BF2S Forums Organized religion is the source of the world's violence.

read charriot of the Gods., it explains exeryting, compleat bullshit but it makes sence.

science>religion
science is open to debate and change. also to accepting they are wrong, it also tryies to slove problems and explain things wih common scens (whihc aint that common)

EDIT: i belive that people are toataly intitled to there belifs so long as they keep it to themselves. if you what a good bais on an arugment against religion then i will be happey to give you one

Last edited by [PTG]shogun (2006-09-17 11:42:22)

Fighting over political agenda has much more of a chance to prove who's right and who's wrong than fighting over religion.  If a government is doing poorly, the people will eventually have a chance to rise up and defeat it, and make things the way they want.  In religion, especially if it's forced onto you, you're told right from the beginning that questioning what they say goes against it.  So I think fighting over agendas is better because everyone has a chance to see for themselves whether or not they really want to be a part of it.  In religion, the people don't have a chance to see whether they're right or wrong, they listen to whoevers leading the church/temple or whatever.

btw mkmalfunction - I think you're saying atheism is a religion as an excuse.  No one will kill in the name of atheism unless they are being threatened by someone else, and chances are the aggresor would have some degree of religious beliefs.  You could be right, but I think you're misusing the word "relgion".  Atheists don't believe in a higher force, they believe in science only.

Last edited by Spearhead (2006-09-17 12:11:13)

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

When stupid and submissive people unite under their common religious beliefs, you have the makings of the biggest source of violence and bloodshed the world has ever seen. I find it rediculous that people are willing to kill and die in the name of their religion. We have fanatics blowing themselves up everyday, jackasses claiming that dinosaurs were put on Earth as God's test of man's faith, and those who, despite all scientific proof, claim evolution is not real. I'm not saying people aren't entitled to their beliefs, they just don't need a church between them and their god. A church isn't led by your god, it's led by humans, who, when given this power, are no less corrupt than your average crooked politician.

The extent to which organized religion can brainwash such a large majority of the world into defying science, reasoning, and truth is truly shocking....even more so than Hitler's influence over Nazi Germany. I can't help but think I'm on crazy pills when I question how can so many people be so meek. When fanatics fight in the name of their religion, do they even know why? I just see these people as zombies incapable of higher reasoning or imagination. All sides are guilty here. There is no "right" organized religion because organized religion in itself is wrong.

Discuss.

If the problem lies with organization then religion is only one of the world's sources of violence. There are others, such as nationality, political parties, countries etc.

Why are there borders between different nationalities? Why are Americans living in the US and Italians in Italy and so on? People are being organized according to their place of birth and are followers of the traditions and way of life of a space defined by "national borders".

The church was once useful, because it was the only place where people could gather up (outside the institution of the family) and act as a unit. The fact that this is not the case today is irrelevant. I think the church was the only useful thing that came out of religion.

Also, there are fanatics everywhere: in religion, politics, sport etc. That's because people get one-sided information. They only hear half of what they should.

Bottom line: whether its religion or politics, Allah or Money, its those who misinform the people you should be fighting, not their product.

Last edited by oug (2006-09-17 13:32:57)

Well Duh.

Thats all I need to say tbh.

mKmalfunction wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

When stupid and submissive people unite under their common religious beliefs, you have the makings of the biggest source of violence and bloodshed the world has ever seen. I find it rediculous that people are willing to kill and die in the name of their religion. We have fanatics blowing themselves up everyday, jackasses claiming that dinosaurs were put on Earth as God's test of man's faith, and those who, despite all scientific proof, claim evolution is not real. I'm not saying people aren't entitled to their beliefs, they just don't need a church between them and their god. A church isn't led by your god, it's led by humans, who, when given this power, are no less corrupt than your average crooked politician.

The extent to which organized religion can brainwash such a large majority of the world into defying science, reasoning, and truth is truly shocking....even more so than Hitler's influence over Nazi Germany. I can't help but think I'm on crazy pills when I question how can so many people be so meek. When fanatics fight in the name of their religion, do they even know why? I just see these people as zombies incapable of higher reasoning or imagination. All sides are guilty here. There is no "right" organized religion because organized religion in itself is wrong.

Discuss.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Religion? Yes. Organized religion? No. There is absolutely no reason why someone would need a church to worship their god. It puts the wrong people in positions of great power and influence. It has been a trend throughout human history.

I agree entirely. Organised religion causes nothing but trouble. It doesn't matter whether it's Islamic fundamentalists suicide bombing embassies or Christian fundamentalistics fire bombing abortion clinics - they're all just as bad as each other.

Organised religion should be banned worldwide as part of the war on terror, which would probably cause more problems initially, but might sort stuff out in the long run - less brainwashing bullshit.

