Well I don't see the point in using what has essentially just become a political slur - fascist - to describe a religion. Islam isn't intolerant - it is some of those who practice it that are intolerant.ATG wrote:
Generally speaking, what religion is more intollerent? More facist?
Why persist with the OBVIOUSLY erroneous assertion that say my view is anti-semitic? You are wrong there. No ifs no buts. That is a barrier to your understanding of my position if you believe me to be an anti-semite. My fundamental principle is that Israel should never have been created at the expense of the innocent residents of that area, which as it happens was one of the fundamental principles of the Balfour Declaration I might add. All of my Palestinian/Israeli views stem from that one core unshakable principle.ATG wrote:
The difference between most Israeli acts of violence against civilians and most pallestinians acts of violence against civilians is that when its Israel, they are usually cases where people told to flee don't, or people being used as human shields by terrorist are killed.
The pallestinians get their rocks off by blowing up, on purpose, themselfs amongst people they know are not combatents.
The moral high ground is usually, clearly on the side of Israel.
Go a head though, if it makes you feel better, keep hating the Jews.
I notice the vast majority of liberals on these forums are from outside the U.S., mainly Europe, and I wouldn't want to upset any of your traditions.
There is no moral high ground in the shitfest that is Israel/Palestine by the way. That was ceded by both back in the 40s.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-21 08:23:48)
Thats a whole other debate cameron. But, in broad terms Islam is demonstrably an intolerant religion, all that
takes to prove is a copy of the koran.
Edit: Some of the people who practice it are tolerant.
takes to prove is a copy of the koran.
Edit: Some of the people who practice it are tolerant.
Last edited by vedds (2006-10-21 08:21:04)
I hope so! And to the initial question: palestinian fighters killed Mohammed. The israeli weapons dont have the power to make holes into the concrete tube behind which they cover. You can see in the video that there are holes in there. And the israeli army don't fire in automatic mode. only single shot or salvoes.CameronPoe wrote:
Don't worry they're working on the 'no Palestine left' bit.King_County_Downy wrote:
If Israel had the same disregard for innocent life that Hezbollah did, there would be no Palestine left. PERIOD.
http://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geunwQOD … 286029.jpg
And I think before the soldiers in the Outpost would go crazy and concentrate all their fire in automatic mode on 2 civilians far out of reach, they would rather focus on the armed palestinians on the tower building behind them.
The palestinians always make their 'martyrs' themselves! If i would go after the will of Israel, there would be no dead.
I think some of you guys need history 101
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5KGx3iZQwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRjU36qaWyw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5KGx3iZQwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRjU36qaWyw
Last edited by Phantom2828 (2006-10-21 09:28:59)
Usual pathetic drivel from the pro-zionist crowd. Apparently noone lived in Palestine a few years ago... LOL ... hilarious.Phantom2828 wrote:
I think some of you guys need history 101
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5KGx3iZQwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRjU36qaWyw
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-21 10:41:55)
Well the more they take the harder I hope the zionists eventually get nailed. It's inevitable that they will get nailed at some point for their crimes.SineNomine wrote:
I hope so! And to the initial question: palestinian fighters killed Mohammed. The israeli weapons dont have the power to make holes into the concrete tube behind which they cover. You can see in the video that there are holes in there. And the israeli army don't fire in automatic mode. only single shot or salvoes.CameronPoe wrote:
Don't worry they're working on the 'no Palestine left' bit.King_County_Downy wrote:
If Israel had the same disregard for innocent life that Hezbollah did, there would be no Palestine left. PERIOD.
http://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geunwQOD … 286029.jpg
And I think before the soldiers in the Outpost would go crazy and concentrate all their fire in automatic mode on 2 civilians far out of reach, they would rather focus on the armed palestinians on the tower building behind them.
The palestinians always make their 'martyrs' themselves! If i would go after the will of Israel, there would be no dead.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-21 10:43:30)
Okay Cam. I'll bite.CameronPoe wrote:
That is a barrier to your understanding of my position if you believe me to be an anti-semite. My fundamental principle is that Israel should never have been created at the expense of the innocent residents of that area,
Explain to me again; the Wailing Wall, The Dome of The Rock, which one has been there longer?
