Thinking that a heavier trigger will make up for the fact that people have their finger on the trigger when they are not willing/ready to fire is a recipe for disaster...especially considering the effects of adrenalin and other stress responses.Dilbert_X wrote:
Which is why I'd prefer noobs rely on a long heavy trigger pull and no safety.RAIMIUS wrote:
Relying on the weight of the trigger or a safety to make up for poor gun handling skills while under stress is a good way to get killed or shoot someone negligently.
Safeties just confuse people and short, light trigger is a recipe for disaster.
So is having your finger on the trigger ready to fire with the safety on... Bottom line, train on the weapon you carry, be it DAO, SA/DA, SAO whatever.RAIMIUS wrote:
Thinking that a heavier trigger will make up for the fact that people have their finger on the trigger when they are not willing/ready to fire is a recipe for disaster...especially considering the effects of adrenalin and other stress responses.Dilbert_X wrote:
Which is why I'd prefer noobs rely on a long heavy trigger pull and no safety.RAIMIUS wrote:
Relying on the weight of the trigger or a safety to make up for poor gun handling skills while under stress is a good way to get killed or shoot someone negligently.
Safeties just confuse people and short, light trigger is a recipe for disaster.
A lot of the time it will, much more so than a single action trigger.RAIMIUS wrote:
Thinking that a heavier trigger will make up for the fact that people have their finger on the trigger when they are not willing/ready to fire is a recipe for disaster...especially considering the effects of adrenalin and other stress responses.
But as lowing says, there's no substitute for training - which many people just aren't going to do.
Fuck Israel
But the discussion re the Beretta was involving the military. Yeah...there's training involved.Dilbert_X wrote:
A lot of the time it will, much more so than a single action trigger.RAIMIUS wrote:
Thinking that a heavier trigger will make up for the fact that people have their finger on the trigger when they are not willing/ready to fire is a recipe for disaster...especially considering the effects of adrenalin and other stress responses.
But as lowing says, there's no substitute for training - which many people just aren't going to do.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Not that much really, for the average service bod.
And we were talking about the average noob who just wants a gun to keep in their pocket, they are unlikely to receive proper training and less likely to practice.
Oh well, not my problem really.
And we were talking about the average noob who just wants a gun to keep in their pocket, they are unlikely to receive proper training and less likely to practice.
Oh well, not my problem really.
Fuck Israel
what gun would you say is best for "just keeping in your pocket"?Dilbert_X wrote:
Not that much really, for the average service bod.
And we were talking about the average noob who just wants a gun to keep in their pocket, they are unlikely to receive proper training and less likely to practice.
Oh well, not my problem really.
DAO revolver?
I personally like the DA/SA system when I'm shooting but w/e, never really considered a carry scenario
Beretta M9 - pull back the hammer with your firing thumb as you draw, if you've hands like mine, or pull the hammer back with your offhand.FEOS wrote:
But the discussion re the Beretta was involving the military. Yeah...there's training involved.
Ta Da! no more DA first shot.
If I may..A DAO semi auto is best ( in my humble opinion). More rounds at the ready, and easier to reload, if nothing else. As far as which one? If you asked 100 people you will get a 100 different answers. A lot of people like the Kahr PM9. 9mm Also the Ruger LCP .380 is very popular. Those are indeed pocket guns. Much bigger and you need to put it in a holster that is strapped to you some how, instead of a pocket holster. My next purchase however will be a 1911. Still recovering form the Sig P220 purchase.Trotskygrad wrote:
what gun would you say is best for "just keeping in your pocket"?Dilbert_X wrote:
Not that much really, for the average service bod.
And we were talking about the average noob who just wants a gun to keep in their pocket, they are unlikely to receive proper training and less likely to practice.
Oh well, not my problem really.
DAO revolver?
I personally like the DA/SA system when I'm shooting but w/e, never really considered a carry scenario
rawr, best "trigger system"lowing wrote:
If I may..A DAO semi auto is best ( in my humble opinion). More rounds at the ready, and easier to reload, if nothing else. As far as which one? If you asked 100 people you will get a 100 different answers. A lot of people like the Kahr PM9. 9mm Also the Ruger LCP .380 is very popular. Those are indeed pocket guns. Much bigger and you need to put it in a holster that is strapped to you some how, instead of a pocket holster. My next purchase however will be a 1911. Still recovering form the Sig P220 purchase.Trotskygrad wrote:
what gun would you say is best for "just keeping in your pocket"?Dilbert_X wrote:
Not that much really, for the average service bod.
And we were talking about the average noob who just wants a gun to keep in their pocket, they are unlikely to receive proper training and less likely to practice.
Oh well, not my problem really.
DAO revolver?
I personally like the DA/SA system when I'm shooting but w/e, never really considered a carry scenario
that's what I meant
of course people are going to have a fuckton of different opinions on what gun is best, I was wondering about the system, haha.
