Really now? No I won't bother. If it is necessary for your musical enjoyment and gives you comfort to think of it in terms of hidden and underappreciated moby dicks and van goghs, you do you.uziq wrote:
thundercat and kamasi washington are good musicians, but you'd probably snub your nose at flying lotus back in the day and call it 'niche bleepy noise'. whoosh! over your head. the whole jazzy-improv-hip-hop-electronica thing kicked off with brainfeeder in LA about 15 years ago. now you think it's brilliant and 'the future of jazz' or some other portentous crap because of kendrick lamar. you don't even know the basic genealogy of these musics.
you know a few terms but you have no idea what you're talking about. could you tell me a song produced in fruityloops? go on. link me an example and explain to me how you know. or are you just using it as a vague term of disparagement because you actually know nothing about this music? go on, take a minute.
once again, you don’t have the faintest clue what you are talking about.
you think you’re listening to some revolutionary thing that’s ‘making jazz relevant again’ when you’re actually listening to the pitchfork festival/grammy winning breakout hit from a scene that has been simmering away for 10 or 15 years.
madlib made his jazz record for blue note, what, 20 years ago?
flying lotus produced 1983/los angeles, what, 15 years ago?
now you pop up here to denigrate ‘beepy repetitive fruity loop producers’. the simple fact is that you have no idea about these scenes, you clearly don’t know how the music is being produced although you weirdly try to attack it on those grounds, and you are very much a normie chewing the cud on his spotify account or whatever the fuck.
you think you know about music, but you don’t. you’re a consumer. people who are invested in music don’t all twirl their moustaches and think they’re listening to the next van gogh. that’s inane. they listen because they enjoy it and appreciate it. again, acts like the necks have been touring for FORTY years my guy. bands don’t survive that long unless they have a stable income and a decent audience. people really enjoy this stuff. i know that’s beyond you because you seem to think you’re in touch with the most brilliant, most interesting, most relevant and radical stuff, like your guy - OMG! - integrating ‘beat making’ into jazz in 2020.
you are like a consultant at coachella or a silicon valley type at burning man who just thinks he’s surfing the zeitgeist. you are a total normie.
you think you’re listening to some revolutionary thing that’s ‘making jazz relevant again’ when you’re actually listening to the pitchfork festival/grammy winning breakout hit from a scene that has been simmering away for 10 or 15 years.
madlib made his jazz record for blue note, what, 20 years ago?
flying lotus produced 1983/los angeles, what, 15 years ago?
now you pop up here to denigrate ‘beepy repetitive fruity loop producers’. the simple fact is that you have no idea about these scenes, you clearly don’t know how the music is being produced although you weirdly try to attack it on those grounds, and you are very much a normie chewing the cud on his spotify account or whatever the fuck.
you think you know about music, but you don’t. you’re a consumer. people who are invested in music don’t all twirl their moustaches and think they’re listening to the next van gogh. that’s inane. they listen because they enjoy it and appreciate it. again, acts like the necks have been touring for FORTY years my guy. bands don’t survive that long unless they have a stable income and a decent audience. people really enjoy this stuff. i know that’s beyond you because you seem to think you’re in touch with the most brilliant, most interesting, most relevant and radical stuff, like your guy - OMG! - integrating ‘beat making’ into jazz in 2020.
you are like a consultant at coachella or a silicon valley type at burning man who just thinks he’s surfing the zeitgeist. you are a total normie.
Last edited by uziq (2020-12-06 00:47:51)
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
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stones throw, 2003.
flylo, 2006.
flylo, 2008.
hey look! who ended up collaborating with him!
but remember, mixing jazz and 'beat producing' in 2020 is absolutely novel, radical, innovative, and is single-handedly keeping jazz alive. all those jazz fans looking in desperation to robert glasper and kendrick lamar! save our scene! we are dying without rappers spittin' bars over our songs!
meanwhile ECM records are still putting out about 15 albums a year of brand new stuff.
jazz is thoroughly electronic.
jazz has been thoroughly integrated with breakbeats (2012)
larssen knows all about music!
flylo, 2006.
flylo, 2008.
hey look! who ended up collaborating with him!
but remember, mixing jazz and 'beat producing' in 2020 is absolutely novel, radical, innovative, and is single-handedly keeping jazz alive. all those jazz fans looking in desperation to robert glasper and kendrick lamar! save our scene! we are dying without rappers spittin' bars over our songs!
meanwhile ECM records are still putting out about 15 albums a year of brand new stuff.
jazz is thoroughly electronic.
jazz has been thoroughly integrated with breakbeats (2012)
larssen knows all about music!
