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Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|5701|SE London

It's obvious that banning guns would almost completely put an end to these types of shootings and most gun crime. It is what has happened in all other countries that ban guns. If the majority of Americans want to have guns though, then don't ban them - that's what democracy is all about. I don't care, I don't live there. In the UK guns are banned and I don't have to worry about getting shot.

It is obvious that it would be better for society, but many people like their guns and want to keep them. It is just a case of balancing that desire to own guns against the cost in human life, which in the current social climate probably won't happen - mostly because the US is not forward thinking enough.
tiptopT
Member
+72|5701|Scotland's Capital

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

The UK has huge gang problems, racism and immigration issues, crazy media etc.
...and bends over backwards to kiss Muslim ass. No offense to the religion, but the UK does.
No, the UK has more than it's share of right-wing anti-Mislim crazys, but we do have roughly 6 times the percentage of Muslims in the UK so we get to see much more of the good side of the religion.
Both right here, we do have a growing problem with anti-muslim/asian sentiment (ive noticed as much here in Edinburgh) but it is the minority that spoil it for everyone else.  Also i agree with unnamednewbie13 with the UK going far too PC, so PC its fucked up.  Its a shame because traditions and liberties are being lost/stopped! ARG!
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|5911

BADHEAD wrote:

"Militia" itself referred to a concept of a universally armed people, not to any specifically organized unit. When the framers referred to the equivalent of our National Guard, they uniformly used the term "select militia" and distinguished this from "militia".

Your betting that 50 million people are injured by gun accidents a year??
Rofl.

The year 2000 KIDS and cars and guns
Total
All Automobile 43,000
All Firearms    600

Ages 0-24
All Automobile 12900
All Firearms    230


Cars are far more dangeous to kids than guns.
Cars are safe guns are safe its once you put people  in the picture  well then you have chaos.
I presume that the automobile and firearms figures are both in the same currency, i.e. thousands of deaths/injuries and all in the US?  Do you have a source for these figures?

Anyway, if you're saying that 600,000 people are injured (or killed, without the source, it's unclear) by guns each year in the US, isn't it time something was done?  It seems the right to bear arms wasn't helping them, was it?

If that many people were injured (or killed) by McDonalds, there'd be an outcry.  If 600,000 people were injured by staplers, they'd be made safer.  If 600,000 people were injured by [insert anything here] it would be better regulated.  But guns?  Obviously 600,000 people being injured by firearms, that's okay.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,937|5891|USA

tiptopT wrote:

T0rr3nt wrote:

a) you are from england.
b) stfu.
c) it IS in our constutition, therefore you can not change it(unless amended), get over it.
d) im not a redneck, nor am i all for guns. im just a bit more educated i suppose, than a snobby englishmen who thinks he knows everything.
Once again say anything even slightly negative against the US and someone gets on their high horse...
Yeah, well, say anything positive about the US and someone else gets up on their high horse. As is the norm, both sides are guilty.
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|5948

BADHEAD wrote:

"Militia" itself referred to a concept of a universally armed people, not to any specifically organized unit. When the framers referred to the equivalent of our National Guard, they uniformly used the term "select militia" and distinguished this from "militia".

Your betting that 50 million people are injured by gun accidents a year??
Rofl.

The year 2000 KIDS and cars and guns
Total
All Automobile 43,000
All Firearms    600

Ages 0-24
All Automobile 12900
All Firearms    230


Cars are far more dangeous to kids than guns.
Cars are safe guns are safe its once you put people  in the picture  well then you have chaos.
Ok, you missed the point.

Cars are used by most people and for hours a day. Most guns are not used on a regular basis at all. The point being that the benefits from using cars greatly out weight their problems.

The same is not true for guns.

To put it another way, I remember reading that more people in the UK are hospitalized due to newspaper/magazine caused injuries than knife related ones. The reason isn't that newspapers are incredibly dangerous, but that they are used for a much larger amount time.

