became very viable and widespread tech for consumer-level laptops (and music production DAWs) in the 2000s. it is SO easy now to find two songs, have the harebrained idea to mix them together, and throw them onto two tracks in software. the software will match them in time perfectly, the algorithm will even retain their pitch and key so they don’t sound distorted (the algorithms are incredibly granular), and play them perfectly together. all a producer has to do is trim and automate some volume levels, cut a bit out here and there, et voila.

once again i’ll ask you: when’s the last time you opened music production software? let me know. this is a highly interesting argument to be having.
uziq
Member
+380|2258
oh look, a 10-minute tutorial from 2011.



it's almost like i know exactly what i'm talking about, and you have no FUCKING clue.

so if it takes '10-15 minutes' to do, as i said to pochsy in a post about 13 laborious, unnecessary posts ago, one would think they better be doing something strikingly bold and interesting with it, at least. there better be some pay-off, right? some point to it? oh, wait, pochsy's example mixed together the best-selling rap artist of last year with one of the most well-known electronic tunes of all time? wow, amazing. revelatory. i'm so glad this producer decided to click+drag two incredibly obvious, overplayed tunes together into a DAW. thank you sir, 10/10!

Last edited by uziq (2021-01-10 02:42:29)

uziq
Member
+380|2258

RTHKI wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgER4sAhxzc
I love DnB for car music but I was listening to this while driving to work in snow a couple weeks back and it was bliss
felix K and his label is some of my favourite drum n bass nowadays.





special mention to this guy from bristol too.

uziq
Member
+380|2258


Last edited by uziq (2021-01-10 07:27:07)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+431|2526
I like Joy Division/New Order
uziq
Member
+380|2258
i saw them live at an outdoor show in bristol pre-corona. good fun.

good movie in that video, too, a classic.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,900|5438|949

There was a lot of great music that came out of the post-punk scene.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,700|5543|Oxferd Ohire

uziq wrote:

RTHKI wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgER4sAhxzc
I love DnB for car music but I was listening to this while driving to work in snow a couple weeks back and it was bliss
felix K and his label is some of my favourite drum n bass nowadays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tevyQKNhKaI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f4LWQlaYlw

special mention to this guy from bristol too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJRP5sKn0Y
mtb commented on that first youtube video
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
uziq
Member
+380|2258
yeah he was quite in the know

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