Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6773|Dallas

Kmarion wrote:

Why invade for oil?.. seriously. Are you suggesting we take out OPEC all together? Do you think they are just going to stop giving us the OIL we need? I have got news for you, their only major export is oil. When they stop selling it to us they stop existing not from invasion but from poverty. Can someone please explain this big gaping hole in logic? Oil producing nations want to sell us oil just as much as we want to buy it. They only turn the faucet off to keep the market stable. When has the US ever been denied Oil? OPEC controls the market. Refining cost will always be the only control we have. We buy our oil from Iraq still.
You obviously didn't read the reply where I stated that we would continue to buy from "OPEC" and cash in on the Trans-Arabian pipeline.

But whatever.
darad0
Member
+40|6629|Centreville, VA

SpanktorTheGreat wrote:

On a side note: The Kingdom of Heaven will never fall to corruption or complacency.
Religion is a modern farce; just another method of control.
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6365|CA, USA

Cougar wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

I am going to lose my mind if one more person says that we went to war with Iraq for oil. Do you honestly believe that we are recieving any oil from Iraq?  I have heard this many times, but never with facts to back it up with that are not purely circumstantial.  Why don't you try to back that up with facts.  Even if we were getting oil free from Iraq, it would do nothing to replace the trillions of dollars spent on the war(Not to mention how terrible it would look to the rest of the world and to the rest of America if Bush did that).
Do you think it's just gonna "pop up" all ready to go?  Do you think there is a big gas station in the middle of Iraq that you just pump the fuel out of?  No.  They need to build the infastructure to get the oil out, which takes years.  Think about how long it took to build the Alaskan Pipeline, and then note, those guys weren't getting shot at and having cars explode around them while they were building.  Also note who the largest contracter, with the most contracts in Iraq is......Haliburton.  What does Haliburton specilize in?  Oil and Natural Gas infastructure construction.  Who owns Haliburton?  Dick Cheney the Vice fucking President.  Also, the overtaking of Iraq would give the U.S. military the oppurtunity to build bases in Iraq, which borders Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, two of the biggest oil producers in the world.  If anything were to happen in those two countries, we would be right there, waiting.  Also, who are the Saudi and Kuwaiti's biggest customer?  You got it, U.S.A. 

I could also go into the plans Haliburton has laid out for a pipeline through Iraq and Afghanistan that would run into China, who at the moment is going through an industrial revolution and has a high demand for oil.  That cash would more than make up for the amount of money spent on the Iraq war and Afghani war combined.  Not to mention the U.S. would be set on oil for the next 20 to 30 years.

But you're right, all the stuff I said above is just poppycock and "kookoo konspiracy" non-sense, which makes absoultly no sense what so ever, because after all, a bunch of rich bankers and oil barons that just happen to run the most powerful country in the world would NEVER do anything dasterdly like that because they are all good ole boys and "good christians".

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Why would the government destroy our economy and spend billions on a war just rof oil?  If we were taaking any significant amount of oil from Iraq the media would jump all over it.  I found the rest of that speech to be overdramatic, but nice job not mentioning parties. 
Perhaps, because the end profit will be more than the initial deficit.
Are you going to buy some Halliburton stock (ticker symbol is HAL)?  Sounds like a sure thing.  when i looked at the past few years, however, Halliburton hasn't been going up like gangbusters.  5 years back, this is of course a different story. 

Other interesting persons who own Halliburton?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/no … sstock.htm

Last edited by CaptainSpaulding71 (2007-07-11 08:43:32)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6659|USA

Cougar wrote:

fas‧cism  /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ [fash-iz-uhm]
--"Fascism is a radical political ideology that combines elements of corporatism, authoritarianism, nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism."

Hi, I am an American.  I live in Texas, I have a job, I live in a one bedroom apartment, I own a vehicle, I have a girlfriend whom I love very much, I enjoy everyday freedoms and rights that the brave men who came before me fought and died to give to me.  I am a law abiding citizen, I vote, I pay taxes, I do jury duty, I served in my country's armed forces.  I love my family, my friends, my neighbors, my country.  Hi, I am an American. 

If any of our forefathers could come back to the realm of the living and read the above paragraph, it would instill a sense of victory, accomplishment, success and satisfaction to know that what they wanted to accomplish back in 1776 for their children and children's children, had succeeded.  A better life, free from tyranny, oppression and domination.  A country who's masses governed the government, instead of the government governing the masses.  A nation who's number one priority was the freedom and prosperity of it's people.

Hopefully it would be the only paragraph that they would read.  I have the distinct feeling if they were to read an hours worth of CNN or go back and read over the constitution and bill of rights with all of its new amendments that they would either have a heart attack on the spot or start forming a militia to take over Washington.

