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Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|5701|SE London

DesertFox423 wrote:

Purely of interest, what is an OAP?
OAP = Old Age Pensioner
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|5948
Ok, firstly to all the people who still don't get why guns get banned all over the world even though cars kill more people.

CARS ARE USED USEFULLY BY THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION AND USED FOR A LARGE AMOUNT OF TIME. GUNS ARE USED USEFULLY FOR A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF TIME AND YET STILL KILL LOTS OF PEOPLE.

The benefits to cars vastly outweighs their problems.

Most of the western world seems to have decided that the benefits of banning guns (reductions in murder, attempted murder and overall crime rates) outweighs the benefits (hunting, illusion of self-protection, ability to collect them)

As for the UK banning kitchen knifes, we aren't. There was some investigation into whether making kitchen knives without the pointed end would reduce deaths, but even that is very unlikely to happen.


Next, arguments along the lines of `if we ban guns then the criminals will get hold of them anyway, your just making life easier for the criminals`.

a) All the evidence from all countries that have banned guns shows that this isn't true, a populace without guns results in criminals without guns, after all, the criminals get the guns by stealing them of people. In the UK the majority of gun crime is committed with air-guns.

b) Getting your hands on an illegal weapon is both hugely more expensive to buy in the UK and far more difficult to find one yourself or to find someone to sell one. I have no idea where to even start looking for a gun in the UK. In the US you just wait for some family to go out and burgle their house, chances are you'll get lucky after a few tries. You could go to a state where you can carry a gun and just mug someone.
sgt.sonner
the electric eel has got me by the brain banana
+146|5652|Denmizzark!!

T0rr3nt wrote:

a) you are from england.
b) stfu.
c) it IS in our constutition, therefore you can not change it(unless amended), get over it.
d) im not a redneck, nor am i all for guns. im just a bit more educated i suppose, than a snobby englishmen who thinks he knows everything.
A) You are fucking stupid if you think the two things arent related
B)You are fucking stupid if you think the two things arent related
C)You are fucking stupid if you think the two things arent  related
D)You are fucking stupid if you think the two things arent related

And stfu about the constitution, its getting pretty old..
_-_911_-_180891
Member
+540|5622|Shanghai, ethnicity=German

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Oh, for god sakes. Use search next time. This issue is big enough that you are bound to find something roughly related to gun control, and people on both sides of and on the fence have certainly posted alot in them.
:p
[email protected]
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|5668|Southeastern USA

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

a) All the evidence from all countries that have banned guns shows that this isn't true, a populace without guns results in criminals without guns, after all, the criminals get the guns by stealing them of people. In the UK the majority of gun crime is committed with air-guns.
not a good argument in somalia, just one of several dozen such places where a ban on guns curiously results in the highest gun death rates
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|5821|New York

sgt.sonner wrote:

T0rr3nt wrote:

a) you are from england.
b) stfu.
c) it IS in our constutition, therefore you can not change it(unless amended), get over it.
d) im not a redneck, nor am i all for guns. im just a bit more educated i suppose, than a snobby englishmen who thinks he knows everything.
A) You are fucking stupid if you think the two things arent related
B)You are fucking stupid if you think the two things arent related
C)You are fucking stupid if you think the two things arent  related
D)You are fucking stupid if you think the two things arent related

And stfu about the constitution, its getting pretty old..
Did that take you all day to come up with? Holy shit, that was the stupidest thing ive ever read.
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|5821|New York

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

Ok, firstly to all the people who still don't get why guns get banned all over the world even though cars kill more people.

CARS ARE USED USEFULLY BY THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION AND USED FOR A LARGE AMOUNT OF TIME. GUNS ARE USED USEFULLY FOR A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF TIME AND YET STILL KILL LOTS OF PEOPLE.

The benefits to cars vastly outweighs their problems.

Most of the western world seems to have decided that the benefits of banning guns (reductions in murder, attempted murder and overall crime rates) outweighs the benefits (hunting, illusion of self-protection, ability to collect them)

As for the UK banning kitchen knifes, we aren't. There was some investigation into whether making kitchen knives without the pointed end would reduce deaths, but even that is very unlikely to happen.


