BF2S Forums How many more school kids have to die?

a lot of discourse on twitter and the news is turning on the fact that the on-site cop or first respondent(s) or whatever basically disengaged the kid when they saw he was armed and had a (simulated) vest on.

all this talk from the gun nuts about more guns in schools, more cops on campus, etc, being the cure … and even the trained professionals lose their mettle and allow a child to enter an elementary school with a gun. it took almost an hour for border patrol or SWAT or whatever to finally engage him.

well, seems the conservative right need a new idea.

https://twitter.com/netw3rk/status/1529 … oXXKoF2V1g
“lots of awful things occurring bc dudes in 1780 liked owning people and had guns that shot once every two minutes”.

let’s face it, the sacralisation of guns by the right-wing is akin to this mentality; it’s less about being afeared of ‘gub‘mint tyranny’ and more the little-dick sense of empowerment that comes with it. the ‘get the hell off my property’/‘i’m a free man and you can’t tell me what to do’ attitude. ODD for balding accountants in illinois and racist small-store owners in texas. you the man!

p.s. androoz if you think a bunch of ukrainian civilians being given AR-15s or 47su’s or whatever has done a fucking thing to slow or frustrate russia in its aims, you are a moron. that’s because full-scale war is decided primarily by things like artillery, by armour (and, crucially, anti-armour in the ukrainian case) and by air. also: mandatory conscription for all adult-age males. i wonder how many gun nuts and right-wing blowhards were also draft dodgers ...

it's sheer pretence in readings of the 2A to pretend that a well-armed citizenry is going to repel a MODERN FOREIGN invader. if that was the case, the US surely wouldn’t need to spend 3x as much on ‘defence’ as any other nation on earth, would it? a determined foreign invader would arrive with an air force and navy, you fucking idiot. cruise missiles and tactical nuclear warheads. i'm sure a bunch of crystal meth pushing cholos with their trousers around they ass in orange county are gonna get ‘turnt up’ and fight off the PLA.

Last edited by uziq (2022-05-25 19:57:15)

uziq wrote:

a lot of discourse on twitter and the news is turning on the fact that the on-site cop or first respondent(s) or whatever basically disengaged the kid when they saw he was armed and had a (simulated) vest on.

all this talk from the gun nuts about more guns in schools, more cops on campus, etc, being the cure … and even the trained professionals lose their mettle and allow a child to enter an elementary school with a gun. it took almost an hour for border patrol or SWAT or whatever to finally engage him.

well, seems the conservative right need a new idea.

The screencapped (2018) twitter thread previously points this sort of thing out, and more.

Gun conservatives: "Teachers should be trained to be armed guardians of their classrooms and schools!"
Tweet: "By who?"

This has been pointed out for awhile now. Who is qualified to teach room-to-room child hunting, really? Even if in self defense against an armed brat, or to protect other children. A weirdly complicated solution.

The gun people who talk about fortifying schools, how "any gun could have done this" and "you could have stabbed everyone to death" either aren't actually investigating how these things go down or are being purposefully deceitful. I think a mix of both. They don't want to do research/read and they also have an agenda anyway.

Mass shooters at this point know how to spot security lapses. They know how lockdown drills work and don't work. The Parkland shooter basically got around the lockdown by pointing his rifle through windows. We need bullet proof windows too?

Cruz first killed three students in the hallway, then fired through the windows of four closed classroom doors, killing six more students and wounding thirteen others.[26][28] Students were unable to seek shelter at "hard corners"—areas of a classroom that people could safely hide at if a gunman peered through the window of a door—because many of the classrooms in Building 12 lacked one, and furniture otherwise obstructed potential safe spaces.

I also don't blame the cops for this as much as some people will try to deflect onto them. There is no way to stop at least a few people from getting killed once the shooting starts. Look at the Buffalo attack. He killed 6 people outside the store in 20 seconds. The way the guy moved on those people reminds me of the war videos I have seen of ISIS fighters storming trenches and shooting people who weren't prepared.

The rifles civilians have access to are too good at killing to stop. We can't and shouldn't have to reform all of society because some people's identity is strangely tied up in guns and larping as special forces.

uziq wrote:

Half of them are too fat, also really strange choice of camo for texas.

Still don't know why people think 'tactical' leg holsters are the thing, your gun can be in any number of places to reach for depending on your leg position, and they'll flap around like crazy when you're running.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2022-05-26 04:43:42)

The average shooting or shootout is essentially over in seconds or minutes, response times of SWAT teams very rarely matter in terms of mitigating casualties.