Last edited by uziq (2020-12-06 01:09:48)
Hey look it's uziq
you do this a lot. you make some grand pronouncement like 'this is what's keeping jazz relevant', and then as soon as anyone shows you a little of how clueless you are, you do the 'hur hur art elitists and snobs who would criticize MICHAELANGELO!' routine, as if i'm being a pedant or ridiculous. re-read your posts. you are simply out of your depth. talking about full-analogue producers using fruityloops (lol), commenting on repetitive bloopy beats, talking about how jazz is reliant on fucking rappers for its life-blood ... lol.
every time you are found badly wanting in need of knowledge on a subject, you resort to calling me a 'snob' or 'elitist'. or do the equivalent of saying, 'gee, uzique, the real problem is your tone, not my lack of knowledge'. again, re-read your first responses. they are full of arrogant certainties about things you don't have a fucking clue about. it's almost funny my guy. you've got the serious ego problems, here.
it's because you like to imagine yourself as being terribly au fait and 'up to date' with the latest, most relevant, most generation-defining music. you're a guy with a spotify subscription who bumps the kendrick lamar album ffs. please stop accusing anyone with a deeper investment in music than yourself of being 'super niche' or 'obscure fanciers who imagine they're listening to the next picasso'. they're really not that. you just don't spend any time or effort digging into these subjects yourself.
if i'm a frog-meme, you're very much the equivalent of the raging gamer meme who calls anyone who is better than himself a 'no-life loser'.
every time you are found badly wanting in need of knowledge on a subject, you resort to calling me a 'snob' or 'elitist'. or do the equivalent of saying, 'gee, uzique, the real problem is your tone, not my lack of knowledge'. again, re-read your first responses. they are full of arrogant certainties about things you don't have a fucking clue about. it's almost funny my guy. you've got the serious ego problems, here.
it's because you like to imagine yourself as being terribly au fait and 'up to date' with the latest, most relevant, most generation-defining music. you're a guy with a spotify subscription who bumps the kendrick lamar album ffs. please stop accusing anyone with a deeper investment in music than yourself of being 'super niche' or 'obscure fanciers who imagine they're listening to the next picasso'. they're really not that. you just don't spend any time or effort digging into these subjects yourself.
if i'm a frog-meme, you're very much the equivalent of the raging gamer meme who calls anyone who is better than himself a 'no-life loser'.
Last edited by uziq (2020-12-06 01:34:33)
It's curious to me how your wall of text somehow refutes the point that you're indeed a living breathing frog meme, accusation of 'normies' and all.
No uziq I'm holding up a mirror and enjoying your rabid sputtering, only because I dared call your taste drab. How often have you been derisive, dismissive or insulting to others? Personally so even, whenever possible. Now seems I touched on something you hold dear and as a result your writing devolves into that of a kid in middle school. Relentlessly trying to make fun of anyone else to vent pet up frustrations. All veiled in a permanent need for intellectual validation, that permeates literally every post and seems to define your entire persona even down to the music you like. You must know the entire genealogy of the genre, the musical theory, the conjured intellectual justifications behind every note to appreciate something. When someone is dismissive of that you explode; how dare you criticise?! You're out of your depth! A musical pygmy! You're just not high IQ enough to acknowledge my superior tastes!
I'm beginning to think this sort of thing is like an automatic reflex of yours. Maybe think back to the commencement speech you posted by david foster wallace? Your worship is intellect and intellectualisation to the point that you're a prisoner to it, projecting it on everything around you and all your experiences. Anyone/anything that doesn't appeal to that is repulsive. You're unable to accept it when I or anyone else tells you they don't like something, and reflexively you'll immediately attack, because there's no 'justification', there's a perceived lack of reason, no abstract defence, while you spent so much time finding any and all arguments to allow yourself enjoyment in it. Dismissal that isn't in essay format with references and all just makes you boil over.
Deep down it's just childish, really. So narrow minded and insecure, and for all that brain power of yours you just can't see it.