This is why the `cars kill more people` argument is wrong.
tiptopT
Member
+72|5701|Scotland's Capital

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

tiptopT wrote:

T0rr3nt wrote:

a) you are from england.
b) stfu.
c) it IS in our constutition, therefore you can not change it(unless amended), get over it.
d) im not a redneck, nor am i all for guns. im just a bit more educated i suppose, than a snobby englishmen who thinks he knows everything.
Once again say anything even slightly negative against the US and someone gets on their high horse...
Yeah, well, say anything positive about the US and someone else gets up on their high horse. As is the norm, both sides are guilty.
Well not really matey, I have issues both positive and negative with America but constructive criticism (sometimes percieved as negative criticism) helps promote discussion and rather than going off on one the best thing to do is to inform the person of their mistake.  Or even agree with them.  I think i've said this before but thats one main difference between the US and UK, we more freely criticise our government and accept others criticisim of it, while Americans seem to take it personally.  Not a dig, just an observation - get that across
tiptopT
Member
+72|5701|Scotland's Capital

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

BADHEAD wrote:

"Militia" itself referred to a concept of a universally armed people, not to any specifically organized unit. When the framers referred to the equivalent of our National Guard, they uniformly used the term "select militia" and distinguished this from "militia".

Your betting that 50 million people are injured by gun accidents a year??
Rofl.

The year 2000 KIDS and cars and guns
Total
All Automobile 43,000
All Firearms    600

Ages 0-24
All Automobile 12900
All Firearms    230


Cars are far more dangeous to kids than guns.
Cars are safe guns are safe its once you put people  in the picture  well then you have chaos.
Ok, you missed the point.

Cars are used by most people and for hours a day. Most guns are not used on a regular basis at all. The point being that the benefits from using cars greatly out weight their problems.

The same is not true for guns.

To put it another way, I remember reading that more people in the UK are hospitalized due to newspaper/magazine caused injuries than knife related ones. The reason isn't that newspapers are incredibly dangerous, but that they are used for a much larger amount time.

This is why the `cars kill more people` argument is wrong.
More intentional kills with guns rather than with vehicles hence more dangerous?
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|5701|SE London

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

The UK has huge gang problems, racism and immigration issues, crazy media etc.
...and bends over backwards to kiss Muslim ass. No offense to the religion, but the UK does.
Not just muslims. It's called equality and it's a good thing.

On a seperate note, the British bill of rights used to include the right to bear arms (since 1181) - it got taken out because it was considered outdated. Laws like this can be repealed by parliment because of the parlimentary supremacy doctorine within British law.

T0rr3nt wrote:

a) you are from england.
b) stfu.
c) it IS in our constutition, therefore you can not change it(unless amended), get over it.
d) im not a redneck, nor am i all for guns. im just a bit more educated i suppose, than a snobby englishmen who thinks he knows everything.
A) I'm from England too. It's good, gives us an insight into how society functions without guns.
B) How very mature, lol.
C) We don't have a constutition in England, but if we did it could be withdrawn or altered by parliment.
D) Glad to hear you're noot a gun toting redneck. If you're trying to convince everyone of your education, might help to spell things right and try to actually use grammar.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,937|5891|USA

Bertster7 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

The UK has huge gang problems, racism and immigration issues, crazy media etc.
...and bends over backwards to kiss Muslim ass. No offense to the religion, but the UK does.
Not just muslims. It's called equality and it's a good thing.

On a seperate note, the British bill of rights used to include the right to bear arms (since 1181) - it got taken out because it was considered outdated. Laws like this can be repealed by parliment because of the parlimentary supremacy doctorine within British law.

T0rr3nt wrote:

a) you are from england.
b) stfu.
c) it IS in our constutition, therefore you can not change it(unless amended), get over it.
d) im not a redneck, nor am i all for guns. im just a bit more educated i suppose, than a snobby englishmen who thinks he knows everything.
A) I'm from England too. It's good, gives us an insight into how society functions without guns.
B) How very mature, lol.
C) We don't have a constutition in England, but if we did it could be withdrawn or altered by parliment.
D) Glad to hear you're noot a gun toting redneck. If you're trying to convince everyone of your education, might help to spell things right and try to actually use grammar.
I'm all for equality. What I don't like is inversion of preference. And at the same time, it might help a bit if you followed your own advice on a few things in that reply.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-10-03 09:14:28)

aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|5911

tiptopT wrote:

T0rr3nt wrote:

a) you are from england.
b) stfu.
c) it IS in our constutition, therefore you can not change it(unless amended), get over it.
d) im not a redneck, nor am i all for guns. im just a bit more educated i suppose, than a snobby englishmen who thinks he knows everything.
Once again say anything even slightly negative against the US and someone gets on their high horse...
Just like fucking Islam.  Say anything bad about the religion and you get a fatwah on your head and people parading through the streets with placards calling for your head on the stick.
Jenkinsbball
Banned
+149|5667|USA bitches!