40 mins to deal with this is woeful but I'm sure all the shooting would have been done in the first 5 minutes. After that the shooter is usually mooning around failing to find fresh victims and working up to blowing his brains out.

Dilbert_X wrote:

The average shooting or shootout is essentially over in seconds or minutes, response times of SWAT teams very rarely matter in terms of mitigating casualties.

40 mins to deal with this is woeful but I'm sure all the shooting would have been done in the first 5 minutes. After that the shooter is usually mooning around failing to find fresh victims and working up to blowing his brains out.

another problem is that often times nowadays these things are streamed, or posted to social media, etc. 40 minutes is a lot of time for the shooter to do what they want with the biggest stage in american media/public life. taking 50 minutes to wrap up a school shooting situation is woeful. especially for that gross amount of public expenditure. what is it all for, really, just show?

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

The average shooting or shootout is essentially over in seconds or minutes, response times of SWAT teams very rarely matter in terms of mitigating casualties.

40 mins to deal with this is woeful but I'm sure all the shooting would have been done in the first 5 minutes. After that the shooter is usually mooning around failing to find fresh victims and working up to blowing his brains out.

another problem is that often times nowadays these things are streamed, or posted to social media, etc. 40 minutes is a lot of time for the shooter to do what they want with the biggest stage in american media/public life. taking 50 minutes to wrap up a school shooting situation is woeful. especially for that gross amount of public expenditure. what is it all for, really, just show?

Eventually somebody is going to stream themselves shooting some children. And still nothing will be done since there is no amount of death that will convince someone that they are not special and it could happen to them.

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2022-05-26 06:05:30)

Every armed guard is one less teacher, guidance counselor, coach etc.

Cops really shouldn't be taking pictures with their gear and guns like that. They look like how ISIS and cartels line their guys up for photo shoots.

Ask their wives after you drive them to Target

A few kids locked in the room with the shooter survived. One was speaking to the news about what happened. Another girl was on TikTok showing off her bloody clothes. Her bestfriend got killed next to her. A lot of the parents of the kids are millennials. They are not hesitant to talk to the media or post on social media what happened to their kids like the Sandy Hook parents were. I would be unsurprised if one of these parents allows the media to show their kids like Emmett Till's parents did.

2012 is so different from where we are now. People aren't ashamed to show their trauma these days. At least young people aren't. This will be very hard to ignore. I expect something will come out of Congress. Gun control or something like that? No. I can see something to help kids directly regarding mental health.

There Newbie goes again with the Blue Lives Matter. Are you playing dungeons & dragons with a cop now?

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

To that end though, police have a lot working against them. Stress, lack of sleep, sedentary paperwork load. The universal convenience of junk foods. Bicycle cops got the right idea.

what in the name of fuck are you talking about? do we make the same excuses when EMTs or firefighters fail so utterly in their roles? cops know what they sign up for. they're rewarded very handsomely. they have a big hand in the public pot. they expect automatic respect and gratitude from the public for their 'service'. don't they take an 'oath' in the states?

'wah we have lots of paperwork thesedays and we are tempted by unhealthy diets'.

'to be fair to the first respondents of 9/11, there was a krispy kreme on that block, which no doubt retarded their efforts'.

all the evidence in this case is pointing to an utter, catastrophic failure of their response.

news has emerged that the local SWAT team even had (very expensive) training, on multiple occasions, for mass shooting scenarios. spending all of their municipal funds on simulated hard-man scenarios, no doubt. these are the professionals trained to deal with this stuff. what is your alternative, if we can't hold the police response accountable, in the main? you sure as hell can't accuse the schoolteachers or schoolchildren of bungling their response. these communities put their trust and security, at great public tax-money cost, in their police forces. who totally failed. seems pretty simple to me.

america really needs to have a conversation about the rampant over-funding of police departments whose main justification is a load of hot air. the sooner you dispel this myth that more funding for police or more guns will fix mass shootings, the sooner you can begin mooting real meaningful solutions and not this quasi-fascistic, action-movie wish-fulfllment guff. you defending the police in their delusions is not helpful in this scenario. the sooner america wakes up from its creepy and totemic relationship to gun ownership, the better.

'you know, i think that if owning and shooting guns was my hobby, and that hobby was the leading cause of death in children in the entire country ... that i would simply find another hobby'.

Last edited by uziq (2022-05-26 19:57:58)