Next, arguments along the lines of `if we ban guns then the criminals will get hold of them anyway, your just making life easier for the criminals`.

a) All the evidence from all countries that have banned guns shows that this isn't true, a populace without guns results in criminals without guns, after all, the criminals get the guns by stealing them of people. In the UK the majority of gun crime is committed with air-guns.

b) Getting your hands on an illegal weapon is both hugely more expensive to buy in the UK and far more difficult to find one yourself or to find someone to sell one. I have no idea where to even start looking for a gun in the UK. In the US you just wait for some family to go out and burgle their house, chances are you'll get lucky after a few tries. You could go to a state where you can carry a gun and just mug someone.
Holy shit did you say illusion of self defense? I surely hope not. I wont post it again, But ive been there done that and lived. So please lets Not darg that dead cat through the mud again.
Vintageologist
Tankbuster
+31|5877|Vienna, Austria

Reciprocity wrote:

what the fuck do gun laws have to do with nut jobs going nuts in schools?  If crazy people wanna do crazy shit, they're gunna do it.
YES, YES!!!


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DONT OVERREAD THIS POST LOOK AT THE QUOTE

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When will people fuckin realise it's not the guns that kill, neither the computer games. It's the goddamn mad people. For every 1 mad killer there's almost a million other people who just want to have their guns for self defense or for sport. It's not the guns that are the problem. It' those people's local environment and surroundings that makes them mad. And for every time when a mad man killed people with a gun, there's also a time where a gun saved a life. It's just not mentioned in the news cause people like to hear about mad people who kill innocents (maybe because he played a computer game) and american soldiers killed in action. Sad but that's what sells.

Last edited by Vintageologist (2006-10-04 07:33:48)

.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|5948

[email protected] wrote:

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

a) All the evidence from all countries that have banned guns shows that this isn't true, a populace without guns results in criminals without guns, after all, the criminals get the guns by stealing them of people. In the UK the majority of gun crime is committed with air-guns.
not a good argument in somalia, just one of several dozen such places where a ban on guns curiously results in the highest gun death rates
Ok, we'll change that to Western countries. Still, lets remember the fact that the gun laws in Somalia were brought in due to the massive gun crime problem that was already there. Now the Law enforcement agencies are pitifully underequipt to deal with the problem and the law hasn't been in place anywhere near long enough for it to have the desired effects.
DocZ
Member
+13|5807|Belgium
They will never change their second amendment...  Too right they shouldn't...  Guns have never killed people.  Put a loaded gun on a table, the next day the gun will still be there, guns don't go galabanting around killing people...  PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE...  They should simply raise weapon safety awareness..  Like putting guns out of the reach of children, keep guns and ammo locked up at seperate locations, NEVER store a loaded weapon...

And banning weapons completely will not help either, because statistically there are more gun-related murders in Great Britain then in any other European country....  Banning weapons will only result in a boom for illegal weapon distribution....
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|5701|SE London

DocZ wrote:

And banning weapons completely will not help either, because statistically there are more gun-related murders in Great Britain then in any other European country....  Banning weapons will only result in a boom for illegal weapon distribution....
Source for that? I'm not sure about gun crime, but the homicide rate in the UK is lower than in France, Germany, Spain etc. (figures from 2000 - might be outdated).
JohnnyBlanco
Member
+44|5690|England

[email protected] wrote:

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

a) All the evidence from all countries that have banned guns shows that this isn't true, a populace without guns results in criminals without guns, after all, the criminals get the guns by stealing them of people. In the UK the majority of gun crime is committed with air-guns.
not a good argument in somalia, just one of several dozen such places where a ban on guns curiously results in the highest gun death rates
Lol, what???? Somalia has not had a stable government for the last 15 years and as such has been in almost perpetual civil war, i think thats the important point to remember on that one. They have no credible police force ffs. Stop posting bullshit to back up your stupid argument!. But hey you've got another 35 to name eh?
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|5821|New York

DocZ wrote:

They will never change their second amendment...  Too right they shouldn't...  Guns have never killed people.  Put a loaded gun on a table, the next day the gun will still be there, guns don't go galabanting around killing people...  PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE...  They should simply raise weapon safety awareness..  Like putting guns out of the reach of children, keep guns and ammo locked up at seperate locations, NEVER store a loaded weapon...

And banning weapons completely will not help either, because statistically there are more gun-related murders in Great Britain then in any other European country....  Banning weapons will only result in a boom for illegal weapon distribution....
Smartest thing ive read so far. +1
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|5794|Canberra, AUS

Vintageologist wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

what the fuck do gun laws have to do with nut jobs going nuts in schools?  If crazy people wanna do crazy shit, they're gunna do it.
YES, YES!!!