Which one is more legit?
Which people have a right to be there and which should be purged in a pogrom and driven elsewhere, to where and to what end?
It is typical of your camp to view history from a lense that only views about 70 years into the past.
Fallacy.
The people who have a right to be there were the predominant populace at the time. Both peoples have lived there since the beginning of man. Do you think muslims materialised out of thin air? This religion thing is pointless. Because the arabs didn't build a temple to the sun or whatever shit they were into before islam does not legitimise casting them out. We're talking about the races of people who lived there. Driving the arabs out, resident there as long as any Israeli and then the majority residents, because of German crimes: a crime in itself.ATG wrote:
Okay Cam. I'll bite.CameronPoe wrote:
That is a barrier to your understanding of my position if you believe me to be an anti-semite. My fundamental principle is that Israel should never have been created at the expense of the innocent residents of that area,
Explain to me again; the Wailing Wall, The Dome of The Rock, which one has been there longer?
Which one is more legit?
Which people have a right to be there and which should be purged in a pogrom and driven elsewhere, to where and to what end?
It is typical of your camp to view history from a lense that only views about 70 years into the past.
Fallacy.
The zionists were too weak to stick around during the roman occupation, the arabs weren't. The arabs are continuing their tradition of resistance to oppression. Unlike the Israelis. Pushed from Palestine to Europe, Europe to Palestine: they flee wherever they end up.
If you really want to play the history card then give Israel back to the Cana'anites.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-21 10:54:35)
Should the Southwest USA be given back to Mexico? Spain? Should the whole thing go back to the Native Americans?ATG wrote:
Okay Cam. I'll bite.CameronPoe wrote:
That is a barrier to your understanding of my position if you believe me to be an anti-semite. My fundamental principle is that Israel should never have been created at the expense of the innocent residents of that area,
Explain to me again; the Wailing Wall, The Dome of The Rock, which one has been there longer?
Which one is more legit?
Which people have a right to be there and which should be purged in a pogrom and driven elsewhere, to where and to what end?
It is typical of your camp to view history from a lense that only views about 70 years into the past.
Fallacy.
Typical IDF propaganda. Photo 2 is zoomed in so you can't see the bullet holes. And because the resolution is much lower in the second, it means the image has been cropped. Why? Surely the higher the resolution of the picture the more weight it gives to these claims. Its clearly propaganda. The website thats hosting this drivel is clearly biased.
And I love the was ATG says we hate Jews because we question the acts of the army of an illegally occupying terrorist state, the usual drivel from a media brain washed American. Its an insult to the child's memory that it has been dragged up on propaganda websites and these forums. Let it fucking lay!!! ATG, maybe if you came over here to Europe and watched some of the unbiased reporting & documentaries we see on our un censored TV screens you might learn that the whole state of Israel is in the wrong, period and it wouldn't matter if they were Jews, Muslims, Hindu or atheist, their actions over the years speaks volumes about there character. Its time they and you stopped pulling the 'defenseless Jew', your antisemitic card, its getting very old and tired.
And I love the was ATG says we hate Jews because we question the acts of the army of an illegally occupying terrorist state, the usual drivel from a media brain washed American. Its an insult to the child's memory that it has been dragged up on propaganda websites and these forums. Let it fucking lay!!! ATG, maybe if you came over here to Europe and watched some of the unbiased reporting & documentaries we see on our un censored TV screens you might learn that the whole state of Israel is in the wrong, period and it wouldn't matter if they were Jews, Muslims, Hindu or atheist, their actions over the years speaks volumes about there character. Its time they and you stopped pulling the 'defenseless Jew', your antisemitic card, its getting very old and tired.