The government has almost completely become exactly what they hoped it would not.  Corruption has become widespread, it is no longer which candidate is best but rather, who has more money.  The government no longer prints it's own money but rather, a private bank called the "Federal Reserve" owned by a conglomerate of wealthy bankers controls the nations currency.  Americans are being charged a labor tax, which is unlawful and forced to fill out 1040's that are enforced by a agency (IRS) that has no legal backing to enforce anything.  Not only are 1040's practically illegal, just filling one out is in violation of the 5th amendment, because you have to fill it out and if you lie you go to jail, but if you have done something wrong and you put it there, you still go to jail, in other words, you are incriminating yourself.  We have a two party system that works against itself, something Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and John Adams all warned about.  We have an intelligence agency that answers to no one but itself, making it above the law and a supreme court who's verdicts and judgments are negated and voided by lower courts.  We have had consecutive administrations that spy on the people illegally and then answer to know one when caught, administrations that pass bills like the Patriot Act that nullify most of our rights listed on the Bill of Rights, in the name of safety.

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin

What do you honestly think a founding father would do if they came to the future and set eyes upon us?  Sit and think about that for a minute.  Forget about being a Democrat, Republican, Conservative, Liberal.  Remember to be an American and sit there and think hard about what they would do.

Now that you are done thinking about that, go back and re-read the definition of fascism.  Tell me that doesn't sound an awful lot like what America is becoming.  All of the parts of the definition, corporatism, authoritarianism, nationalism, militarism, anti-anarchism, anti-communism and anti-liberalism are all part of our government, economy and social structure and WE DON'T EVEN NOTICE.  Sometimes I think most people just don't care anymore.  We as a nation have become so fat and lazy that we will endure anything so long as we have a comfy couch and a HDTV to come home too.  It makes me so angry to know that if something were to happen, no one would do anything about it because it would mean that their nice pleasant little lives would get interrupted and they might miss an episode of 24 or American Idol, they wouldn't get their gas for under 2.50 a gallon and Domino's pizza would no longer deliver to their door.

I just went out on a break with a co-worker.  I asked this co-worker the same question about what the forefathers came back and saw the state of the union, what would they think.  He went on about how it really wouldn't hold any bearing into today's society and things of that nature, but before he could finish I asked him if he would even care what they thought.  He said, no.  I then asked him if he had ever read the constitution or the Bill of Rights.  He said he had read the Bill but not the constitution.  I then asked him if he even cared what was in it and he said, no.  I'd would dare to say 9 out of 10 Americans have never given it a read.  This piece of paper pretty much says what you can and can't do, from the time you wake up until the time you go to sleep and he doesn't care, as most Americans probably do not care.  A simple piece of paper.  A piece of paper that protects you from tyranny, oppression, a piece of paper that gave a nation rights that no other nation at the time had for its people and soon gave the rest of the world a rolemodel for freeing itself.  A piece of paper that we thought so important that we preserved it for almost 300 years.  He doesn't care.  Most Americans, don't....care.  Ask these same people how much they would care if that piece of paper no longer existed and we lived in a Police State or Fascist State such as Nazi Germany or Communist Russia and all of the sudden they are gung-ho American protectors of the freedom.  Then you will care.  Then it will be to late.  You cannot change a democracy using the rights given to you by the constitution if it no longer exists.

Well it isn't going to matter what YOU think before to long.  Honestly, after sitting here reading articles, books, research papers, watching documentary's and other various forms of information, I as an American can only see the next 10 years going 1 of 2 ways.

1. A George Orwell Nightmare Pretext
Government issued ID cards are slated to be out and issued by the end of 2008.  A national ID card would be something similar to a drivers license with the difference being, you HAVE to have it on you at all times.  You cannot operate a vehicle, go into a federal building, board a plane, get a job, get medical attention, insurance, a bank account (or any banking services), use public services or even buy goods.  These cards will also be fitted with microchips that act almost like miniature GPS systems, making your whereabouts known to anyone who wishes to know.  Take the card away and you take a persons freedoms away.  So lets say hypothetically that Pres Bush decides to declare Martial Law under the pretext of a terrorist attack (which now, under the patriot act he can do without the approval of congress and the duration can last up to 6 months without any kind of reasoning or review) and the government disables the cards.  Now you can no longer draw money from the bank, put gas in your car, buy food.  You have basically been unwittingly bent to the will of the government.  What happens after that is up to whoever is in charge at that point.

(Also, think of a military draft.  They issue one, you don't show up and all of the sudden you can no longer function, not to mention they know where you are.)

