Oh thats right. Muslims were peace loving hippies before that evil Bush came into office. Where have I been?Jbrar wrote:
It's because of Bush that there's so much discrimination towards muslims, then you want them to come defend themselves and tell you a bunch things that the U.S has done to Islam? It's Bush, always has been.deathlyzer wrote:
Regardless of who is in office, everybody would still hate the US. So lets put away the Bush card, it's a useless arguement.
Say 9/11 took place 5 years earlier, during the clinton years. Everybody would hate clinton, and he would be the reason my milk goes bad and everything else thats wrong.
Let me rephrase my entire question:
What has the United States done to Islam that would call for this kind of hatred?
Can a real muslim come onto these forums and answer that question for me?
I think the real issue comes with how the US gov't scopes "problems". But I suspect your hurried wording in the root of the topic that this is nothing more than lighter fluid.deathlyzer wrote:
How should the US deal with the problems we face today?
Everybody here seems to have the answer in their backpocket.
Aw, but who attacked the United States on 9/11?TheEternalPessimist wrote:
Question isnt how should the US deal with the problems its the fact the US shouldn't have caused them in the first place.
Shit happens and shit goes, it'll be dealt with in time. No-one can know how, so speculation is futile at best.
Question isnt how should the the US deal with the problems its the fact Osama, Sudam and other terrorists shouldn't have caused them in the first place.
Yeah, yeah we attacked Iraq, but if these terrorists were not fighting only for their own benifit Iraq would be a much better place...
It's always been bush? He's only been in office 5 years. Muslims hating america has been going on for a while. Next please. Kthxbai.
Osama was trained by US so, assume the responsibility.specops10-4 wrote:
Aw, but who attacked the United States on 9/11?TheEternalPessimist wrote:
Question isnt how should the US deal with the problems its the fact the US shouldn't have caused them in the first place.
Shit happens and shit goes, it'll be dealt with in time. No-one can know how, so speculation is futile at best.
Question isnt how should the the US deal with the problems its the fact Osama, Sudam and other terrorists shouldn't have caused them in the first place.
Yeah, yeah we attacked Iraq, but if these terrorists were not fighting only for their own benifit Iraq would be a much better place...
What problem did Saddam cause to US, before US sold him weapons in the 80's, then US invaded Iraq to fight against your own weapons.
Last edited by sergeriver (2006-09-12 04:25:27)
Hezbollah are not leaders, they are part of the government. Hezbollah are considered to be freedom fighters in many people eyes, and are only regarded as terrorist by a limited amount of countries. Including US, UK kind off, Canada, Isreal, Netherlands and Australia, that's it.rawls2 wrote:
How about Syria and Lebonan. You know..those countries that let Hezbollah do their talking. And my us vs. them idea-thats the reality, face it.mafia996630 wrote:
FOR EXAMPLE ..................rawls2 wrote:
Cameron, face it, its them vs. us If you wanna stand on the sidelines go ahead. That doesn't mean they wont take your head either. I don't neeed to read your anti-Israeli articles. I believe in God and the Bible. That is enough for me to feel the way I do about Islam. Your not religious, fine. But when the leaders of Islam say, death to the west, thats a problem. I don't care that the common muslim wants peace and a normal life. The problem is that they are not in charge, it's the extremist that rule the countries and make the decisions.
all i can think of is Iran maybe, Saddam maybe, that about it. Which leaders are you talking about ?
And this "us V them" is really a good attitude, your gone get far!
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah
Until the common Muslim tries to chop my head off, there is no "us V them". Your spreading hate if you really believe this.
We support Israel because we have a common a common enemy. Thats kinda how things work in the real world.
Believing that radical muslims just want peace and relations with the world is wrong. You have to convert to be at peace with them. Unfortunately the majority of muslims get dragged into this.
I just think it's nuts how these muslims will kill themselves and everything around them in the name of god.
Are you getting my drift? It's not a republican or democrat thing anymore, at least it shouldn't be.
These guys dont care about ANYTHING. They'll kill you and everybody you know to satisfy their bloodthirsty religious beliefs.
They all just need to die cause thats all they wanna do anyway. Let's give'em a hand.
They're evil, they celebrate death and destruction!
Some believe that they really want peace with us.
Believing that radical muslims just want peace and relations with the world is wrong. You have to convert to be at peace with them. Unfortunately the majority of muslims get dragged into this.
I just think it's nuts how these muslims will kill themselves and everything around them in the name of god.
Are you getting my drift? It's not a republican or democrat thing anymore, at least it shouldn't be.
These guys dont care about ANYTHING. They'll kill you and everybody you know to satisfy their bloodthirsty religious beliefs.
They all just need to die cause thats all they wanna do anyway. Let's give'em a hand.
They're evil, they celebrate death and destruction!
Some believe that they really want peace with us.