Last edited by JahManRed (2006-10-21 11:03:02)
Why don't you read a history book.CameronPoe wrote:
Usual pathetic drivel from the pro-zionist crowd. Apparently noone lived in Palestine a few years ago... LOL ... hilarious.Phantom2828 wrote:
I think some of you guys need history 101
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5KGx3iZQwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRjU36qaWyw
The only people there when the jews started coming were small numbers of farmers.
You do know that palistine accualy means no land.
Hilarious. There is not one topic on earth I have read more on apart from my profession of engineering. Hilarious. What on earth is that second sentence about!! HahahaPhantom2828 wrote:
Why don't you read a history book.CameronPoe wrote:
Usual pathetic drivel from the pro-zionist crowd. Apparently noone lived in Palestine a few years ago... LOL ... hilarious.Phantom2828 wrote:
I think some of you guys need history 101
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5KGx3iZQwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRjU36qaWyw
The only people there when the jews started coming were small numbers of farmers.
You do know that palistine accualy means no land.
Yes I love it when the cons use a self-defeating argument that they can't support when applied to other analgous situations.Masques wrote:
Should the Southwest USA be given back to Mexico? Spain? Should the whole thing go back to the Native Americans?ATG wrote:
Okay Cam. I'll bite.CameronPoe wrote:
That is a barrier to your understanding of my position if you believe me to be an anti-semite. My fundamental principle is that Israel should never have been created at the expense of the innocent residents of that area,
Explain to me again; the Wailing Wall, The Dome of The Rock, which one has been there longer?
Which one is more legit?
Which people have a right to be there and which should be purged in a pogrom and driven elsewhere, to where and to what end?
It is typical of your camp to view history from a lense that only views about 70 years into the past.
Fallacy.
Actually it's derived from Philistine, a non-semitic ethnic group which is itself derived from Philistia the ancient name of a kingdom along the Southeastern Mediterranean coast. In Heberew Peleshseth: פלשתPhantom2828 wrote:
Why don't you read a history book.
The only people there when the jews started coming were small numbers of farmers.
You do know that palistine accualy means no land.
I would like to add that it appears to be the height of insanity to equate modern Jewish peoples with the ancient Israelites and the modern Palestinians/Arabs with Ca'anites, Phoenicians, Assryians, etc.
I doubt many of you that seem to be so fervently arguing Jewish history and who was where at what time even know the difference between Askenazim and Sephardim and how they relate to modern Israel.
I doubt many of you that seem to be so fervently arguing Jewish history and who was where at what time even know the difference between Askenazim and Sephardim and how they relate to modern Israel.
Oh yes Jews are such Zionists. I mean you NEVER see Palestinians blowing themselves up in hospitals, sniping kids, launching Katusha rockets at hospitals, marching down streets with machine guns chanting death to all Jews, brainwashing their kids to become marters for their cause, using children as human shields, using hospitals as cover, telling their kids to blow themselves up for Allah, cutting off heads. I mean you NEVER see any of that.CameronPoe wrote:
Usual pathetic drivel from the pro-zionist crowd. Apparently noone lived in Palestine a few years ago... LOL ... hilarious.Phantom2828 wrote:
I think some of you guys need history 101
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5KGx3iZQwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRjU36qaWyw
The Jews are the ones doing all of that all the photos and news reports are fake propaganda from the EVIL FOX news and that fascist bush trying to control peoples minds to kill the innocent Palestinians that were so horribly kicked out of their land (all 10 of them) by the evil nazi Jews.
Last edited by Phantom2828 (2006-10-21 12:41:30)
1) Not all jews are zionists.Phantom2828 wrote:
Oh yes jews are such zionists. I mean you NEVER see palastinians blowing themselfs up in hospitals, snipeing kids, launching katusha rockets at hostpitals, marching down streets with machine guns chanting death to all jews, brainwashing their kids to become mayters for their cause, useing children as human shields, using hostpitals as cover, telling their kids to blow themselfs up for allah, cutting off heads. I mean you NEVER see any of that.CameronPoe wrote:
Usual pathetic drivel from the pro-zionist crowd. Apparently noone lived in Palestine a few years ago... LOL ... hilarious.Phantom2828 wrote:
I think some of you guys need history 101
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5KGx3iZQwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRjU36qaWyw
The jews are the ones doing all of that all the photos and news reports are fake propaganda from the EVIL FOX news and that fascist bush trying to control peoples minds to kill the innocent palastinians.