######################################################################

DONT OVERREAD THIS POST LOOK AT THE QUOTE

######################################################################

When will people fuckin realise it's not the guns that kill, neither the computer games. It's the goddamn mad people. For every 1 mad killer there's almost a million other people who just want to have their guns for self defense or for sport. It's not the guns that are the problem. It' those people's local environment and surroundings that makes them mad. And for every time when a mad man killed people with a gun, there's also a time where a gun saved a life. It's just not mentioned in the news cause people like to hear about mad people who kill innocents (maybe because he played a computer game) and american soldiers killed in action. Sad but that's what sells.
They have to point. As much as I am supportive of gun control laws, I do not think this latest shooting is about guns. It's more about religion - religion gone insane. Make a community that religious and something is bound to go wrong (I point to a quote from a resident of the area: "It was God's will that these girls should die. If he didn't kill them this way, there would be some way because this was their time" (paraphrased)) - I mean, seriously.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|5701|SE London

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

DocZ wrote:

They will never change their second amendment...  Too right they shouldn't...  Guns have never killed people.  Put a loaded gun on a table, the next day the gun will still be there, guns don't go galabanting around killing people...  PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE...  They should simply raise weapon safety awareness..  Like putting guns out of the reach of children, keep guns and ammo locked up at seperate locations, NEVER store a loaded weapon...

And banning weapons completely will not help either, because statistically there are more gun-related murders in Great Britain then in any other European country....  Banning weapons will only result in a boom for illegal weapon distribution....
Smartest thing ive read so far. +1
Because you like it? Doesn't make the statistics, which I have still to see any evidence of, true.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+767|5804|United States of America
No. Because he is saying a gun itself is not dangerous. It's people that are. You can't ban stupid people for some reason.
psychotoxic187
Member
+11|5828

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

a) All the evidence from all countries that have banned guns shows that this isn't true, a populace without guns results in criminals without guns, after all, the criminals get the guns by stealing them of people. In the UK the majority of gun crime is committed with air-guns.
not a good argument in somalia, just one of several dozen such places where a ban on guns curiously results in the highest gun death rates
Ok, we'll change that to Western countries. Still, lets remember the fact that the gun laws in Somalia were brought in due to the massive gun crime problem that was already there. Now the Law enforcement agencies are pitifully underequipt to deal with the problem and the law hasn't been in place anywhere near long enough for it to have the desired effects.
Doesn't matter. Ban guns, and criminals will still have them, just like drugs. They are illegal, and they still find tons of ways to get their hands on them. Ban guns, then what? People will use anything they can, and then what? Ban anything that can hurt you? When do you stop?
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|5701|SE London

DesertFox423 wrote:

No. Because he is saying a gun itself is not dangerous. It's people that are. You can't ban stupid people for some reason.
Damn, I just about to suggest that. It's sort out the population problems as well.

It was the second part I was refering to.

DocZ wrote:

And banning weapons completely will not help either, because statistically there are more gun-related murders in Great Britain then in any other European country....  Banning weapons will only result in a boom for illegal weapon distribution....
Which I haven't seen any evidence of.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|5701|SE London

psychotoxic187 wrote:

Doesn't matter. Ban guns, and criminals will still have them, just like drugs. They are illegal, and they still find tons of ways to get their hands on them. Ban guns, then what? People will use anything they can, and then what? Ban anything that can hurt you? When do you stop?
No, just ban stuff designed specifically to hurt people. A kitchen knife could easily hurt someone, but that's not what it's primary purpose is. Guns are designed to kill people, or in rarer cases, animals.

It has been well documented that when guns are banned fewer criminals have them. I don't know about you, but I prefer living in a society where fewer criminals have guns.
Fallschirmjager10
Member
+36|5579

krazed wrote:

TeK||drake666 wrote:

i only can speak for Austria!
here we have EXTREM strict laws for guns! You must make a psychological test, pay a lot money for the license, and if there happens just one bad case with the gun its gone forever!
next thing is that the gun itself must be locked somewhere and the ammo locked elsewhere!
we had such school shootings but i can only remember 1 or 2! (sure we are much smaller but our mentality is a way different)
i think it depend a lot on the parents...

what i want to say is that guns became normal in the US damn you can buy it in a sport-store... its to easy to get one...

