I wasn't aware of that, which is why I asked. Thanks for answering.CameronPoe wrote:
LOL! The CIA only tried to OVERTHROW his DEMOCRATICALLY elected government and NEARLY succeeded!!!!! If that doesn't make you paranoid then I don't know what would!!!Pug wrote:
I'm not actually sure why Chavez is pissed anyway. The same logic of "US stop meddling in other's affairs" also implies "why do you care about the Middle East, Chavez"?
What I mean is ... aka what specifically has the US done to your country that makes the US suck in your mind Chavez????
Last time I checked, he was democratcially elected. And last I checked, I barely have the constitutional right to dissent against my own government thanks to our empirical president and his band of power junkies. Oh yeah, we have poverty too. Maybe we should shift the blame to some other country with oil and rattle their cage to take the focus off our own issues. Oh wait, we can't do that, it would be hypocritical and arrogant...fadedsteve wrote:
You realize that Chavez put into law, a bill outlawing "trash talk" (in papers, media, etc) about the current sitting president. . .
Last time I checked free speech was part of having a democracy. . .
Chavez is a fucking idiot, that wants to stir up some attention! He should fix the unemployment rate, and his poverty sticken people before he starts chucking stones from his glass house!!!!!!!
OH yeah, FYI, Bush is trying to get the same "trash talk" law going himself..by way of silencing blogs, by ending net neutrality, and by other things outlined in the USA Patriot Act limiting free speech. If we could open up Alberto GOnzales' mind, we'd see some frightening things in there that would make Hugo Chavez look like a saint.
Fucking Mexicans...IRONCHEF wrote:
Last time I checked, he was democratcially elected. And last I checked, I barely have the constitutional right to dissent against my own government thanks to our empirical president and his band of power junkies. Oh yeah, we have poverty too. Maybe we should shift the blame to some other country with oil and rattle their cage to take the focus off our own issues. Oh wait, we can't do that, it would be hypocritical and arrogant...fadedsteve wrote:
You realize that Chavez put into law, a bill outlawing "trash talk" (in papers, media, etc) about the current sitting president. . .
Last time I checked free speech was part of having a democracy. . .
Chavez is a fucking idiot, that wants to stir up some attention! He should fix the unemployment rate, and his poverty sticken people before he starts chucking stones from his glass house!!!!!!!
OH yeah, FYI, Bush is trying to get the same "trash talk" law going himself..by way of silencing blogs, by ending net neutrality, and by other things outlined in the USA Patriot Act limiting free speech. If we could open up Alberto GOnzales' mind, we'd see some frightening things in there that would make Hugo Chavez look like a saint.
I am convinced that the path to a new, better and possible world is not capitalism, the path is socialism.
Hugo Chavez
I have said it already, I am convinced that the way to build a new and better world is not capitalism. Capitalism leads us straight to hell.
Hugo Chavez
I don't give two shits what Sheehan thinks of Bush, it isn't Bush she is betraying it is America. In WW2 You had the freedom to think what you wanted as well, but you didn't fly over and have a photo shoot and dinner with Hitler. I don't care what this Lynn Stewart bitch thinks either, she was communicating and passing information for the enemy. period.
Chevez is an enemy of the state and hostile toward the US. Sheehan is guilty of treason.
http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?conten … s/tony1001
THe title of this thread was meant to be a smart ass title. The fact that you get so worked up and defensive over it is funny. Someone made Sheehan a spokes person for you all, and it sure wasn't the conservatives.
But honestly, I believe both of these people should be locked up for a long time for treason. We are at war.
Hugo Chavez
I have said it already, I am convinced that the way to build a new and better world is not capitalism. Capitalism leads us straight to hell.
Hugo Chavez
I don't give two shits what Sheehan thinks of Bush, it isn't Bush she is betraying it is America. In WW2 You had the freedom to think what you wanted as well, but you didn't fly over and have a photo shoot and dinner with Hitler. I don't care what this Lynn Stewart bitch thinks either, she was communicating and passing information for the enemy. period.
Chevez is an enemy of the state and hostile toward the US. Sheehan is guilty of treason.
http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?conten … s/tony1001
THe title of this thread was meant to be a smart ass title. The fact that you get so worked up and defensive over it is funny. Someone made Sheehan a spokes person for you all, and it sure wasn't the conservatives.