Bertster7 wrote:

It's obvious that banning guns would almost completely put an end to these types of shootings and most gun crime. It is what has happened in all other countries that ban guns. If the majority of Americans want to have guns though, then don't ban them - that's what democracy is all about. I don't care, I don't live there. In the UK guns are banned and I don't have to worry about getting shot.

It is obvious that it would be better for society, but many people like their guns and want to keep them. It is just a case of balancing that desire to own guns against the cost in human life, which in the current social climate probably won't happen - mostly because the US is not forward thinking enough.
You shouldn't be afraid of not being shot just because something is banned. That wouldn't stop a murderer from running up to you and shooting you in the face. I'm not saying it would or wouldn't ever happen, but you have to consider the chances of it happening. Just because an item is banned, doesn't mean everyone will listen (Prohibition ).
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,937|5891|USA

aardfrith wrote:

tiptopT wrote:

T0rr3nt wrote:

a) you are from england.
b) stfu.
c) it IS in our constutition, therefore you can not change it(unless amended), get over it.
d) im not a redneck, nor am i all for guns. im just a bit more educated i suppose, than a snobby englishmen who thinks he knows everything.
Once again say anything even slightly negative against the US and someone gets on their high horse...
Just like fucking Islam.  Say anything bad about the religion and you get a fatwah on your head and people parading through the streets with placards calling for your head on the stick.
Lucky for them Oliver Cromwell isn't alive, well, and in power. What a fiasco that would be...*shudders*
tiptopT
Member
+72|5701|Scotland's Capital

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:


...and bends over backwards to kiss Muslim ass. No offense to the religion, but the UK does.
Not just muslims. It's called equality and it's a good thing.

On a seperate note, the British bill of rights used to include the right to bear arms (since 1181) - it got taken out because it was considered outdated. Laws like this can be repealed by parliment because of the parlimentary supremacy doctorine within British law.

T0rr3nt wrote:

a) you are from england.
b) stfu.
c) it IS in our constutition, therefore you can not change it(unless amended), get over it.
d) im not a redneck, nor am i all for guns. im just a bit more educated i suppose, than a snobby englishmen who thinks he knows everything.
A) I'm from England too. It's good, gives us an insight into how society functions without guns.
B) How very mature, lol.
C) We don't have a constutition in England, but if we did it could be withdrawn or altered by parliment.
D) Glad to hear you're noot a gun toting redneck. If you're trying to convince everyone of your education, might help to spell things right and try to actually use grammar.
I'm all for equality. What I don't like is inversion of preference. And at the same time, it might help a bit if you followed your own advice on a few things in that reply.
Maybe he has fat fingers
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,937|5891|USA

tiptopT wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

...and bends over backwards to kiss Muslim ass. No offense to the religion, but the UK does.
Not just muslims. It's called equality and it's a good thing.

On a seperate note, the British bill of rights used to include the right to bear arms (since 1181) - it got taken out because it was considered outdated. Laws like this can be repealed by parliment because of the parlimentary supremacy doctorine within British law.

A) I'm from England too. It's good, gives us an insight into how society functions without guns.
B) How very mature, lol.
C) We don't have a constutition in England, but if we did it could be withdrawn or altered by parliment.
D) Glad to hear you're noot a gun toting redneck. If you're trying to convince everyone of your education, might help to spell things right and try to actually use grammar.
I'm all for equality. What I don't like is inversion of preference. And at the same time, it might help a bit if you followed your own advice on a few things in that reply.
Maybe he has fat fingers
https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/unnamednewbie13/fatfingers.jpg
golgoj4
Member
+51|5893|North Hollywood
Guns dont kill people. People Kill People. Simple as that. You are responsible for your own actions. Im pretty tired of people who want to strip me of my rights because some other asshole is mentally unstable. If the criminals want something, they will get it. I dont understand why we want to punish the people who would be legally following the law. Maybe personal responsiblity, or the lack thereof, is the real problem. Im sure we could all flip out when times get hard, but its the ones with intestinal fortitude that dont go around wasting kids. Stop blaming the fucking guns for the retards in society. And another thing. Stop pretending that you can legislate what criminals do. Just in case nobody noticed criminals adapt...so why limit the tools of people to protect themselves.
Jinto-sk
Laid Back Yorkshireman
+183|5710|Scarborough Yorkshire England