So what about the USS Cole, Kandahar Marine Barracks, Pan am flight 400, WTC 93. Our embassy in Tanzia Our embassy in Kenya Etc.. just when were you borne ?Jbrar wrote:
It's because of Bush that there's so much discrimination towards muslims, then you want them to come defend themselves and tell you a bunch things that the U.S has done to Islam? It's Bush, always has been.deathlyzer wrote:
Regardless of who is in office, everybody would still hate the US. So lets put away the Bush card, it's a useless arguement.
Say 9/11 took place 5 years earlier, during the clinton years. Everybody would hate clinton, and he would be the reason my milk goes bad and everything else thats wrong.
Let me rephrase my entire question:
What has the United States done to Islam that would call for this kind of hatred?
Can a real muslim come onto these forums and answer that question for me?
If 9/11 took place 5 years earlier... it might have cut off the IRA's funding 5 years earlier and peace in Northern Ireland might be 5 years further on down the line. That would be a good thing. It would probably have meant they wouldn't have bombed my local railway station in 1997, in the run up to the general election, which would also have been a good thing.deathlyzer wrote:
Regardless of who is in office, everybody would still hate the US. So lets put away the Bush card, it's a useless arguement.
Say 9/11 took place 5 years earlier, during the clinton years. Everybody would hate clinton, and he would be the reason my milk goes bad and everything else thats wrong.
Let me rephrase my entire question:
What has the United States done to Islam that would call for this kind of hatred?
Can a real muslim come onto these forums and answer that question for me?
Who knows what Clinton would have done? You can only guess what would have happened and, since it didn't, any guess is as good as any other.
As for what the USA has done to Islam, that's a difficult question and the only answer I can come up with is "nothing". Sure, they've bankrolled and armed Israel, as well as backing them in the UN even when everyone else knows Israel is in the wrong. But that is an injustice to the neighbouring Arabic states, not to Islam. Yes I realise that a great many people in those same Arabic states do follow the Islam religion but it's not exactly a crime against the Islam itself.
Perhaps it's the freedoms enjoyed by women, perhaps it's the gradual decline in social values, the love of gambling and alcohol, perhaps therea are many things that anger the Muslim fundamentalists about "Western" society vbut I don't think the US (or the rest of the "first world" has done anything specific to Islam.
Since nobody here is going to solve our problems, I thought it would be nice to post for the one US citizen that is actually working 24/7 to make a diffrence and help us all through these tough times.deathlyzer wrote:
How should the US deal with the problems we face today?
Everybody here seems to have the answer in their backpocket.
President Bush wrote:
Five years ago, this date - September the 11th - was seared into America's memory. Nineteen men attacked us with a barbarity unequaled in our history. They murdered people of all colors, creeds, and nationalities - and made war upon the entire free world. Since that day, America and her allies have taken the offensive in a war unlike any we have fought before. Today, we are safer, but we are not yet safe. On this solemn night, I have asked for some of your time to discuss the nature of the threat still before us ... what we are doing to protect our Nation ... and the building of a more hopeful Middle East that holds the key to peace for America and the world.
On Nine-Eleven, our Nation saw the face of evil. Yet on that awful day, we also witnessed something distinctly American: ordinary citizens rising to the occasion, and responding with extraordinary acts of courage. We saw courage in office workers who were trapped on the high floors of burning skyscrapers - and called home so that their last words to their families would be of comfort and love. We saw courage in passengers aboard Flight 93, who recited the 23rd Psalm - and then charged the cockpit. And we saw courage in the Pentagon staff who made it out of the flames and smoke - and ran back in to answer cries for help. On this day, we remember the innocent who lost their lives - and we pay tribute to those who gave their lives so that others might live.
For many of our citizens, the wounds of that morning are still fresh. I have met firefighters and police officers who choke up at the memory of fallen comrades. I have stood with families gathered on a grassy field in Pennsylvania, who take bittersweet pride in loved ones who refused to be victims - and gave America our first victory in the war on terror. And I have sat beside young mothers with children who are now five-years-old - and still long for the daddies who will never cradle them in their arms. Out of this suffering, we resolve to honor every man and woman lost. And we seek their lasting memorial in a safer and more hopeful world.
Since the horror of Nine-Eleven, we have learned a great deal about the enemy. We have learned that they are evil and kill without mercy - but not without purpose. We have learned that they form a global network of extremists who are driven by a perverted vision of Islam - a totalitarian ideology that hates freedom, rejects tolerance, and despises all dissent. And we have learned that their goal is to build a radical Islamic empire where women are prisoners in their homes, men are beaten for missing prayer meetings, and terrorists have a safe haven to plan and launch attacks on America and other civilized nations. The war against this enemy is more than a military conflict. It is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century, and the calling of our generation.
