GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6971

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// Intro to Advanced Chopper Tactics

I decided to test the limits of these choppers in game and made a little experiment. I'm pretty happy with the results so here's what I found. Videos are included. Oh yea, and try at your own risk, I am not responsible for accidental deaths, tks, or bouts of nausea caused by these moves.

I tried all of these on the Cobra. The PLA chopper also worked well for the maneuvers, The MEC one is a little sluggish but you should be able to pull them off.

Btw, spinning is what I do by pressing the "A" and "D" keys. Rolling is what I do when i move mouse left and right. Transpose to your settings. I know there's correct terms so as soon as someone flames me for that I'll update the info.

I'm hosting the videos on my server, so please be nice, I don't have tons of bandwidth, but since I have like no visitors I figured I might as well use it for something. Plus, I hate those free video things, having to wait and clicking on stupid links.

IMPORTANT - I just got a new site stats package and in order to implement it I have to make some changes to my site. In the meanwhile, to download the videos, just go to http://www.gotmex.net/bf2/ page and work your way around that page to download whichever video your heart desires. Hopefully I'll have more direct linking within the next couple of days.
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// Attack Chopper Tactics - Barrel Roll

Ok this is the simplest of the moves I tried. The setup is quite simple: Get some height; move mouse/joystick in the direction of barrel roll. If you have enough height, the roll will go as planned but you will definatelly lose some height. Start off trying just this to see what's in store for you.

In order to make it practical and useful, here's some tips.
- First off, keep the throttle up on high throught the turn, this ensures you gain some much needed speed.
- Second, aim a little up right before you start the roll, this is because for some reason, I would always point the nose down and lose more height than needed.
- Last, start off the roll by spinning and rolling in the OPPOSITE direction that you want at first, then swing hard to the other side and keep spinning in the original direction  This initial move throws the center of gravity off so that when you swing back you get more momentum to complete the roll.

- Note: The use of the spin buttons is mainly to fine tune the maneuvers mid air. It's kinda hard to explain what to do exactly, but you'll get the hang of it. If you see the chopper drifting off center, just compensate by spinning, all during the barrel roll.

Ok so here's a run down of what you will see in the video. Start off a little high, throttle up, and moving slightly foward. Begin the roll by rolling and spinning in the opposite direction you intend to barrel roll. When you are ready, tilt the nose up just a little and roll hard to the opposite side. Follow through until you are level again and proceed to stabilize your chopper. After you get the hang of it, stabilization won't really be needed, it'll just happen.

A barrel roll in the chopper is not like a plan where you roll along it's axis. It looks more like a corkscrew roll because the chopper can't really roll on it's own axis. I'm not really sure what you can use it for, but hey it looks cool, and after you get the hang of it you can use it at a decent altitude to be able to pull it off while running away from crappy AA.

Video 1 - Barrel Roll (Inside Cockpit)
Video 2 - Barrel Roll (Outside view)
Video 3 - Double Barrel Roll
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// Advanced Chopper Tactics - Loop de loop
A bit harder to pull off than the barrel roll. You definatelly need some good height for this one, because a decent amount of speed is needed. Basic setup goes as follows: Get some good height; tilt nose foward to gain speed and momentum; tilt back hard and fast and hold it (or keep moving mouse down depending on control method) and follow through until loop is done. Make sure you constantly hold the throttle on high, speed is crucial to this move.

I like this move while fighting another chopper. Get some height, and let the bastard try and chase you, while you head towards your air base. Then pull off the loop and he most likely won't be able to target you. If you don't appear behind him after the move, at least you can target him better since he's gonna be looking for you.

There really is nothing more to the move, just that it's not really practical because of the height requirement. It really is beautiful though, the choppers do loops gracefully.