( i hope i didn't kill the english language ^^)
hmm well you also need to pay a fee for the lisence, get a background check done, they have to be locked up and the ammo stored elsewhere, also locked up. and if you screw up with it you lose it forever

hey holy shit look at that the laws are almost the same! ZOMG SHOCKING!!!!!!!111111111111

most weapons used in most crimes are illegaly obtained and usualy illegal to own in the first place, but shh dont tell the anti gun lobbyists that
i can tell you know in west virginia yuo do NOT need a license, its been researched and its said that gangs from new york and other places travel to west virginia and other states to purchase weapons, last week i went in to a flea market, put down 130$ and bought a 9mm, no questions asked, no licenses, no nothing, hell, i could have bought an ak-47 to, to much money though
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,937|5891|USA

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

Ok, firstly to all the people who still don't get why guns get banned all over the world even though cars kill more people.

CARS ARE USED USEFULLY BY THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION AND USED FOR A LARGE AMOUNT OF TIME. GUNS ARE USED USEFULLY FOR A VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF TIME AND YET STILL KILL LOTS OF PEOPLE.
Cigarettes are absolutely useless, but why is it so hard to get them banned?
ts-pulsar
Member
+54|5622
Shit, I'm not reading all that, and I've posted in enough of these "guns are evil ban them" threads to know that nothing said makes a bit of difference, so I'm leaving it at this.

I love shooting guns, guns are not only my hobby, they are my livelyhood (I'm a gunsmith).  And even if they weren't my livelyhood I'd be willing to fight to death to keep them.  Why do you want to to remove something that so many people are actually willing to fight to the death to keep?
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|5948
Nukes don't kill people, crazy governments kill people. Lets let everyone over the world have nukes, we already know that any nation can get nukes anyway if they really want them. Go on , sit a nuke on a table and see if it kills anyone. No? Then clearly nukes aren't the problem. That vat of chemical weapons? no that isn't killing anyone either. Making nukes, Biological weapons and chemical weapons provides loads of people jobs too. Hell you could even collect them if you wanted, it'd sure make a great conversation piece on your coffee table. Nukes are for a country's self defense, without nukes how could you defend yourself from a country with nukes? you can't can you? They'll just nuke you while you're trying to mobilize your tank battalions.

If some contry comes for you with some mechanized infantry, just start fueling up your nuclear missiles and they'll get the message and back down. Nukes save lives! If fact how many people are killed each year from nukes? None!

But wait a sec, my govenment has nukes! I demand the right to own my own nukes in case I decide one day that I don't like my government anymore and need to overthrow it. Lets face it, if loads of the populace have nukes the govenment won't stand a chance.

Last edited by .:XDR:.PureFodder (2006-10-05 03:36:19)

[email protected]
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|5668|Southeastern USA
I put this in the wrong thread earlier, but here it is:

it's just dumb to think that the police forces are always going to be hovering around waiting to protect you, someone breaks into my house, the only 911 call I'm going to make will go something like

"911 please state your emergency"

                                     "..................................................................there's a dead crackhead in my kitchen"[/
DocZ
Member
+13|5807|Belgium

Bertster7 wrote:

psychotoxic187 wrote:

Doesn't matter. Ban guns, and criminals will still have them, just like drugs. They are illegal, and they still find tons of ways to get their hands on them. Ban guns, then what? People will use anything they can, and then what? Ban anything that can hurt you? When do you stop?
No, just ban stuff designed specifically to hurt people. A kitchen knife could easily hurt someone, but that's not what it's primary purpose is. Guns are designed to kill people, or in rarer cases, animals.

It has been well documented that when guns are banned fewer criminals have them. I don't know about you, but I prefer living in a society where fewer criminals have guns.
Documented by whom? The international naieve blind pacifists united?

People have a knack for seeing only that which they want to see...
Banning weapons completely makes it only easier for criminals to illegally procure guns, because it is the only market...
As to my statement about gun crime in the UK...  I picked it up somewhere at the gun range after the government f*cked up the gun laws here in Belgium...  Now we have to renew our gun permits every five years for about 250 USD PER  GUN YOU OWN...  So logically, illegal weapons trade has boomed here... 
But this is besides the point...

Stricter gun laws DO NOT reduce gun-related violence...  Anyone who thinks that is extremely naieve and blind to the truth.  Because if you ban weapons and things that hurt people, where will it end?  Next thing you know they can ban cars, because more people die in car accidents then get shot...  Then kitchen knives, then hammers, next will be nails,....that's just stupid...

As I said before: guns don't kill people by themselves...  Only some people should take gun safety to heart...  And neither should the US 2nd amendment be abolished or made more strict...

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