"All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome.--George Orwell"

2. The Second Great Depression
It's a known fact that America has hit it's Oil Peak.  This means we are using more oil than we are bringing in, which by logic, means we are going to run out.  Do you think that all that is going on in the Middle East is to fight Terrorism?  Get over yourself, it's for OIL.  Oil is the one and only thing that would make present day America invade another country illegally and under false pre-text.  It's a resource war, and you're going to be seeing a lot more of them in the next decade as oil supplies dry up around the world.  The next oil shortage is going to make the 1970's oil crisis look like a cake walk.  There will not be any relief because there will be no more oil.  The first things you will see are unusually high gas prices, followed by trucks on the side of the road, full of goods, broke down because they have ran out of diesel.  Next, airliners will go bankrupt and there will be next to no airliners able to operate, the ones that are able to stay running will be charging astronomical airliner fees just to stay in the air.  Next you will see the price of food go up as farm equipment can no longer operate and trucks can no longer ship food to markets, this will force massive inflation on all markets thus causing lay-offs and mass un-employment.  Wall Street will all but collapse and the price of the dollar will plummet.  Around this time, expect another "terrorist attack" from another foreign country (more than likely with alot of oil) and hence we invade another country and have another war.  This will probably force a draft.  It's going to be Vietnam in 1934, present day.

"When the well's dry, we know the worth of water.--Ben Franklin"

What can we do about it?  Rather ask yourself what you want to do about it.  Maybe you want to sit there and endure whatever comes your way in the hope that it doesn't disrupt your perfect little lives.  Maybe you want to take the approach I took by trying to inform people, or maybe you want to get into politics.  Perhaps you, like very very few American's this day in age, will be the modern day minutemen, ready on a moments notice to defend your country from all enemies, foreign and domestic.  Whatever the case, stop bickering with each other over whether democrats or republicans are right or wrong, and start working together to ensure that there will still be democrats and republicans when you wake up in the morning.  When the day comes when you realize American democracy is gone, it's too late.

"A tragic situation exists precisely when virtue does not triumph but when it is still felt that man is nobler than the forces which destroy him.--George Orwell"

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.--Edmund Burke"




--Cougar
Very good post Cougar and I agree with the majority of it. However, as I read a few thoughts came to mind.

1. If our fore- fathers came back to life today, I think the first thing they would be asking is, "Where the hell are all the slaves." Or, "We freed who??!!

2. You do paint a very grim future for us and you have some incredibly valid points. It is just as I read your post I was thinking of all the improvements our existence has brought to the world. I thought of our great strides in civil rights and women's rights. How tolerant our nation has become of others. As a matter of fact I will argue that a lot of our problems have stemmed from too much trust and tolerance of others who have no interest in the future or the well being of our nation.

Your thoughts??   +1 for a great post however.

Last edited by lowing (2007-07-11 09:20:30)

d4rkst4r
biggie smalls
+72|6461|Ontario, Canada
Cougar --> your first path basically sums up the book of revelations and the anti-christ.
"you know life is what we make it, and a chance is like a picture, it'd be nice if you just take it"
heggs
Spamalamadingdong
+581|6397|New York
Sadly, you're right. Everything is going down the shitter, and going down fast. We really need to address these issues before it's too late.

Also, this was a very well though-out, well written post.
Remember Me As A Time Of Day
Jepeto87
Member
+38|6693|Dublin
Quoting Orwell leaves you open to the following accusation: Are you a communist?!

Only joking I love his work and that was a great well taught out post!


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear."
George Orwell

Last edited by Jepeto87 (2007-07-11 10:42:30)

Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6773|Dallas

lowing wrote:

Very good post Cougar and I agree with the majority of it. However, as I read a few thoughts came to mind.

1. If our fore- fathers came back to life today, I think the first thing they would be asking is, "Where the hell are all the slaves." Or, "We freed who??!!
That may be true, but it wouldn't take long for them to see what a mess we've made. 

lowing wrote:

2. You do paint a very grim future for us and you have some incredibly valid points. It is just as I read your post I was thinking of all the improvements our existence has brought to the world. I thought of our great strides in civil rights and women's rights. How tolerant our nation has become of others. As a matter of fact I will argue that a lot of our problems have stemmed from too much trust and tolerance of others who have no interest in the future or the well being of our nation.

Your thoughts??   +1 for a great post however.
Improvements?  To some perhaps.  Civil and Womens rights are going to mean a damn if it gets to the point where you have to fight to survive.  Tolerance and Political Correctness are only the magician's illusions that distract from the real problems.  People are more concerned with what Paris Hilton and Brittney Spears do at nightclubs than they are about the changes being made to the constitution that effects their basic and most fundamental freedoms.