Video 1 - Loop de Loop (Inside Cockpit)
Video 2 - Loop de Loop (Outside view)

Video 3 - Double Loop
Hardcore tactic alert: Look at double loop video and check out how you can actually have your gunner parachute out and then you can pick him up mid-air. May I suggest something for you hardcore chopper people. Have your gunner parachute out while you distract the enemy chopper with your loops. The gunner then engages the enemy chopper with his anti-tank kit SRAW mid-air, or even more hardcore, M95 the pilot. Then you just go back, pick up your gunner, and be on your way. (That was single player so the bot doesn't know how to enter the chopper mid-air, oh well.)
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// Advanced Chopper Tactics - Immelman Turn
This is my all time favorite move done by airplanes so I figured, let's see if the BF2 choppers can do them. It's rather pointless because the choppers can turn on their axis to reverse direction, but in BF2 I've found it's a nice little maneuver to have up your sleeves. For starters, an immelman turn is 1/2 a loop, followed by 1/2 a barrel roll to level yourself. This effectivelly reverses your direction without having to move left or right.

Ok so in Bf2, you start off with a regular loop, same technique and all. Halfway through (you should be upside down) you stop the loop and you begin a barrel roll. That's all there is to it. Now, because of the way the choppers handle during the barrel roll, you probably won't be facing the reverse direction but rather somewhere close to it. The more you practice the closer to a full reversal you can get.

Cool thing is you don't need as much height as the full loop. You actually gain some good height after doing the first half of the loop so when you barrel roll you should be close to your original height. With good speed and practice, you will be able to pull it off in tighter spaces.

I like this tactic because it gives you the advantages of a loop while trying to avoid AA/enemy fire, while not having to compensate for height too much. It doesn't necessarily place you in a better position to attack another chopper, but it does throw people off which works as an advantage for you.

Update: Also, this move is perfect for nosediving with the cobra. Usually I refrain from diving because of the large amounts of space needed. But for example, you can dive an AA site with full rocket payload and then just pull back up. Instead of leveling and turning around, do an immelman and you'll be close by to take out other enemies.

Video 1 - Immelman Turn (Inside Cockpit)

Video 2 - Immelman Turn (Outside view)
Note on video 2: This is actually a failed attempt at the immelman, I started the barrel roll too early and thus screwed it all up. Thought I'd leave it in for reference, I'll add a true turn soon.

Video 3 - Immelman in Action
Note on video 3: This is single player so I know it's a bit easier, but I just thought it'd be cool to show you how you can use the Immelman to be all cool and "leet" if you will.

Video 4 - Immelman in Action
Note on video 4: Here you can see a more practical application of the Immelman. I tend to start the 1/2 barrel roll too early and in this case it almost proved deadly, however I managed to stay alive and come back and take out the tank.
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// Advanced Chopper Tactics - Split-S
// Thanks to Tigg@lot for description:
"When you want to try it you have to be flying high as the maneuvers purpose is to loose altitude and gain speed while making a 180° turn. You start with a half barrel roll and while you´re upside down you pull your joystick/mouse back to perform a half loop. I think if you train and get better the amount of altitude you loose during this maneuver will decrease.

The second thing I tried today was if the Immelmann was possible for every chopper ingame. Yes, every chopper ingame can perform Immelmanns (Split-S´s too)."

Definatelly a cool move, it works as long as you have moderate height and can be used to reverse your direction and gain speed at the same time. I tried it out a couple times during battle with another chopper, one time I ran away and went to repair, the other time I got killed. First time I tried it I was being chased so the move threw the other pilot off and he lost me. Second time, we were facing each other and then I pulled the move, which was dumb since he just had to hover and let his gunner waste me.

Video 1 - Split-S (Inside Cockpit)
Video 2 - Split-S (Outside view)
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// Advanced Chopper Tactics - Over-Under Loop
Ok so this really isn't a special move, but after practicing loops a lot, I've been able to perfect them and calculate how much space is need to do one. Here you can see the starting height, and the ending height for each of the loops. The pipe one lets you see how low is too low when attempting a loop. The key thing is to keep a steady loop without drifting to the sides and getting ready to maneuver as soon as you are level.

