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Reciprocity wrote:

lowing wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

I guess - "Keep you finger out of the trigger guard" is the only real safety.
Doesn't seem to work too well, hence a heavy long trigger is a good fallback.

exactly....remember the video of that "expert" that blew his foot off talking about gun safety to that class full of kids?

yeah, and that was a glock and he broke 3 rules.  if you can't keep your fucking finger off the fucking trigger until you're ready to shoot, you have no business holding or carrying a gun.

yup and he was also an "expert", suppose it was a SA/DA, could be that dumbass might have shot into the crowd instead.

lowing wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

lowing wrote:

exactly....remember the video of that "expert" that blew his foot off talking about gun safety to that class full of kids?

yeah, and that was a glock and he broke 3 rules.  if you can't keep your fucking finger off the fucking trigger until you're ready to shoot, you have no business holding or carrying a gun.

yup and he was also an "expert", suppose it was a SA/DA, could be that dumbass might have shot into the crowd instead.

Do some research.  Glocks are striker fired, not DA/SA.
DA/SA has a long, heavy first shot, so that rather negates your comment about it being "twitchy."

I think something needs to be clarified in this discussion. 

Single Action Only (SA or SAO)= Refers to the single function of the trigger, being to release the hammer.  The hammer must be cocked prior to each discharge which also serves to cycle the ammunition, accomplished manually by operator or mechanically by a reciprocating slide.

Double Action Only (DA or DAO)= Refers to the dual function of the trigger in both cocking and releasing the firing mechanism.  A DAO revolver has no hammer spur making manual cocking impossible.  A DAO semi-auto still uses a reciprocating slide to cycle ammunition but the firing mechanism is not reset with each ignition cycle, always relying on the trigger.

Double Action/Single Action (DA/SA)= Refers to the function of the trigger to both actuate and release the firing mechanism and only releasing the firing mechanism.  The hammer of DA/SA revolvers can be both cocked externally via the hammer spur and internally with the trigger.  DA/SA semi-autos can be operated as a double action as long as the chamber is loaded.  Subsequent operation of the trigger is as a single action because the reciprocation of the slide serves to both cycle the ammunition and cock the firing mechanism.

Preset or striker fired handguns are exclusively semi-automatic.  What separates these from DAO pistols is the inability of the trigger to reset on its own.  Reciprocation of the slide is necessary to reset the trigger which is then able draw back the spring loaded striker and release it, actuating the ignition of a cartridge and repeating the cycle.

there are variations and hybrids but these are the four basic actions of all handguns.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

Any "expert" that can't remember to keep his booger hook off the boom switch, simply isn't an expert.

Not even a qualified amateur.

expert poseur, perhaps.

Then again, I'd consider most 18 year old kids fresh out of Marine or Army basic as better qualified with firearms than your average mid-career police officer.

Nuh-uh. Dilbert knows. 'Cuz he said so. And stuff.

I said neither military trained nor police trained impressed me much.
On the average military are usually a bit better though, but still, occasionally requalifying doesn't really compare with regular training.

so

in other words .............

Dilbert_X wrote:

America sucks

Dilbert_X wrote:

America does suck though.

are you part of the solution, part of the problem, or a disinterested third party?

In other news, a friend of mine just published a book.
http://www.amazon.com/Sporting-Shotgun- … 0956662706

Measurement and analysis of sporting shotgun performance. The book presents results from 1000s of pattern tests that cover a range of shotguns, cartridges, and usage scenarios. The book shows what factors affect performance and how to optimise the shotgun for different disciplines. High speed video and bench tests give a novel insight into how shotguns really work. The results and conclusions in the book are counter to much of the prevailing wisdom and are sure to provoke much thought in readers!

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-09-09 18:56:56)

More about birdshot and clays - I recommend conducting your own research.

this place needs more pictures

I guess I misread what you meant by "suppose it was SA/DA." 
I guess I don't consider 4-5lbs to be "hair trigger."  I've shot down to 2.5lb without any negligent discharges (but I managed to tweak a spring during a detail strip and induce malfunctions, so we set it back to 3.5lbs).  It's not that hard, if you don't start squeezing the trigger until you want to shoot.  I also don't really understand the fear of the SA part in a DA/SA pistol.  You already started shooting...

"Off target, off trigger"

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2011-09-10 10:25:10)

RAIMIUS wrote:

"Off target, off trigger"

Perspective;

In a previous job (Brigade Fire Direction Control), my "trigger pull" was 2oz.
(Control+Action+Enter keys on a keyboard, to send a fire mission to up to 72 mixed M109 self-propelled howitzers & tracked MLRS rocket/missile units.)





A "negligent discharge" on that keyboard is positively NOT an option.

I keep a .32 derringer in my garter belt.  nickel plated with ivory grips.

lowing wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

I guess I misread what you meant by "suppose it was SA/DA." 
I guess I don't consider 4-5lbs to be "hair trigger."  I've shot down to 2.5lb without any negligent discharges (but I managed to tweak a spring during a detail strip and induce malfunctions, so we set it back to 3.5lbs).  It's not that hard, if you don't start squeezing the trigger until you want to shoot.  I also don't really understand the fear of the SA part in a DA/SA pistol.  You already started shooting...

"Off target, off trigger"

I don't have a problem with any weapon. I have always maintained that training and getting comfortable with a weapon is the magic key, however even then, no amount of training can prepare you for your target shooting back. It is at this point that a SA function and a hair trigger might result in unintentional discharge, be it from adrenaline or from forgetting to take your finger off of the trigger as you move to reposition or escape.

I think my Glock is a 5.5 lb trigger pull with a .5 inch trigger travel. My Sig has a 4.5 trigger pull with no travel on the trigger for discharge... Big difference. It is the travel more than the actual pressure it takes that is the bigger difference. The DAO or even strike fire takes a lot of trigger travel to discharge. The single action takes up all that slop, and there for takes up more of the safety margin.

Cool.  We're on the same page.


@ RDX, that's a hell of a hollowpoint!