How do you change these things?  First off, we need to find a way to stamp out political corruption.  People should not fear their governments, governments should fear their people.  I think we should take China's lead and start executing politicians and high-ranking statesmen who directly, knowingly and deliberately partake in corruptive or illegal operations, deals, or actions.  If death isn't enough to deter them, then nothing is.  A political office is not something to be used for personal gain, the people who put you there to begin with entrusted you to run their system for them and make the lives of our citizens better, not so you could make 47 million dollars, fuck a hooker, molest children, butcher the constitution and lie to get us into wars of profit. 

Death should be the only outcome for these people.
darad0
Member
+40|6629|Centreville, VA

Cougar wrote:

I think we should take China's lead and start executing politicians and high-ranking statesmen who directly, knowingly and deliberately partake in corruptive or illegal operations, deals, or actions.
+1
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6744|Salt Lake City

Cougar wrote:

lowing wrote:

Very good post Cougar and I agree with the majority of it. However, as I read a few thoughts came to mind.

1. If our fore- fathers came back to life today, I think the first thing they would be asking is, "Where the hell are all the slaves." Or, "We freed who??!!
That may be true, but it wouldn't take long for them to see what a mess we've made. 

lowing wrote:

2. You do paint a very grim future for us and you have some incredibly valid points. It is just as I read your post I was thinking of all the improvements our existence has brought to the world. I thought of our great strides in civil rights and women's rights. How tolerant our nation has become of others. As a matter of fact I will argue that a lot of our problems have stemmed from too much trust and tolerance of others who have no interest in the future or the well being of our nation.

Your thoughts??   +1 for a great post however.
Improvements?  To some perhaps.  Civil and Womens rights are going to mean a damn if it gets to the point where you have to fight to survive.  Tolerance and Political Correctness are only the magician's illusions that distract from the real problems.  People are more concerned with what Paris Hilton and Brittney Spears do at nightclubs than they are about the changes being made to the constitution that effects their basic and most fundamental freedoms.

How do you change these things?  First off, we need to find a way to stamp out political corruption.  People should not fear their governments, governments should fear their people.  I think we should take China's lead and start executing politicians and high-ranking statesmen who directly, knowingly and deliberately partake in corruptive or illegal operations, deals, or actions.  If death isn't enough to deter them, then nothing is.  A political office is not something to be used for personal gain, the people who put you there to begin with entrusted you to run their system for them and make the lives of our citizens better, not so you could make 47 million dollars, fuck a hooker, molest children, butcher the constitution and lie to get us into wars of profit. 

Death should be the only outcome for these people.
Maybe a better option would be to classify them as terrorists.  We could seize all of their money and possessions.  We could detain them at Gitmo without access to council or the exact charges against them for as long as seen fit.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6659|USA

Cougar wrote:

lowing wrote:

Very good post Cougar and I agree with the majority of it. However, as I read a few thoughts came to mind.

1. If our fore- fathers came back to life today, I think the first thing they would be asking is, "Where the hell are all the slaves." Or, "We freed who??!!
That may be true, but it wouldn't take long for them to see what a mess we've made. 

lowing wrote:

2. You do paint a very grim future for us and you have some incredibly valid points. It is just as I read your post I was thinking of all the improvements our existence has brought to the world. I thought of our great strides in civil rights and women's rights. How tolerant our nation has become of others. As a matter of fact I will argue that a lot of our problems have stemmed from too much trust and tolerance of others who have no interest in the future or the well being of our nation.

Your thoughts??   +1 for a great post however.
Improvements?  To some perhaps.  Civil and Womens rights are going to mean a damn if it gets to the point where you have to fight to survive.  Tolerance and Political Correctness are only the magician's illusions that distract from the real problems.  People are more concerned with what Paris Hilton and Brittney Spears do at nightclubs than they are about the changes being made to the constitution that effects their basic and most fundamental freedoms.

How do you change these things?  First off, we need to find a way to stamp out political corruption.  People should not fear their governments, governments should fear their people.  I think we should take China's lead and start executing politicians and high-ranking statesmen who directly, knowingly and deliberately partake in corruptive or illegal operations, deals, or actions.  If death isn't enough to deter them, then nothing is.  A political office is not something to be used for personal gain, the people who put you there to begin with entrusted you to run their system for them and make the lives of our citizens better, not so you could make 47 million dollars, fuck a hooker, molest children, butcher the constitution and lie to get us into wars of profit. 