Jenkinsbball wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

It's obvious that banning guns would almost completely put an end to these types of shootings and most gun crime. It is what has happened in all other countries that ban guns. If the majority of Americans want to have guns though, then don't ban them - that's what democracy is all about. I don't care, I don't live there. In the UK guns are banned and I don't have to worry about getting shot.

It is obvious that it would be better for society, but many people like their guns and want to keep them. It is just a case of balancing that desire to own guns against the cost in human life, which in the current social climate probably won't happen - mostly because the US is not forward thinking enough.
You shouldn't be afraid of not being shot just because something is banned. That wouldn't stop a murderer from running up to you and shooting you in the face. I'm not saying it would or wouldn't ever happen, but you have to consider the chances of it happening. Just because an item is banned, doesn't mean everyone will listen (Prohibition ).
I think he means it is LESS likely to happen
BADHEAD
Member
+6|5617|Oblivion
The numbers dont lie.
MORE people are hurt by cars than guns, BY accident.
I dont care if you use them for a million hours.

Murder is murder.
Killing is killing.

If i use a brick a gun or a large trout to beat you to death.


If the need to proctect myself arises I will have my human right to defend myself from bodily injury.
DO you? Call a bobbie and pray they make it in time before your tied up, beatin and STABBED.
Ill drop you a line or send flowers to your funeral.
But im defending myself.


Here s a good point. I dont play with fire but i own a fire extinguisher.
My guns have never hurt anyone and I hope they never do.



I had to add this quote......

"Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs, and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would."
        --- John Adams, Boston Gazette, Sept. 5, 1763,reprinted in 3 The Works of John Adams 438 (Charles F. Adams ed., 1851).

Last edited by BADHEAD (2006-10-03 09:57:45)

[email protected]
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|5668|Southeastern USA
the fact remains that, as tragic as this is, it is still a rarity, and even rarer still for any gun crime, school or otherwise, to be committed with a LEGALLY obtained firearm, cars "kill" alot more people, your time would be better suited trying to ban them
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,937|5891|USA

Speaking of which, isn't murder banned in pretty much any country with a decent government?
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|5701|SE London

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:


...and bends over backwards to kiss Muslim ass. No offense to the religion, but the UK does.
Not just muslims. It's called equality and it's a good thing.

On a seperate note, the British bill of rights used to include the right to bear arms (since 1181) - it got taken out because it was considered outdated. Laws like this can be repealed by parliment because of the parlimentary supremacy doctorine within British law.

T0rr3nt wrote:

a) you are from england.
b) stfu.
c) it IS in our constutition, therefore you can not change it(unless amended), get over it.
d) im not a redneck, nor am i all for guns. im just a bit more educated i suppose, than a snobby englishmen who thinks he knows everything.
A) I'm from England too. It's good, gives us an insight into how society functions without guns.
B) How very mature, lol.
C) We don't have a constutition in England, but if we did it could be withdrawn or altered by parliment.
D) Glad to hear you're noot a gun toting redneck. If you're trying to convince everyone of your education, might help to spell things right and try to actually use grammar.
I'm all for equality. What I don't like is inversion of preference. And at the same time, it might help a bit if you followed your own advice on a few things in that reply.
Terribly sorry - it seems I missed the A out of parliament. The mis-spelling of constitution is deliberate.

When I said earlier I didn't have to worry about getting shot was in reference to the amount of gun crime that occurs in the UK, which is very little.