But you answered my question regardless, DAO semi-auto
Trigger system has no impact on magazine capacity or ease of reloading...
IMO, SAO is the best, followed by striker or DAO.
I dislike the 2 trigger weights/pulls of DA/SA systems.
IMO, SAO is the best, followed by striker or DAO.
I dislike the 2 trigger weights/pulls of DA/SA systems.
For CCW I think SAO is too much work, making it harder to reacquire your target after every shot I think a SA/DA that turns into SAO after the first shot, would be a little too twitchy for someone who is about to engage in an action, getting pumped full of adrenaline . At least a DAO gives you a deliberate squeeze of the trigger in order to fire instead of being able to fire just from a mere reflex of a muscle. It is also consistent in trigger pull and once you have trained on it, and get used to it, you would be fine with it, AND STILL not have to worry about an unintentional shooting.RAIMIUS wrote:
Trigger system has no impact on magazine capacity or ease of reloading...
IMO, SAO is the best, followed by striker or DAO.
I dislike the 2 trigger weights/pulls of DA/SA systems.
not with a semi auto. and a single action revolver can be pretty damned dangerous in trained hands.lowing wrote:
I think SAO is too much work, making it harder to reacquire your target after every shot
But as Dilbert says we are talkin' about the average Joe, and not some Top Shots marksmen or Wyatt Earp. For this discussion I am assuming the CCW holder isn't someone that spends hours upon hours at the shooting range every month.Reciprocity wrote:
not with a semi auto. and a single action revolver can be pretty damned dangerous in trained hands.lowing wrote:
I think SAO is too much work, making it harder to reacquire your target after every shot
When I said SAO I was referring to a SAO revolver. My other sentence SA/DA concern would also apply to a SAO semi auto.
if average joe can't competently handle a SAO or SA/DA I would trust them anymore with a glock.
you just described the average cop.For this discussion I am assuming the CCW holder isn't someone that spends hours upon hours at the shooting range every month.
You know that the harder trigger pull on a DAO is also something that helps in not inadvertently squeezing off a round due to reflex or excitement as opposed to the hair trigger of a SA..Why are you arguing this?Reciprocity wrote:
if average joe can't competently handle a SAO or SA/DA I would trust them anymore with a glock.you just described the average cop.For this discussion I am assuming the CCW holder isn't someone that spends hours upon hours at the shooting range every month.
and cops mostly carry DAO.
Because "safer" gun design is not a substitute for experience.lowing wrote:
Why are you arguing this?.
For 'keeping in your pocket' no gun at all, you need a holster. If nothing else it will fill up with dust and fluff.Trotskygrad wrote:
what gun would you say is best for "just keeping in your pocket"?
DAO revolver?
Fuck Israel
WrongDilbert_X wrote:
Not that much really, for the average service bod.
This, however...would be troubling if CCW training requirements weren't what they are.Dilbert_X wrote:
And we were talking about the average noob who just wants a gun to keep in their pocket, they are unlikely to receive proper training and less likely to practice.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
So how much pistol training does the average service bod do?
As I understand it most don't even do pistol training.
And what are CCW requirements, a few hours?
As I understand it most don't even do pistol training.
And what are CCW requirements, a few hours?
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-09-08 03:10:04)
Fuck Israel
If you're in a position that requires you to carry, you have recurring training and qualification requirements. If you're deploying, you have to (re)train and (re)qualify on whatever weapon(s) you will be carrying while deployed. I've been through civilian and military training courses...the military training courses are more in-depth, from my experience.Dilbert_X wrote:
So how much pistol training does the average service bod do?
As I understand it most don't even do pistol training.
Depends on the state, IIRC.Dilbert_X wrote:
And what are CCW requirements, a few hours?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
My experience of service bods, Police etc with pistols has not been good.
Fuck Israel
actually I would disagree, plenty of "experts" have discharged their weapons unintentionally. No matter how "expert" you are, you are still human and subject to human brain farts.Reciprocity wrote:
Because "safer" gun design is not a substitute for experience.lowing wrote:
Why are you arguing this?.
Last edited by lowing (2011-09-08 03:34:50)
I guess - "Keep you finger out of the trigger guard" is the only real safety.
Doesn't seem to work too well, hence a heavy long trigger is a good fallback.
Doesn't seem to work too well, hence a heavy long trigger is a good fallback.
Fuck Israel
exactly....remember the video of that "expert" that blew his foot off talking about gun safety to that class full of kids?Dilbert_X wrote:
I guess - "Keep you finger out of the trigger guard" is the only real safety.
Doesn't seem to work too well, hence a heavy long trigger is a good fallback.
wallet holster, same dealDilbert_X wrote:
For 'keeping in your pocket' no gun at all, you need a holster. If nothing else it will fill up with dust and fluff.Trotskygrad wrote:
what gun would you say is best for "just keeping in your pocket"?
DAO revolver?