Video 1 - Loop around Pipe
Video 2 - Loop around Dock Thingy
Video 3 - Loop around Crane
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// Conclusion
So yea, you can do lots of cool things with these toys. Not sure how useful these moves are but hey, impress your buddies/gf/teammates if you want. I'd rather have you pulling off this crap as my pilot than flying as close as you can to the ground and not letting me fire at the enemy. Also, honestly these are more for entertainment than for true BF2 tactics, I spend a lot of try trying to pull them off in game so it's not entirely worth it.

I actually tried a bunch of other moves, for example, a backwards loop. Basically, same as a loop, but instead you tilt the choppers ass back and then move it foward as hard as possible. This was pretty much hopeless because so much speed is lost that when I made it to upside down, I just stalled out. I was pretty high up so at least i was able to save my ass from dying. An inverse loop was also attempted, which was quickly stopped by a full vertical nose dive into the ground. Chopper wouldn't complete the turn as I wanted it to.

Ok that's it for now, my hands hurt from typing. The things I will do to entertain bf2s members...
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Last edited by GotMex? (2006-06-05 18:07:13)

GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6971

Yay, videos are up and running, enjoy.
tF-voodoochild
Pew Pew!
+216|7056|San Francisco

Nicely done, though there are other 'advanced tactics' as well, perhaps this will be updated with more in the future.
Major Payne
Member
+18|6988|Netherlands
nice
theburritos
Member
+0|6962|Orange County
hey dude, someone did those same moves with me. Maybe it was you!? yeah nice work though.
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6971

tF-voodoochild wrote:

Nicely done, though there are other 'advanced tactics' as well, perhaps this will be updated with more in the future.
Dude don't just say that and not give more info! Which ones you got in mind, I kinda want to try and record as many as I can.

So far I have the reverse Immelman ready. Oh and of course I have the double loop and double barrel rolls ready. I'm working on a double Immelman which would look cool, but kinda hard. As you can see I have limited variety here so I'd love to know other things to try.
tF-voodoochild
Pew Pew!
+216|7056|San Francisco

Hehe, well, I was thinking more useful stuff. Chuy might be better with specifics since he is typically my pilot (and a damn good one at that!)

I see him dodge AA missiles pretty consistantly by rolling the chopper left, right, left, right in quick succession.

I did find it interesting that you did an Immelman manuever in a chopper though, I never woulda thought of that since they can just pivot. I can see how it might be useful for quick climbs though... I will do some chopper flying this weekend and see what else there is, I know there are more, it's just a bit too late to think of them right now

(By the way, the double-immelman is a fantastic move to pull in a fighter jet to get someone off of your six!)
SMKpaladin
Member
+0|6949|Germany
I did a barrel roll with a Black Hawk a long time ago, but I don't have proof for that, so no vid The BH was full when I took off the carrier and empty when I was in mid-roll It's a bit harder as with an attack chopper.

Last edited by SMKpaladin (2005-11-19 07:16:40)

Tigg@lot
noob on tour
+1|6982|NRW,Germany
As for the loop de loop and Barrel roll, you can do those with every chopper in the game (tried it).

Didn´t try the Immelmann yet but sounds interesting ^^
Stubbee
Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts
+223|6951|Reality

SMKpaladin wrote:

I did a barrel roll with a Black Hawk a long time ago, but I don't have proof for that, so no vid The BH was full when I took off the carrier and empty when I was in mid-roll It's a bit harder as with an attack chopper.
LMAO

Nice move. It is a long swim in an direction.
The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
dshak
Member
+4|7021
um,

nice post, the chopper tactics, good stuff... but how does that video show the M95s power? you killed another sniper with it? with what looked like a head shot? I don't get it, that same shot would be easier with an M24?
n1nj41c l337ne55
Member
+1|6953|Pittsburgh, Virginia lol

dshak wrote:

um,

nice post, the chopper tactics, good stuff... but how does that video show the M95s power? you killed another sniper with it? with what looked like a head shot? I don't get it, that same shot would be easier with an M24?
Thats the whole point retard. Everyone says the M95 sux. It's not accurate enough. BLah blah blah. You just have to know how to use it(point of the video) and its an excellent alternative to the shitty MEC and China snipers.