But honestly, I believe both of these people should be locked up for a long time for treason. We are at war.
Last edited by lowing (2006-10-17 14:55:04)
I think he's right and wrong. Capitalism, aka "free enterprise" and the ability to make your own business and wealth is fine. But he's dead on that capitalism is leading us straight to hell. Ever heard of greed? Ever heard of the United States of America? Ever wonder who runs this country?lowing wrote:
I am convinced that the path to a new, better and possible world is not capitalism, the path is socialism.
Hugo Chavez
I have said it already, I am convinced that the way to build a new and better world is not capitalism. Capitalism leads us straight to hell.
Hugo Chavez
http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?conten … s/tony1001
America is based on the premise that you are FREE to SUCCEED or FAIL in life as you see fit. YOu can be anything you want, live where ever you want, make as much as you want or as little. It is all up to you.IRONCHEF wrote:
I think he's right and wrong. Capitalism, aka "free enterprise" and the ability to make your own business and wealth is fine. But he's dead on that capitalism is leading us straight to hell. Ever heard of greed? Ever heard of the United States of America? Ever wonder who runs this country?lowing wrote:
I am convinced that the path to a new, better and possible world is not capitalism, the path is socialism.
Hugo Chavez
I have said it already, I am convinced that the way to build a new and better world is not capitalism. Capitalism leads us straight to hell.
Hugo Chavez
http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?conten … s/tony1001
It is a system I support.
Why d oyou liberals think that govt. is set up to take care of you. YOu need to learn to take of yourselves and stop looking toward the govt. for all your needs.
Last edited by lowing (2006-10-17 15:07:37)
It's called having a difference of opinion Lowing. And I doubt all 'liberals' think that the govt. is set up to take care of you. I believe it is set up in part to regulate the society of the country, to keep it healthy, and make sure that the country progesses both economically and technologically. It's a balancing act - not a one-way ticket to communism. You seem to believe the one-way ticket to absolute capitalism is 'healthy' - a nation operating to such absolute rules would soon fall foul of the growing numbers of impoverished proles wishing to overthrow the corrupt monopolistic machine absolutist capitalism breeds.lowing wrote:
Why d oyou liberals think that govt. is set up to take care of you. YOu need to learn to take of yourselves and stop looking toward the govt. for all your needs.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-17 15:14:16)
America is based on the right to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness actually. However, because of obvious perversion because of the capitalist nature of our people (standard oil, telco giants, anti-competative practice, political special interests, etc), it's easy to come to the conclusion that capitalism is a bad policy. I hate it sometimes. I'm gonig to be starting a business, but the walmart down the street will surely make my business unsuccessful like it has done to already established mom and pop businesses who can't afford to rape their margins to compete..and close down.
so it is your opinion that you should not be responsible for your ownn successes or failures, that the govt. should be?? Yeah I guess yer right, that is one hell of an opinionCameronPoe wrote:
It's called having a difference of opinion Lowing.lowing wrote:
Why d oyou liberals think that govt. is set up to take care of you. YOu need to learn to take of yourselves and stop looking toward the govt. for all your needs.
It is that very compititon that makes America work. If you are worried about Wal-MArt already, maybe you need to move your store farther down the road. Or, in America, you could build a store t ocompete wit hWal-Mart.......You are after all, free to do so.IRONCHEF wrote:
America is based on the right to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness actually. However, because of obvious perversion because of the capitalist nature of our people (standard oil, telco giants, anti-competative practice, political special interests, etc), it's easy to come to the conclusion that capitalism is a bad policy. I hate it sometimes. I'm gonig to be starting a business, but the walmart down the street will surely make my business unsuccessful like it has done to already established mom and pop businesses who can't afford to rape their margins to compete..and close down.
What a retarded statement. Why must you assume I believe in absolutes? A balance should be struck between government intervention to maintain a healthy society and government facilitation of entrepreneurialism to advance the country economically and technologically. The world really is black and white to you, isn't it?lowing wrote:
so it is your opinion that you should not be responsible for your ownn successes or failures, that the govt. should be?? Yeah I guess yer right, that is one hell of an opinionCameronPoe wrote:
It's called having a difference of opinion Lowing.lowing wrote:
Why d oyou liberals think that govt. is set up to take care of you. YOu need to learn to take of yourselves and stop looking toward the govt. for all your needs.
