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I've never been a fan of Taurus. They're not terrible, but nothing great either. I've never shot their 92 clone.

If you're going to get a 92 clone, definitely get the ATI C92 or full size if you can find one for a reasonable price. The C92 has a shorter barrel, but same grip (takes the full size 92 mags). Mec-gar makes excellent mags, better than Beretta factory (which are probably made by Mec-gar).

The Taurus safety is frame mounted which has fire down and safe up, the opposite of a slide mounted safety. I prefer down fire, up safe as it's more natural (for me) to activate (especially during a draw). But this one feature isn't enough to get the Taurus over the ATI or Beretta.

Trotskygrad wrote:

I heard 7.62×25mm Tokarev is pretty good too, penetrates a lot

it does

Where are you moving to?

krazed wrote:

Trotskygrad wrote:

I heard 7.62×25mm Tokarev is pretty good too, penetrates a lot

it does

I like the CZ-52 a lot

RAIMIUS wrote:

SEREMAKER wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

No.  Just no.

There are PLENTY of US pistol designs. 
The M9?  There are lots of reasons, some questionable, why that was chosen.

M9 - Beretta - Italian manufacturer

Sorry, separate thoughts.  I know Beretta is an Italian company.  That was a big part of the controversy when it was accepted, even though the actual pistols are built in the US.

And the Browning Hi-Power isn't an awesome, reliable 9mm handgun or anything...

Yes, there were many problems with the Beretta contract.

FEOS wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

SEREMAKER wrote:

M9 - Beretta - Italian manufacturer

Sorry, separate thoughts.  I know Beretta is an Italian company.  That was a big part of the controversy when it was accepted, even though the actual pistols are built in the US.

And the Browning Hi-Power isn't an awesome, reliable 9mm handgun or anything...

Yes, there were many problems with the Beretta contract.

Browning designed many great firearms, that's for sure!

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

Sorry, separate thoughts.  I know Beretta is an Italian company.  That was a big part of the controversy when it was accepted, even though the actual pistols are built in the US.

And the Browning Hi-Power isn't an awesome, reliable 9mm handgun or anything...

Yes, there were many problems with the Beretta contract.

They're not bad, I liked my Hipower, and they're made in Belgium so reasonable quality
The cross-bars tend to break in half if you use full-power ammunition for extended periods, and there is no replaceable barrel bushing so once worn out thats it.
A single action auto is not a good daily carry gun for beginners either.

How so?

pansy

RAIMIUS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

A single action auto is not a good daily carry gun for beginners either.

How so?

Before I gave a noob an SA auto I'd give them - in order:
- A double action revolver
- A DAO auto
- An SA/DA auto with a decocking safety
- An auto with one of those stupid gay Glock style 'safety' triggers

Really, if someone inexperienced with firearms has to remember to release the safety to fire, and apply the safety to not fire they're going to forget one of the two, or probably both, when under pressure. And they'll probably forget some time due to simple forgetfulness or carelessness while handling and blow their leg off.

Plus, due to physical response under stress, a short travel light single action trigger is far more likely to result in an accidental discharge when actually in a shooting situation than any of the others above.

Reciprocity wrote:

just imagine shifty or warmin with a 1911.  I'd be runnin for the hills like a raped ape.

600 meters should be a safe distance.

7.3 moa drop with a 300yd zero, for me

RAIMIUS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

How so?

Before I gave a noob an SA auto I'd give them - in order:
- A double action revolver
- A DAO auto
- An SA/DA auto with a decocking safety
- An auto with one of those stupid gay Glock style 'safety' triggers

Really, if someone inexperienced with firearms has to remember to release the safety to fire, and apply the safety to not fire they're going to forget one of the two, or probably both, when under pressure. And they'll probably forget some time due to simple forgetfulness or carelessness while handling and blow their leg off.

Plus, due to physical response under stress, a short travel light single action trigger is far more likely to result in an accidental discharge when actually in a shooting situation than any of the others above.

So you rely on them only pulling the trigger a little for safety?  No thanks!  I agree that deactivating a manual safety before firing has to be trained.  That said, I think there is a MUCH higher probability of an ND with a Glock/xD/M&P style system (no manual safety and light trigger). 


If you cannot consistently follow the Four Rules and execute a safe draw stroke, you should not carry any firearm.  If you can, pick the one that works for you.  The first pistol I CCWed was a 1911, but I had trained on it for a while.  Relying on the weight of the trigger or a safety to make up for poor gun handling skills while under stress is a good way to get killed or shoot someone negligently.

you think A DAO trigger pull is light?  It takes more than pulling the trigger "a little" to fire. Unless you catch the trigger on a tree branch or something you pretty much gotta purposefully pull the trigger to fire.

Dilbert_X wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

A single action auto is not a good daily carry gun for beginners either.

How so?

Before I gave a noob an SA auto I'd give them - in order:
- A double action revolver
- A DAO auto
- An SA/DA auto with a decocking safety
- An auto with one of those stupid gay Glock style 'safety' triggers

Really, if someone inexperienced with firearms has to remember to release the safety to fire, and apply the safety to not fire they're going to forget one of the two, or probably both, when under pressure. And they'll probably forget some time due to simple forgetfulness or carelessness while handling and blow their leg off.

Plus, due to physical response under stress, a short travel light single action trigger is far more likely to result in an accidental discharge when actually in a shooting situation than any of the others above.

Interesting. However, all US service members are trained to fire the Beretta in primarily single-action mode. We learn DA, to understand the higher trigger pull and compensate, but prefer to fire in SA...particularly since every shot after the first is SA anyways.

Stingray24 wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

Hmm..
FN HP MkIII, Benelli M4, or .45 pistol?
decisions.. decisions..

All 3.  Done.

Probably in the order listed.

Good idea