Death should be the only outcome for these people.
I can't help but agree yet again. We Americans are too shallow and complacent with our own little comfortable lives in our own little worlds that the big picture is being missed or dismissed. We have neither the time nor the gumption to be bothered to act on this, sadly enough.
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6773|Dallas

lowing wrote:

Cougar wrote:

lowing wrote:

Very good post Cougar and I agree with the majority of it. However, as I read a few thoughts came to mind.

1. If our fore- fathers came back to life today, I think the first thing they would be asking is, "Where the hell are all the slaves." Or, "We freed who??!!
That may be true, but it wouldn't take long for them to see what a mess we've made. 

lowing wrote:

2. You do paint a very grim future for us and you have some incredibly valid points. It is just as I read your post I was thinking of all the improvements our existence has brought to the world. I thought of our great strides in civil rights and women's rights. How tolerant our nation has become of others. As a matter of fact I will argue that a lot of our problems have stemmed from too much trust and tolerance of others who have no interest in the future or the well being of our nation.

Your thoughts??   +1 for a great post however.
Improvements?  To some perhaps.  Civil and Womens rights are going to mean a damn if it gets to the point where you have to fight to survive.  Tolerance and Political Correctness are only the magician's illusions that distract from the real problems.  People are more concerned with what Paris Hilton and Brittney Spears do at nightclubs than they are about the changes being made to the constitution that effects their basic and most fundamental freedoms.

How do you change these things?  First off, we need to find a way to stamp out political corruption.  People should not fear their governments, governments should fear their people.  I think we should take China's lead and start executing politicians and high-ranking statesmen who directly, knowingly and deliberately partake in corruptive or illegal operations, deals, or actions.  If death isn't enough to deter them, then nothing is.  A political office is not something to be used for personal gain, the people who put you there to begin with entrusted you to run their system for them and make the lives of our citizens better, not so you could make 47 million dollars, fuck a hooker, molest children, butcher the constitution and lie to get us into wars of profit. 

Death should be the only outcome for these people.
I can't help but agree yet again. We Americans are too shallow and complacent with our own little comfortable lives in our own little worlds that the big picture is being missed or dismissed. We have neither the time nor the gumption to be bothered to act on this, sadly enough.
I shall wash your feet in the crisp, cool waters of agreement.
iamangry
Member
+59|6654|The United States of America

Cougar wrote:

Some good points
0. I wish I could get gas for 2.50/gallon, that's cheap!!!

1. You're exactly right.  It's horrible.  But ask yourself this: If the government can't even manage to process 3 million passport applications in 6 months, how the hell are they gonna process 300 million ID cards in 1.5 years???

2. Here you're wrong. I've proven it on this forum several times ad nauseum.  Oil's gonna be around after you and I are both dead.  It will be more expensive, but it will still be plentiful. 

I think you strike on some really good points here (the exception being the oil argument), and it scares the crap out of me how crazy this country is getting.  I turn on the TV each day to simply say, WTF????  Every day it gets more and more OUTRAGEOUS.  I would assert that it all goes back to, like you said, the proliferation of the 2 party system in this nation for so many years; the degrading quality of people around us do to a loss of our moral footing; and most importantly... our complacency.  So, the solution is to obviously vote for the independent/libertarian candidates, some how convince our people to grow the fuck up and stop being retarded, and maybe have a revolution.  The last point may sound a little rough, but hey, a little revolution every now and again is a healthy part of a democracy IMO.
TeamOrange
Don't be that guy
+84|6319
I am glad someone revived this thread. Great post but a little extreme with what will happen in the next 10 years Scenario.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6780|PNW

Cougar wrote:

answer to know one when caught
We have citizens who don't no the difference between certain words...
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6537|Global Command

darad0 wrote:

Cougar wrote:

I think we should take China's lead and start executing politicians and high-ranking statesmen who directly, knowingly and deliberately partake in corruptive or illegal operations, deals, or actions.
+1
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6683|Canberra, AUS
Yeah, probably the most interesting and indepth scenario for the future of America yet posted here.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6730|Sydney, Australia

ATG wrote:

darad0 wrote:

Cougar wrote:

I think we should take China's lead and start executing politicians and high-ranking statesmen who directly, knowingly and deliberately partake in corruptive or illegal operations, deals, or actions.
+1
+1 Indeed. Do you think they would have enough bullets?
Smitty5613
Member
+46|6535|Middle of nowhere, California

darad0 wrote:

SpanktorTheGreat wrote:

On a side note: The Kingdom of Heaven will never fall to corruption or complacency.
Religion is a modern farce; just another method of control.
how does it control you?? you cant do bad stuff? stuff that you probably wouldnt do anyways??

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