Lowing: please answer me my you make such ridiculous assumptions about so called 'liberals'? Did you get fucked in the arse by one when you were a little kid or something?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-17 15:20:32)
As strong economically, industrially and, technically as America is.........It would seem YOUR discription is EXACTLY what we have Cam. Now, all I am saying is, with all the opportunities availiable here, with all the grants, and student loans available here. If you insist on sitting on your ass complaining that "the man" is keeping you down, you deserve to be left behind.CameronPoe wrote:
What a retarded statement. Why must you assume I believe in absolutes? You strike a balance between government intervention to maintain a healthy society and government facilitation of entrepreneurialism that advances the country economically and technologically. The world really is black and white to you, isn't it?lowing wrote:
so it is your opinion that you should not be responsible for your ownn successes or failures, that the govt. should be?? Yeah I guess yer right, that is one hell of an opinionCameronPoe wrote:
It's called having a difference of opinion Lowing.
Last edited by lowing (2006-10-17 15:22:31)
You only measure things in terms of economy, industry and technology? Ever heard of the common good? Ever been to Sweden? Won't see many ghettos and the like there. Why? HEALTHY BALANCE between socialism and capitalism. And guess what? They all have mp3 players and fast cars and all the rest of that bullshit that you capitalists believe means so much.lowing wrote:
As strong economically, industrially and, technically as America is.........It would seem YOUR discription is EXACTLY what we have Cam. Now, all I am saying is, with all the opportunities availiable here, with all the grants, and student loans available here. If you insist on sitting on your ass complaining that "the man" is keeping you down, you deserve to be left behind.CameronPoe wrote:
What a retarded statement. Why must you assume I believe in absolutes? You strike a balance between government intervention to maintain a healthy society and government facilitation of entrepreneurialism that advances the country economically and technologically. The world really is black and white to you, isn't it?lowing wrote:
so it is your opinion that you should not be responsible for your ownn successes or failures, that the govt. should be?? Yeah I guess yer right, that is one hell of an opinion
No Cameron I didn't. I dispise lazy people in America that refuse to take care of themselves and expects everyone else that works hard for their possessions to share with THEM. In the form of higher taxes for the rich, higher credits for the poor increased SS that I will never see. Higher taxes for medical and retirement programs because the lazy didn't save or couldn't save. Also people that go and have dinner with enemies of America or passes corrospondants to and from known terrorists........Guess what Cam people that support this shit are liberals. Read back you will see the pattern.CameronPoe wrote:
What a retarded statement. Why must you assume I believe in absolutes? A balance should be struck between government intervention to maintain a healthy society and government facilitation of entrepreneurialism to advance the country economically and technologically. The world really is black and white to you, isn't it?lowing wrote:
so it is your opinion that you should not be responsible for your ownn successes or failures, that the govt. should be?? Yeah I guess yer right, that is one hell of an opinionCameronPoe wrote:
It's called having a difference of opinion Lowing.
Lowing: please answer me my you make such ridiculous assumptions about so called 'liberals'? Did you get fucked in the arse by one when you were a little kid or something?
The government is a tool to make the life of the masses better. The government is there for you to use what you can. A tool is something you use to make the task easier and/or more manageable. The moment the government stopped being a tool for the masses to use, it became a tool for the minority (read-rich, connected people) to exploit.lowing wrote:
Why d oyou liberals think that govt. is set up to take care of you. YOu need to learn to take of yourselves and stop looking toward the govt. for all your needs.
A few things I expect from my government-
Freedom to think and speak what I want
Freedom to do anything I please which does not harm any other individual
An across the board respect for human rights
An across the board respect for civil rights
A few things I actually receive from my government-
Taxes I have to pay going to things I really don't want them to (Military R&D, big business subsidies)
A ceiling on my civil and human rights
Unnecessary censorship of media
Let's get one thing straight- I have no illusions that the government is set up to take care of me. I KNOW the government is set up to take care of the well-connected and rich, the same people you vote into office, and the same people that take your money (taxes) and put it in their bank account.