No uziq I'm holding up a mirror and enjoying your rabid sputtering, only because I dared call your taste drab. How often have you been derisive, dismissive or insulting to others? Personally so even, whenever possible. Now seems I touched on something you hold dear and as a result your writing devolves into that of a kid in middle school. Relentlessly trying to make fun of anyone else to vent pet up frustrations. All veiled in a permanent need for intellectual validation, that permeates literally every post and seems to define your entire persona even down to the music you like. You must know the entire genealogy of the genre, the musical theory, the conjured intellectual justifications behind every note to appreciate something. When someone is dismissive of that you explode; how dare you criticise?! You're out of your depth! A musical pygmy! You're just not high IQ enough to acknowledge my superior tastes!
I'm beginning to think this sort of thing is like an automatic reflex of yours. Maybe think back to the commencement speech you posted by david foster wallace? Your worship is intellect and intellectualisation to the point that you're a prisoner to it, projecting it on everything around you and all your experiences. Anyone/anything that doesn't appeal to that is repulsive. You're unable to accept it when I or anyone else tells you they don't like something, and reflexively you'll immediately attack, because there's no 'justification', there's a perceived lack of reason, no abstract defence, while you spent so much time finding any and all arguments to allow yourself enjoyment in it. Dismissal that isn't in essay format with references and all just makes you boil over.
Deep down it's just childish, really. So narrow minded and insecure, and for all that brain power of yours you just can't see it.
i really don't care that you don't like my music. that is the norm here, lol. what i do care about is when you start saying 'poorly produced on fruityloops', as if you know what you're talking about. when you counter a live video of a band by saying 'not interesting, this is what's making jazz truly relevant'. you don't know anything about electronic music production or anything about jazz. this is PERFECTLY evident by the nonsensical nature of your lofty pronouncements. so that when you say 'this is what is making jazz relevant', what you really mean is 'this is what is bringing jazz into my extremely shallow, limited sphere of interest, as a pop consumer'. well that's not the same thing at all and is pretty insulting to an entire genre of musicians, no? sheer arrogance on your part.
if you just said 'i listened and i don't like it': fine. de gustibus non est disputandum.
but you reflexively HAVE to comment on their production techniques and namedrop software DAWs like you have the slightest idea what you're talking about. you do not. stop trying to clothe your lack of interest/lack of knowledge in high-minded dismissiveness. you have the music taste of a college fratboy. that's okay. but stop writing off everything beyond that as 'elitist snobs who would judge michaelangelo'. it's farcical. stop trying to make everything you do listen to into the apex of music today, as if your tastes in grammy-winning rappers and producers represents the very cutting-edge and summation of all that is vital in music today. needing kendrick to be 'the best ever' and those three jazz producers you listen to to be 'the best thing in the genre today' is just some weird egotism on your part. it's laziness, really, simultaneously flattering your lack of curiosity to dig deeper into a genre.
also lol at lecturing me on DFW. i wrote a master's thesis on those themes, dipshit. as if having a basic grasp of new music in the 21st century is 'worshipping the intellect'.
if you just said 'i listened and i don't like it': fine. de gustibus non est disputandum.
but you reflexively HAVE to comment on their production techniques and namedrop software DAWs like you have the slightest idea what you're talking about. you do not. stop trying to clothe your lack of interest/lack of knowledge in high-minded dismissiveness. you have the music taste of a college fratboy. that's okay. but stop writing off everything beyond that as 'elitist snobs who would judge michaelangelo'. it's farcical. stop trying to make everything you do listen to into the apex of music today, as if your tastes in grammy-winning rappers and producers represents the very cutting-edge and summation of all that is vital in music today. needing kendrick to be 'the best ever' and those three jazz producers you listen to to be 'the best thing in the genre today' is just some weird egotism on your part. it's laziness, really, simultaneously flattering your lack of curiosity to dig deeper into a genre.
also lol at lecturing me on DFW. i wrote a master's thesis on those themes, dipshit. as if having a basic grasp of new music in the 21st century is 'worshipping the intellect'.
Last edited by uziq (2020-12-06 03:22:07)
That's exactly what I did say boi, then I went and entertained your need for discussion by offering an opposing opinion; but of course that only brings out a verbal fight to rock bottom in you where you need to prove that the other is less informed or well versed in your pet subject, thus dismissing whatever is said. Does it still surprise you that literally any elongated discussion with you where the other person doesn't agree ends up in your intellectual posturing and bitter ad hominems? I can just smell your sour mood all throughout your writings.'i listened and i don't like it'
How often have you been personally dismissive to dilbert whenever he posts his admittedly shit music? Why can't you take similar treatment?