Last edited by n1nj41c l337ne55 (2005-11-19 09:50:34)

ellmo
Member
+0|6942
No, what GotMex meant is the proof of .50cal rounds flying pretty straight, not drop quickly as everyone has stated before. Even I was convinced it was hard to hit a distant target. Now I see I was mistaken. Thanks GotMex for the undeniable proof

[EDIT:] This of course is a reply to the question two posts above. Not to the recent post.

Oh, and I also would like to ask a few questions to all you seasoned chopper aces/gunners.

PILOTS:
1.Can you give me some basic advices of how NOT to use dumbfire missiles on ground targets? I'm rarely being killed in a chopper... I just crash myslef alot (/me very mediocre pilot).
2. Do you have any idea, how to deal with a stupid gunner, who jumps in your chopper, and instead of TV hunting the heavy armour, choppers and hardpoints, he tends to fire the MGun at everything that moves or not? What is the most frustrating fact, he fails to notice incoming targets that aim on us, and he does never, ever SPOT targets. How do you deal with them? Give up flying for the current game? They don't read anything you write, no matter how polite/rude you are.

GUNNERS
1. How the hell do I control the TV rocket during flight? I can hit a lot of targets with a well placed shot, but I seem to have trouble understanding how the missile is controled while airborne. Do I have to hit primary fire from time to time, to make my missile head to where the crosshair points?

Thanks for any and all advices you can share.

Last edited by ellmo (2005-11-19 10:00:38)

Mr_Spork
Member
+2|6949
Is it possible to do a 'loop da loop' by forward flipping instead of a back flip?

lol I can imagine the MEC choppers going WTF when they try to follow the immelman move
Dr0pped
Member
+8|6963|Ontario, Canada

ellmo wrote:

GUNNERS
1. How the hell do I control the TV rocket during flight? I can hit a lot of targets with a well placed shot, but I seem to have trouble understanding how the missile is controled while airborne. Do I have to hit primary fire from time to time, to make my missile head to where the crosshair points?

Thanks for any and all advices you can share.
That's exactly how you do it. Keep the crosshairs on the target and click primary fire  to steer it home.

Happy hunting!

Last edited by Dr0pped (2005-11-19 10:37:29)

tF-voodoochild
Pew Pew!
+216|7056|San Francisco

Mr_Spork wrote:

Is it possible to do a 'loop da loop' by forward flipping instead of a back flip?

lol I can imagine the MEC choppers going WTF when they try to follow the immelman move
No, you stall out after 180 degrees of rotation. However you can do the first half of the loop up to stalling and then roll out of it, sort of a reverse immelman move
dissolute
Member
+0|6943
VIDEO ON CIRCLE STRAFING A FLAG GO GO GO.
OK i'll be serious.

Perhaps you should make a video showing all the different tactics you would use when being tailed by another chopper or when tailing another chopper. Things you should/should not do. How to effectively use throttle to your advantage. Speed is not always the key. Hover and pivot when a chopper in front of you tries to make a sharp turn. Dive and pull to one side or the other. If you want I'll be the chase pilot and we can make these videos. Or we can jump in a quick game and I can show you what I mean by all of these things.

But I was being serious about the flag circle strafing. Its a very very useful tool when trying to capture a flag where you just killed some people and are worried about getting hit by some AntiTank.

Just my 2 cents! Great Post!
dshak
Member
+4|7021
thats the whole point retard??? You havea video of an easy kill of a stationary target!?!?

I don't think anyone claimed you can't hit someone lying on top of a hill with an M95, holy crap. personally i've never made any claims of bullet drop or any of that stuff regarding the M95, but a video like that only proves one thing, that you can shoot someone who is laying there waiting to be shot.

Last edited by dshak (2005-11-19 11:34:54)

GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6971

dissolute wrote:

VIDEO ON CIRCLE STRAFING A FLAG GO GO GO.
OK i'll be serious.