Thats true Cam, Sweden sure does enjoy all the "bullshit" that was developed and invented in the US. I have no respect for any countries that maintain neutrality, and reap the rewards and freedoms that everyone else had fought and died for. Sweden was a Nazi collaborator during WW2, because they are best friends with whoever threatens them the most...Nothing like NOT contributing to the world and sucking up all the benifits from it, hmmmmm sounds like a familiar pattern, no wonder you mentioned it.....In short............Fuck Sweden.CameronPoe wrote:
You only measure things in terms of economy, industry and technology? Ever heard of the common good? Ever been to Sweden? Won't see many ghettos and the like there. Why? HEALTHY BALANCE between socialism and capitalism. And guess what? They all have mp3 players and fast cars and all the rest of that bullshit that you capitalists believe means so much.lowing wrote:
As strong economically, industrially and, technically as America is.........It would seem YOUR discription is EXACTLY what we have Cam. Now, all I am saying is, with all the opportunities available here, with all the grants, and student loans available here. If you insist on sitting on your ass complaining that "the man" is keeping you down, you deserve to be left behind.CameronPoe wrote:
What a retarded statement. Why must you assume I believe in absolutes? You strike a balance between government intervention to maintain a healthy society and government facilitation of entrepreneurialism that advances the country economically and technologically. The world really is black and white to you, isn't it?
This is not true and you know it. YOu are free t obecome rich, WHENEVER you decide you have the motovation to do so. YOu honestly think the business owners sit on their asses and do nothing?? THey put in more hours at their business than you do at whatevver job you have, they work weekends as well as weekdays. THey are building something. They are also, as they get bigger, employ people like you and me to help their business grow. Why shouldn't they be rewared for it? WHat DID you risk in investing your life and your money into his business? If you think getting rich is so fiuckin' easy, why are you not rich now??KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
The government is a tool to make the life of the masses better. The government is there for you to use what you can. A tool is something you use to make the task easier and/or more manageable. The moment the government stopped being a tool for the masses to use, it became a tool for the minority (read-rich, connected people) to exploit.lowing wrote:
Why d oyou liberals think that govt. is set up to take care of you. YOu need to learn to take of yourselves and stop looking toward the govt. for all your needs.
A few things I expect from my government-
Freedom to think and speak what I want
Freedom to do anything I please which does not harm any other individual
An across the board respect for human rights
An across the board respect for civil rights
A few things I actually receive from my government-
Taxes I have to pay going to things I really don't want them to (Military R&D, big business subsidies)
A ceiling on my civil and human rights
Unnecessary censorship of media
Let's get one thing straight- I have no illusions that the government is set up to take care of me. I KNOW the government is set up to take care of the well-connected and rich, the same people you vote into office, and the same people that take your money (taxes) and put it in their bank account.
If you don't like neutrality then take Canada as an example. It has a better quality of life than USA and has all of the 'luxuries' of the USA, despite the fact they commit the 'no-no' in your book of striking a healthier balance between socialism and capitalism. The society is better because people can still make something of themselves and progress in life economically, etc. having been given a step up by their government (well in essence the entire tax-paying population) in terms of healthcare, education and such like. Everyone progresses TOGETHER. Your greed is shocking. I guess you weren't the kid in school who would share his sweets with the others. Your seeming belief that the US is the only country to engage in 'R&D' is quite shocking too. Japanese companies generally make most products far better than any US company.lowing wrote:
Thats true Cam, Sweden sure does enjoy all the "bullshit" that was developed and invented in the US. I have no respect for any countries that maintain neutrality, and reap the rewards and freedoms that everyone else had fought and died for. Sweden was a Nazi collaborator during WW2, because they are best friends with whoever threatens them the most...Nothing like NOT contributing to the world and sucking up all the benifits from it, hmmmmm sounds like a familiar pattern, no wonder you mentioned it.....In short............Fuck Sweden.CameronPoe wrote:
You only measure things in terms of economy, industry and technology? Ever heard of the common good? Ever been to Sweden? Won't see many ghettos and the like there. Why? HEALTHY BALANCE between socialism and capitalism. And guess what? They all have mp3 players and fast cars and all the rest of that bullshit that you capitalists believe means so much.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-10-17 15:51:34)
Tell that to a bum on the street.lowing wrote:
YOu are free t obecome rich, WHENEVER you decide you have the motovation to do so.