Last edited by Larssen (2020-12-06 03:31:23)
hahaha. 'how often have you been personally dismissive to dilbert whenever he posts his admittedly shit music'? QED.
dilbert is a grown man who listens to pop music crafted and marketed at 14 year old girls. it's an amusing facet of his personality, like his reliance on prostitutes and the fact he feels more warmth for his cat than real human beings.
similarly, you're a grown man who is still gliding through life in 'consumer-mode', only picking up on musical artists and trends that major streaming apps or mainstream culture throws at you, and kidding yourself all the while that you're well-informed and a tasteful, cultivated guy who certainly knows all there is to know about genre x and can safely dismiss artist y, etc.
lots of fun pop-psychology in this thread. i'm full of bitterness and acrimony! oh woe! i must be a really unhappy type because i ask for people to know what they're actually talking about when they join a discussion. a nice suite of self-delusions on your part, too.
please just stop acting so surprised when people actually call you on your blague and ask for justification. i'm sure a bit of namedropping and hastily generalized nonsense carries you through in the meeting room environment with your similarly philistine consultant colleagues, but my business is in the detail and the citation. more references needed, plz.
dilbert is a grown man who listens to pop music crafted and marketed at 14 year old girls. it's an amusing facet of his personality, like his reliance on prostitutes and the fact he feels more warmth for his cat than real human beings.
similarly, you're a grown man who is still gliding through life in 'consumer-mode', only picking up on musical artists and trends that major streaming apps or mainstream culture throws at you, and kidding yourself all the while that you're well-informed and a tasteful, cultivated guy who certainly knows all there is to know about genre x and can safely dismiss artist y, etc.
lots of fun pop-psychology in this thread. i'm full of bitterness and acrimony! oh woe! i must be a really unhappy type because i ask for people to know what they're actually talking about when they join a discussion. a nice suite of self-delusions on your part, too.
please just stop acting so surprised when people actually call you on your blague and ask for justification. i'm sure a bit of namedropping and hastily generalized nonsense carries you through in the meeting room environment with your similarly philistine consultant colleagues, but my business is in the detail and the citation. more references needed, plz.
Last edited by uziq (2020-12-06 03:42:21)
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +641|3961
Circling back to hair metal for a moment, there are actually a lot of fun songs there. I like a few Slayer, Rob Zombie, Godsmack, and Disturbed songs too. But anything more modern or harder than that? blargh. I don't see the appeal. I rather hear Uzique's beeps or even country music than modern metal music. The whole genre seems very immature frankly. I don't know how a lot of people never graduate to or at least accept music you can chat with a girl to.
it's very adolescent-male and relies a lot on libidinal projection and identification, yes. the alienation and 'you don't understand me' rage of the lead singer, etc. frankly it's more than a little homoerotic and repressed. that's why i prefer my joyous house and disco 'bleeps and bloops': at least they're openly, nakedly sexual and free. none of this sadistic ingrown stuff.
It's tiresome that you believe I'm somehow submitting to you by turning the discussion. I get bored uziq. I couldn't care less about you demanding others endlessly deliver justification or proofs. It will go on into eternity. That's the entire point. There's always some predictable formula here where you go from accusing that the other knows nothing and is an idiot, to saying 'you know a few terms / you think you know / you have undergraduate understanding' or variation thereof to doubling down and upping the venom. Then in future posts you'll endlessly reference this perceived slight. You are full of bitterness/projection, call it pop psychology all you like (funny, again derision for not being -to you- intellectual enough).
It sure does seem to be the stomping grounds for the a subset of weird kids in school to adopt as if it's a personality. Your last part is interesting because its sounds analogous to the cringey whining of "why can't I find a girl who likes the same type of music as me?" that is just as pathetic as gamers lamenting that there isn't a hot girl who is exceedingly attracted to them as foretold in the prophecy of the animes.SuperJail Warden wrote:
Circling back to hair metal for a moment, there are actually a lot of fun songs there. I like a few Slayer, Rob Zombie, Godsmack, and Disturbed songs too. But anything more modern or harder than that? blargh. I don't see the appeal. I rather hear Uzique's beeps or even country music than modern metal music. The whole genre seems very immature frankly. I don't know how a lot of people never graduate to or at least accept music you can chat with a girl to.