2) Do you honestly believe that the Israelis and their terror army do not fortify illegal settlements, confiscate the property of Palestinians, bulldoze homes, launch air raids on heavily populated areas, intern people without cause or trial, carry out beatings, shootings & extra-judicial killings, prevent Palestinians from travelling to and from their places of work, etc.? Is it more respectable to drop a bomb from a plane onto civilians than to fire a mortar into a populated area or something? They're both as bad as each other. The IDF is a terrorist army. All of their atrocities are very well documented by a wide variety of reputable news sources.
3) Stop using the term 'jews' in this conversation. Please use 'zionists' for correctness.
4) You seem to be under the illusion that I think Palestinians don't carry out equally bad things. They do. The difference between me and you is that I believe the cause of the Palestinians is correct.
So I suppose Jews or "Zionists" behead people make their children blow themselves up, brainwash children and hide in hospitals (not to mention a plethora of other things they do)CameronPoe wrote:
1) Not all jews are zionists.Phantom2828 wrote:
Oh yes jews are such zionists. I mean you NEVER see palastinians blowing themselfs up in hospitals, snipeing kids, launching katusha rockets at hostpitals, marching down streets with machine guns chanting death to all jews, brainwashing their kids to become mayters for their cause, useing children as human shields, using hostpitals as cover, telling their kids to blow themselfs up for allah, cutting off heads. I mean you NEVER see any of that.CameronPoe wrote:
Usual pathetic drivel from the pro-zionist crowd. Apparently noone lived in Palestine a few years ago... LOL ... hilarious.
The jews are the ones doing all of that all the photos and news reports are fake propaganda from the EVIL FOX news and that fascist bush trying to control peoples minds to kill the innocent palastinians.
2) Do you honestly believe that the Israelis and their terror army do not fortify illegal settlements, confiscate the property of Palestinians, bulldoze homes, launch air raids on heavily populated areas, intern people without cause or trial, carry out beatings, shootings & extra-judicial killings, prevent Palestinians from travelling to and from their places of work, etc.? Is it more respectable to drop a bomb from a plane onto civilians than to fire a mortar into a populated area or something? They're both as bad as each other. The IDF is a terrorist army. All of their atrocities are very well documented by a wide variety of reputable news sources.
3) Stop using the term 'jews' in this conversation. Please use 'zionists' for correctness.
4) You seem to be under the illusion that I think Palestinians don't carry out equally bad things. They do. The difference between me and you is that I believe the cause of the Palestinians is correct.
Generally no. But that doesn't excuse their own crimes. Crimes are crimes, irrespective of the severity of the crime.Phantom2828 wrote:
So I suppose Jews or "Zionists" behead people make their children blow themselves up, brainwash children and hide in hospitals (not to mention a plethora of other things they do)CameronPoe wrote:
1) Not all jews are zionists.Phantom2828 wrote:
Oh yes jews are such zionists. I mean you NEVER see palastinians blowing themselfs up in hospitals, snipeing kids, launching katusha rockets at hostpitals, marching down streets with machine guns chanting death to all jews, brainwashing their kids to become mayters for their cause, useing children as human shields, using hostpitals as cover, telling their kids to blow themselfs up for allah, cutting off heads. I mean you NEVER see any of that.
The jews are the ones doing all of that all the photos and news reports are fake propaganda from the EVIL FOX news and that fascist bush trying to control peoples minds to kill the innocent palastinians.
2) Do you honestly believe that the Israelis and their terror army do not fortify illegal settlements, confiscate the property of Palestinians, bulldoze homes, launch air raids on heavily populated areas, intern people without cause or trial, carry out beatings, shootings & extra-judicial killings, prevent Palestinians from travelling to and from their places of work, etc.? Is it more respectable to drop a bomb from a plane onto civilians than to fire a mortar into a populated area or something? They're both as bad as each other. The IDF is a terrorist army. All of their atrocities are very well documented by a wide variety of reputable news sources.