I never said I was not free to become "rich". I am rich as far as I am concerned. No amount of money will make me "rich". Also, I never said business owners sit on their asses, that is what you think I think.lowing wrote:
This is not true and you know it. YOu are free t obecome rich, WHENEVER you decide you have the motovation to do so. YOu honestly think the business owners sit on their asses and do nothing?? THey put in more hours at their business than you do at whatevver job you have, they work weekends as well as weekdays. THey are building something. They are also, as they get bigger, employ people like you and me to help their business grow. Why shouldn't they be rewared for it? WHat DID you risk in investing your life and your money into his business? If you think getting rich is so fiuckin' easy, why are you not rich now??
I don't even understand how you read my post and come back with talk about business owners.
I have respect for anyone that is motivated to make their life better. I have no respect for people who will do anything (even cheat a few hundred thousand people out of money by inflating stock value) to get more money.
Lowing, please write an intelligible response debating the merits of what I said, or don't bother at all. Clearly you have a view in your head of me which is not at all accurate.
PS. A little time spent proofreading what you write would make all the difference in the world in the way you come across.
Guess what Cam, Japan is a Capitalist society. What has Canada contributed??CameronPoe wrote:
If you don't like neutrality then take Canada as an example. It has a better quality of life than USA and has all of the 'luxuries' of the USA, despite the fact they commit the 'no-no' in your book of striking a healthier balance between socialism and capitalism. The society is better because people can still make something of themselves and progress in life having been given a step up by their government (well in essence the entire tax-paying population) in terms of healthcare, education and such like. Your greed is shocking. I guess you weren't the kid in school who would share his sweets with the others. Your seeming belief that the US is the only country to engage in 'R&D' is quite shocking too. Japanese companies generally make most products far better than any US company.lowing wrote:
Thats true Cam, Sweden sure does enjoy all the "bullshit" that was developed and invented in the US. I have no respect for any countries that maintain neutrality, and reap the rewards and freedoms that everyone else had fought and died for. Sweden was a Nazi collaborator during WW2, because they are best friends with whoever threatens them the most...Nothing like NOT contributing to the world and sucking up all the benifits from it, hmmmmm sounds like a familiar pattern, no wonder you mentioned it.....In short............Fuck Sweden.CameronPoe wrote:
You only measure things in terms of economy, industry and technology? Ever heard of the common good? Ever been to Sweden? Won't see many ghettos and the like there. Why? HEALTHY BALANCE between socialism and capitalism. And guess what? They all have mp3 players and fast cars and all the rest of that bullshit that you capitalists believe means so much.
I am not talking about greed Cam, I am talking about being responsible for yourself in a country you are FREE do as much or as little as you want. I am only saying I don't give a rats ass about those that do not contribute and expect a free ride. That isn't a greedy attitude Cam. Not really sure how many times I have to say it. You accuse me of being black and white, yet after you have heard me say the above, several times in several differnet threads, you refuse to accknowledge it, and just say that I am out for myself. You Cam, are the one who is seeing in black and white and absolutes.
lol even you call him a bum. If he has 2 arms and 2 legs and a hesalthy mind he has no reason to be living on the street.Mexicans move here by the droves, illegally, can't even speak English and have a job in 10 minutes. It is true, the "bum" might have to work his ass off, but if it good enoufh for the illegals it should be good enough for him.CameronPoe wrote:
Tell that to a bum on the street.lowing wrote:
YOu are free t obecome rich, WHENEVER you decide you have the motovation to do so.
"Let's get one thing straight- I have no illusions that the government is set up to take care of me. I KNOW the government is set up to take care of the well-connected and rich," <----- your wordsKEN-JENNINGS wrote:
I never said I was not free to become "rich". I am rich as far as I am concerned. No amount of money will make me "rich". Also, I never said business owners sit on their asses, that is what you think I think.lowing wrote:
This is not true and you know it. YOu are free t obecome rich, WHENEVER you decide you have the motovation to do so. YOu honestly think the business owners sit on their asses and do nothing?? THey put in more hours at their business than you do at whatevver job you have, they work weekends as well as weekdays. THey are building something. They are also, as they get bigger, employ people like you and me to help their business grow. Why shouldn't they be rewared for it? WHat DID you risk in investing your life and your money into his business? If you think getting rich is so fiuckin' easy, why are you not rich now??