A less drastic step would be to prevent religious people standing for government. So that at least important decisions could be made by people who aren't swayed by a 'god'. I am pleased to say that in Britain politicians know that religion is not a vote winer (you only have to google Blairs famous 'we don't do god' incident to see that). In the US however the president often seems to end public addresses with 'god bless you' or 'god bless America', which in the US seems to win votes and increase popularity. I think this intertwining of church and state is very wrong. Worse examples can be found in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran which are quite hardcore Islamic states.

As many people are brainwashed by Atheisim as any other religion. What? Athiesim isn't a religion? Sure it is. In my experience, Atheists are far more close minded than any religious people I've talked to.

Seriously, getting rid of religion wouldn't solve a damn thing. I'd go as far as saying it'd make it worse. Preventing religious people from being in Government? That's impossible. As Athiesim is a religion. Plus, it would be an unfair representation of the people.

Atheism isn't a religion in any normal sense. Atheism is not based on faith. Atheism is based on ideas backed by evidence. The ideas held by atheists evolve with changes in modern science. That is why you are right in your statement that most atheists are quite closed minded. This is because atheists tend to require some evidence before they will accept an idea. I think that is a good thing that encourages less weak minded individuals not to merely follow what others believe.

An important element of all religions is faith, atheism does not revolve around faith and is therefore not a religion in any normal sense. I realise that religion is a very ill defined concept and that you may well be able to find definitions that do not fit in with this explaination - but this is what the vast majority of people think of as religion.

Removing religion from politics is always a good thing to do. Look at what happens in states that are ruled by religion, bad things. Secular government is the only way forward. That is how the government works in the UK, although to a lesser extent than I would like. In the US there is more religion in government because that is what the voters want.

It is clear that extremely religious governments do not work well (Iran, Saudi Arabia), secular based governments work better, but there is still religion in them. Is it totally implausible that removing religion entirely from governments will help even further. That is not to say that government representatives should not be religious, only that the government itself should not acknoledge religion. Statements like 'God bless America' should not be made by politicians.

Religion is not THE problem. But it is a problem. Removing it would be good in the long term. Not disallowing people to believe in things, but putting an end to organised religion. Religious texts would still be available and religious ideas could be circulated, but by impartial third parties.

Organised religion influences the world we live in. It is not the place of these religious bodies to have such influence, yet because it has happened throughout history it is accepted. There is no place for organised religion anymore. It should be banned.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-09-17 16:31:34)

Not wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

btw mkmalfunction - I think you're saying atheism is a religion as an excuse.  No one will kill in the name of atheism unless they are being threatened by someone else, and chances are the aggresor would have some degree of religious beliefs.  You could be right, but I think you're misusing the word "relgion".  Atheists don't believe in a higher force, they believe in science only.

Where malfunction actually made his mistake was in trying to group Atheism with Organized religion. If he were to read the thread more carefully, he'd understand that the OP is not opposed to religion itself, rather the systems of control put into place by organized churches. Have you ever seen an Athiest church?

Your comparison of the two simply isn't appropriate.

I agree. There is no organisation of atheism. Peoples beliefs are not the issue here, it is the bodies that influence them in a devine name that is what is being objected to.

You could call atheism a belief. But I wouldn't, I would call it the most likely conclusion based on availiable facts.

Bubbalo wrote:

I disagree: greed is the source of all conflict.  As a source of great power, religion typically causes conflict, but in the end it all comes down to the guy at the top wanting power.

Yeah, greed is a reason - but not a means. Organised religion is a means to influence millions of people. It is not only a means but also a source of conflict, yet another difference - which is what most conflict is aboutm differences. Treating other groups of people as if they're sub-human. Ethnicity is another reason, but you can't ban that.

Bertster:  The topic is the source of the world's violence, not how it is imlemented.

i have a huge opinion on this but i dont feel like writing an essay, ill just state it: organized religion is good, and i feel it is unfair to place 99.9 percent of organized religion followers with the small percentage of muslim extremists that condone acts of terorism. muslim extremists can be looked at as super-extreme klansmen in relation to christianity, and no one i know really considers being a klansman following an organized religion, rather, organized ignorance.

Last edited by -={TTK}=-VNVnation (2006-09-17 22:35:10)

-={TTK}=-VNVnation wrote:

and i feel it is unfair to place 99.9 percent of organized religion followers with the small percentage of muslim extremists that condone acts of terorism.

So there are no Christian extremists?

Don you are hitting close - the images you have posted do not reflect the views of all christians nor in fact do al queda or others reflect muslim views, so far.

maybe generalizations are the root cause of all misunderstanding, oh don't get me started again

DonFck wrote:

Exactly. There are always extremists in each and every religion. Why muslims are getting the shitty end of the stick when it comes to generalization, can perhaps be related to western media being controlled by "Main-Stream" Christians? Dunno..

Perhaps because they like
A) Shooting women who try to get educated ( and for a host of other reasons)
B) Flying airplanes into buildings
C) Blowing themselves up in crowded places
D) Justifying all of the above under the guise of a moral crusade.
C) Spreading their religion by the sword.