3) Stop using the term 'jews' in this conversation. Please use 'zionists' for correctness.
4) You seem to be under the illusion that I think Palestinians don't carry out equally bad things. They do. The difference between me and you is that I believe the cause of the Palestinians is correct.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-21 12:52:17)
Wow that was a dumb thing to say. So if I killed 10 children in cold blood is the same as if I was jay walking?CameronPoe wrote:
Crimes are crimes, irrespective of the severity of the crime.Phantom2828 wrote:
So I suppose Jews or "Zionists" behead people make their children blow themselves up, brainwash children and hide in hospitals (not to mention a plethora of other things they do)CameronPoe wrote:
1) Not all jews are zionists.
2) Do you honestly believe that the Israelis and their terror army do not fortify illegal settlements, confiscate the property of Palestinians, bulldoze homes, launch air raids on heavily populated areas, intern people without cause or trial, carry out beatings, shootings & extra-judicial killings, prevent Palestinians from travelling to and from their places of work, etc.? Is it more respectable to drop a bomb from a plane onto civilians than to fire a mortar into a populated area or something? They're both as bad as each other. The IDF is a terrorist army. All of their atrocities are very well documented by a wide variety of reputable news sources.
3) Stop using the term 'jews' in this conversation. Please use 'zionists' for correctness.
4) You seem to be under the illusion that I think Palestinians don't carry out equally bad things. They do. The difference between me and you is that I believe the cause of the Palestinians is correct.
It only works for similar crimes. Murder = Murder = Murder. Murder does not = jaywalking.Phantom2828 wrote:
Wow that was a dumb thing to say. So if I killed 10 children in cold blood is the same as if I was jay walking?CameronPoe wrote:
Crimes are crimes, irrespective of the severity of the crime.Phantom2828 wrote:
So I suppose Jews or "Zionists" behead people make their children blow themselves up, brainwash children and hide in hospitals (not to mention a plethora of other things they do)
Israeli crimes = wrong.
Palestinian crimes = wrong.
Both wrong. What's your point?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-21 13:08:23)
Isreal crimes = mugging somone.CameronPoe wrote:
It only works for similar crimes. Murder = Murder = Murder. Murder does not = jaywalking.Phantom2828 wrote:
Wow that was a dumb thing to say. So if I killed 10 children in cold blood is the same as if I was jay walking?CameronPoe wrote:
Crimes are crimes, irrespective of the severity of the crime.
Israeli crimes = wrong.
Palestinian crimes = wrong.
Both wrong. What's your point?
Palestinian crimes = murdering kids
Both wrong but the sevarity of one is WAY more
Last edited by Phantom2828 (2006-10-21 13:11:51)
LOL. Hilarious. Since when does 'mugging' involve killing men, women and children (among other Israeli crimes)?Phantom2828 wrote:
Isreal crimes = mugging somone.CameronPoe wrote:
It only works for similar crimes. Murder = Murder = Murder. Murder does not = jaywalking.Phantom2828 wrote:
Wow that was a dumb thing to say. So if I killed 10 children in cold blood is the same as if I was jay walking?
Israeli crimes = wrong.
Palestinian crimes = wrong.
Both wrong. What's your point?
Palestinian crimes = murdering kids
Its called a metaphor.CameronPoe wrote:
LOL. Hilarious. Since when does 'mugging' involve killing men, women and children (among other Israeli crimes)?Phantom2828 wrote:
Israel crimes = mugging someone.CameronPoe wrote:
It only works for similar crimes. Murder = Murder = Murder. Murder does not = jaywalking.
Israeli crimes = wrong.
Palestinian crimes = wrong.
Both wrong. What's your point?
Palestinian crimes = murdering kids
The number and severity of Palestinian crimes greatly outweighs Israeli crimes.