I don't even understand how you read my post and come back with talk about business owners.
I have respect for anyone that is motivated to make their life better. I have no respect for people who will do anything (even cheat a few hundred thousand people out of money by inflating stock value) to get more money.
Lowing, please write an intelligible response debating the merits of what I said, or don't bother at all. Clearly you have a view in your head of me which is not at all accurate.
PS. A little time spent proofreading what you write would make all the difference in the world in the way you come across.
How else am I supposed to take this post if not assuming you think the govt. panders to the rich and shits on everoneelse?? THe rich put this country to work, not the poor
Lowing. I am well aware of your view. The view is a very binary view. ABSOLUTE capitalism. Absolutism = black/white view. You can't seem to acknowledge the benefit of melding two views or see the flaws in your own view. America is not the America you think it is - there is some health care and there are some tax-funded benefits and safety nets there for US citizens you know. Take them away as you appear to be suggesting - result: anarchy. I can see both sides of the spectrum thank you very much. That's why I'm in the centre. I see the dangers of both absolutist views.lowing wrote:
Guess what Cam, Japan is a Capitalist society. What has Canada contributed??
I am not talking about greed Cam, I am talking about being responsible for yourself in a country you are FREE do as much or as little as you want. I am only saying I don't give a rats ass about those that do not contribute and expect a free ride. That isn't a greedy attitude Cam. Not really sure how many times I have to say it. You accuse me of being black and white, yet after you have heard me say the above, several times in several differnet threads, you refuse to accknowledge it, and just say that I am out for myself. You Cam, are the one who is seeing in black and white and absolutes.
What has Canada contributed? Why do you ask such retarded questions? Canada have probably contributed loads. The M1 Garand? Kerosene? World's first voice message? The CPR mannequin? The silicon chip blood analyser? Gas Mask? Basketball? The zip? The snowblower? The snowmobile? The phone? Alexander Graham Bell was Canadian for christ's sake!!!! Get with it Lowing.
PS Japan's economy FAILED last decade and is struggling to recover. Negative growth for SEVERAL years.
PPS Ireland has the best performing economy in the whole of Europe. And guess what? It's governmental policies lie somewhere in the middle of the political spectrum. I got my entire education right through to my degree - for free, in fact I was given a grant to do it because my parents were low-income. If I fall ill I will get treated and not have to pay a cent. When I retire I will get a satisfactory pension from the state (although I contribute a sizeable chunk of my salary towards supplementing that pension). All this despite the fact that taxes have fallen continuously over the past 15 years. And guess what? I own more meaningless bullshit mp3 players and other gadgets and trinkets than I can shake a stick at. The best thing about the society is that NO-ONE is left behind. You only get that from a balanced approach to government. Rampant capitalism just results in widening gulfs between rich and poor perpetuated by the monopolies that get created.
The point being, that walmart (who cost americans plenty in taxes each year because they do not offer healthcare to their employees), who uses a corrupt business plan, exploits the capitalistic generosity of our country, and in return, they cause poverty, exploitation of child labor, and other such plagues...just to save a few cents. It's called greed, and it's what makes US capitalism so corrupt and undesirable. There's reasons why people protest every new walmart that goes up. In a perfect world, a walmart type store would see where they're needed, not where they could draw loyalty from other businesses to their own...that anti-competative snuffing out of family owned business is what ruins the american dream.lowing wrote:
It is that very compititon that makes America work. If you are worried about Wal-MArt already, maybe you need to move your store farther down the road. Or, in America, you could build a store t ocompete wit hWal-Mart.......You are after all, free to do so.IRONCHEF wrote:
America is based on the right to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness actually. However, because of obvious perversion because of the capitalist nature of our people (standard oil, telco giants, anti-competative practice, political special interests, etc), it's easy to come to the conclusion that capitalism is a bad policy. I hate it sometimes. I'm gonig to be starting a business, but the walmart down the street will surely make my business unsuccessful like it has done to already established mom and pop businesses who can't afford to rape their margins to compete..and close down.