Perhaps you should make a video showing all the different tactics you would use when being tailed by another chopper or when tailing another chopper. Things you should/should not do. How to effectively use throttle to your advantage. Speed is not always the key. Hover and pivot when a chopper in front of you tries to make a sharp turn. Dive and pull to one side or the other. If you want I'll be the chase pilot and we can make these videos. Or we can jump in a quick game and I can show you what I mean by all of these things.

But I was being serious about the flag circle strafing. Its a very very useful tool when trying to capture a flag where you just killed some people and are worried about getting hit by some AntiTank.

Just my 2 cents! Great Post!
I wanted to do the real useful tactics, but I don't have a friend to chase me around in another chopper. Plus, doing them in game would just piss some people off every time i crashed the chopper so I don't want that either.

As for the circle strafing, I'm working in it, it is definatelly one of the coolest, most useful moves out there. It lets you get in the enemies face capping a flag, while being a hard target to hit.

Thx for all the posts.
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6971

dshak wrote:

thats the whole point retard??? You havea video of an easy kill of a stationary target!?!?

I don't think anyone claimed you can't hit someone lying on top of a hill with an M95, holy crap. personally i've never made any claims of bullet drop or any of that stuff regarding the M95, but a video like that only proves one thing, that you can shoot someone who is laying there waiting to be shot.
All I was trying to show is that the M95 is accurate given that you aim correctly at your enemy, and that it is very powerful (as long as you get a headshot hehe). Also, I know lots of people have doubts about bullet drop and where you should aim, so I just wanted to show that aiming straight at the head is the only way to go, even at long range.

I'll probably take out the "power" clause on the main pause cause you're right, it doesn't show that it is very powerful. But thanks for watching.
kripp
Member
+42|6950|Florida (305)
How do u get fraps to work without being so choppy? Its impossible for me to record anything because its so choppy
ellmo
Member
+0|6942

dshak wrote:

a video like that only proves one thing, that you can shoot someone who is laying there waiting to be shot.
And a post like that proves one thing, that you're a trolling idiot. Do you always punish for TK's also? Read the information about the vidoe first.

Okay, my two cents will be a quick horizontal turn with the chopper, that probably most of you know perfectly well, but I do outmaneuver enemy choppers and ground units with this alot. It's just pressing the oposite slide key while banking in one direction. And also throttle up.

EXAMPLE: Turning left quickly, is moving mouse to left, pressing default D, and default A. This slides your chopper a bit, and also makes the incoming missiles go nuts. What's best - after performing that turn, you have almost no speed, so you're giving your gunner (or yourself) a perfect occasion to knock out that Tank you've just passed.

Last edited by ellmo (2005-11-19 14:18:56)

GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6971

kripp wrote:

How do u get fraps to work without being so choppy? Its impossible for me to record anything because its so choppy
I turn the resolution back down to 1024 or so. Then select half-sized video resolution on fraps. I have a Dell 9300 Inspiron laptop with the 6800go card so it can handle a little torture. 2gb ram can't hurt either. I get about 50fps with fraps off at this set up. When fraps starts to record I drop down somewhere between 25-30. Depends on what's on screen.

For the purpose of recording these videos, I know the moves it's easy to do no matter what my fps are, but yea, it can get choppy sometimes when trying to record stuff with more action. Just turn your res down and tweak the settings till you get something useful. No point in recording full size either since the video is gonna be compressed at the end.
kripp
Member
+42|6950|Florida (305)
ok thx
Tigg@lot
noob on tour
+1|6982|NRW,Germany
I just tried if a Split-S (inverted Immelmann) was possible and it is ^^

When you want to try it you have to be flying high as the maneuvers purpose is to loose altitude and gain speed while making a 180° turn. You start with a half barrel roll and while you´re upside down you pull your joystick/mouse back to perform a half loop.
I think if you train and get better the amount of altitude you loose during this maneuver whill decrease.

The second thing I tried today was if the Immelmann was possible for every chopper ingame. Yes, every chopper ingame can perform Immelmanns (Split-S´s too).

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