After the hair metal era came megadeth and metallica tho? That's not exactly emo nerd music. Beyond that, Tool?
Even if you go harder into death metal stuff I'd reference Insomnium which isn't emo at all either if you listen to it.
Or Rammstein, In Flames if we're talking the European scene - if I were uziq I'd have to start foaming at the mouth cause of your 'ignorance' here.
What you're mostly talking about is Linkin Park I think
Even if you go harder into death metal stuff I'd reference Insomnium which isn't emo at all either if you listen to it.
Or Rammstein, In Flames if we're talking the European scene - if I were uziq I'd have to start foaming at the mouth cause of your 'ignorance' here.
What you're mostly talking about is Linkin Park I think
Is that to me or Mac? I, for one, wasn't thinking of anything emo in my reply.
Mostly mac
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +641|3961
Larssen wrote:
After the hair metal era came megadeth and metallica tho? That's not exactly emo nerd music. Beyond that, Tool?
Even if you go harder into death metal stuff I'd reference Insomnium which isn't emo at all either if you listen to it.
[Youtube]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g63jgTRyDDY[/url]
Or Rammstein, In Flames if we're talking the European scene - if I were uziq I'd have to start foaming at the mouth cause of your 'ignorance' here.
What you're mostly talking about is Linkin Park I think
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I like Linkin Park. I don't like growling.
knowing what fruity loops is as some vague connotation of 'cheapness' evidently hasn't helped you to understand anything about electronic music. you can't identify a song produced in fruity loops. you can't even tell the basic difference between analogue gear and digital software. so it's probably better that you hold-off accusing producers of producing 'simplistic fruity loops' music until you grasp the very basics of production, ne?Larssen wrote:
It's tiresome that you believe I'm somehow submitting to you by turning the discussion. I get bored uziq. I couldn't care less about you demanding others endlessly deliver justification or proofs. It will go on into eternity. That's the entire point. There's always some predictable formula here where you go from accusing that the other knows nothing and is an idiot, to saying 'you know a few terms / you think you know / you have undergraduate understanding' or variation thereof to doubling down and upping the venom. Then in future posts you'll endlessly reference this perceived slight. You are full of bitterness/projection, call it pop psychology all you like (funny, again derision for not being -to you- intellectual enough).
this isn't a case of me accusing you of 'having an undergraduate understanding'. it's a case of you talking complete fucking nonsense and being so ignorant that you can't even grasp how dumb your remarks are. again, having a few spotify playlists labelled as 'jazz' doesn't make you a committed and invested fan.
also tool fans are the absolute worst of any metal fan. i'll take a hair-metal or glam-rock dude in spandex and diamanté over a fucking pretentious tool fan. talk about arty people who think they're discussing the next picasso. that IS tool fans.
Last edited by uziq (2020-12-06 09:11:42)
Zzzzzzzzzzuziq wrote:
knowing what fruity loops is as some vague connotation of 'cheapness' evidently hasn't helped you to understand anything about electronic music. you can't identify a song produced in fruity loops. you can't even tell the basic difference between analogue gear and digital software. so it's probably better that you hold-off accusing producers of producing 'simplistic fruity loops' music until you grasp the very basics of production, ne?Larssen wrote:
It's tiresome that you believe I'm somehow submitting to you by turning the discussion. I get bored uziq. I couldn't care less about you demanding others endlessly deliver justification or proofs. It will go on into eternity. That's the entire point. There's always some predictable formula here where you go from accusing that the other knows nothing and is an idiot, to saying 'you know a few terms / you think you know / you have undergraduate understanding' or variation thereof to doubling down and upping the venom. Then in future posts you'll endlessly reference this perceived slight. You are full of bitterness/projection, call it pop psychology all you like (funny, again derision for not being -to you- intellectual enough).
this isn't a case of me accusing you of 'having an undergraduate understanding'. it's a case of you talking complete fucking nonsense and being so ignorant that you can't even grasp how dumb your remarks are. again, having a few spotify playlists labelled as 'jazz' doesn't make you a committed and invested fan.