Banning firearms DOES reduce the amount of gun crime, it has been shown in every country that has ever done it. It's that simple. If Americans don't want to ban guns, fine, but more people will die as a result. The levels of control of weapons in the UK have gone too far, OAPs have been arrested for having penknives, which is just silly. There is a sensible middle ground though.
LoneWolfMDS
Member
+3|5582|north carolina
i love guns.
JohnnyBlanco
Member
+44|5690|England
Backgroud checks are irrelevant. You're going to get a gangbanger going into a store to buy his gun are you! They steal them off all the people who say it's their right to bear arms.
Riddick51PB
Member
+21|5627|Lincoln.ne.us
unfortunately, i bring more bad news.

now, you guys that are in school must be thinking ahead of the attacker(s).

now, you have to talk to your friends and make sure they are on the same playing field as what i am about to tell you.

when an attacker enters your school room, you must all immediately explode out of your desks and swarm the attacker.

you need to HOLLER ACROSS THE ROOM TERRORIST!!!!!!!!!!.

when you hear that immediately search the near vincinity with your eyes, locate the Terrorist and you boys need to gang tackle the guy and take away his weapon.

there is strength in numbers.  you have to attack the Terrorist as a group.

you need to shake off your fear now.  because there won't be any place for it when you take down the Terrorist slash school attacker.

set your fear aside now.  with luck, no one will get shot and you will be living legends.

without luck, you will go down in history more respected than kurt cobain, who couldn't save anyone.

your names will be remembered by the rest of us and you will receive public awards for your courage.

do it for your classmates.

do it for your friends.

just do it.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+767|5804|United States of America

Bertster7 wrote:

Banning firearms DOES reduce the amount of gun crime, it has been shown in every country that has ever done it. It's that simple. If Americans don't want to ban guns, fine, but more people will die as a result. The levels of control of weapons in the UK have gone too far, OAPs have been arrested for having penknives, which is just silly. There is a sensible middle ground though.
Sure it may, but think of the large percent that lose their firearm on which they spent at least a couple hundred dollars just to satiate the fears of people who are inexperienced and view them as dangerous. I don't know what you consider gun crime though. You could, in theory, call the case where a burglar is shot by a homeowner and sues a gun crime, but that's just BS.
Purely of interest, what is an OAP?
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|5821|New York

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

Ok, I'll alow you to splatter bits of deer around the woods with a .50 cal bolt action rifle, any arguements about banning automatic and semi-automatic weaponry?

Oh and the US has successfully banned fully automatic weapons, so why not extend it's firearms restrictions?

<[onex wrote:

>Headstone]
Dude get real. It has nothing to do with guns or the laws. It has to do with Nut cases like the idiot who did the shooting. do you Really think Anyone Anywhere in the world Couldnt get a gun if they really want one? Cmon wake up. Mentally Ill people kill Inocent people. They just choose to use the easiest TOOL to do the job.
Banning guns makes it MASSIVELY harder for criminals to get their hands on them. At least in the UK we figured out after a couple of massacres that banning the guns helps stop this, and it did.

If guns aren't the reason that the US has a massive homicide rate then what is?
The UK has huge gang problems, racism and immigration issues, crazy media etc.
BUT you can STILL get a gun fairly easy if you want one there. Also, your Govt is going as far as to try and Ban Simple every day things as Kitchen Knives. How far is too Far? I mean I feel Very Very bad for what happened, It really sickens me to even watch it on the news. But the people you see doing these things are seriousely Mentally Ill.

I mean, I have seen a piece on the lawsuit against Rockstar Games for 600 million dollars, Because its alledges that GTA Vice city caused a Kid to go and shoot someone. 600 MILLION DOLLARS!!! Where did Personal responsability go? Out the window? Where did Blameing the Parents for being BAD parents and Not knowing what in the hell there Kids are Playing?  Thats Just like The poor sods getting sued under a new law about under aged girles being filmed, the guy from girls gone wild being sued and lost 2 million because he didnt get consent from every Single girl who flashed her tits. WTF, Again, PArents KNOW what goes on at spring Break, I Knew, thats WHY i went, My parents Knew, Dont tell me Parents dont know why Kids go.

Where Is personal responsability? Where is parental responsability? WTF. People say Less Govt, yet Want the Govt to deal with this shit by Taking rights away. WTF.

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