Our Nation is being tested in a way that we have not been since the start of the Cold War. We saw what a handful of our enemies can do with box-cutters and plane tickets. We hear their threats to launch even more terrible attacks on our people. And we know that if they were able to get their hands on weapons of mass destruction, they would use them against us. We face an enemy determined to bring death and suffering into our homes. America did not ask for this war, and every American wishes it were over. So do I. But the war is not over - and it will not be over until either we or the extremists emerge victorious. If we do not defeat these enemies now, we will leave our children to face a Middle East overrun by terrorist states and radical dictators armed with nuclear weapons. We are in a war that will set the course for this new century - and determine the destiny of millions across the world.
For America, Nine-Eleven was more than a tragedy - it changed the way we look at the world. On September the 11th, we resolved that we would go on the offense against our enemies - and we would not distinguish between the terrorists and those who harbor or support them. So we helped drive the Taliban from power in Afghanistan. We put al Qaeda on the run, and killed or captured most of those who planned the Nine-Eleven attacks - including the man believed to be the mastermind, Khalid Sheik Mohammed. He and other suspected terrorists have been questioned by the Central Intelligence Agency - and they have provided valuable information that has helped stop attacks in America and across the world. Now these men have been transferred to Guantanamo Bay, so they can be held to account for their actions. Osama Bin Laden and other terrorists are still in hiding. Our message to them is clear: No matter how long it takes, America will find you, and we will bring you to justice.
On September the 11th, we learned that America must confront threats before they reach our shores - whether those threats come from terrorist networks or terrorist states. I am often asked why we are in Iraq when Saddam Hussein was not responsible for the Nine-Eleven attacks. The answer is that the regime of Saddam Hussein was a clear threat. My Administration, the Congress, and the United Nations saw the threat - and after Nine-Eleven, Saddam's regime posed a risk that the world could not afford to take. The world is safer because Saddam Hussein is no longer in power. And now the challenge is to help the Iraqi people build a democracy that fulfills the dreams of the nearly 12 million Iraqis who came out to vote in free elections last December.
Al Qaeda and other extremists from across the world have come to Iraq to stop the rise of a free society in the heart of the Middle East. They have joined the remnants of Saddam's regime and other armed groups to foment sectarian violence and drive us out. Our enemies in Iraq are tough and they are committed - but so are Iraqi and Coalition forces. We are adapting to stay ahead of the enemy - and we are carrying out a clear plan to ensure that a democratic Iraq succeeds.
We are training Iraqi troops so they can defend their nation. We are helping Iraq's unity government grow in strength and serve its people. We will not leave until this work is done. Whatever mistakes have been made in Iraq, the worst mistake would be to think that if we pulled out, the terrorists would leave us alone. They will not leave us alone. They will follow us. The safety of America depends on the outcome of the battle in the streets of Baghdad. Osama Bin Laden calls this fight "the Third World War" - and he says that victory for the terrorists in Iraq will mean America's "defeat and disgrace forever." If we yield Iraq to men like Bin Laden, our enemies will be emboldened ... they will gain a new safe haven ... and they will use Iraq's resources to fuel their extremist movement. We will not allow this to happen. America will stay in the fight. Iraq will be a free nation, and a strong ally in the war on terror.
We can be confident that our Coalition will succeed - because the Iraqi people have been steadfast in the face of unspeakable violence. And we can be confident in victory - because of the skill and resolve of America's Armed Forces. Every one of our troops is a volunteer, and since the attacks of September the 11th, more than 1.6 million Americans have stepped forward to put on our Nation's uniform. In Iraq, Afghanistan, and other fronts in the war on terror, the men and women of our military are making great sacrifices to keep us safe. Some have suffered terrible injuries - and nearly 3,000 have given their lives. America cherishes their memory. We pray for their families. And we will never back down from the work they have begun.
We also honor those who toil day and night to keep our homeland safe - and we are giving them the tools they need to protect our people. We have created the Department of Homeland Security ... we have torn down the wall that kept law enforcement and intelligence from sharing information ... we have tightened security at our airports, seaports, and borders ... and we have created new programs to monitor enemy bank records and phone calls. Thanks to the hard work of our law enforcement and intelligence professionals, we have broken up terrorist cells in our midst, and saved American lives.
Five years after Nine-Eleven, our enemies have not succeeded in launching another attack on our soil - but they have not been idle. Al Qaeda and those inspired by its hateful ideology have carried out terrorist attacks in more than two dozen nations. And just last month, they were foiled in a plot to blow up passenger planes headed for the United States. They remain determined to attack America and kill our citizens - and we are determined to stop them. We will continue to give the men and women who protect us every resource and legal authority they need to do their jobs.
In the first days after the Nine-Eleven attacks, I promised to use every element of national power to fight the terrorists wherever we find them. One of the strongest weapons in our arsenal is the power of freedom. The terrorists fear freedom as much as they do our firepower. They are thrown into panic at the sight of an old man pulling the election lever ... girls enrolling in school ... or families worshiping God in their own traditions. They know that given a choice, people will choose freedom over their extremist ideology. So their answer is to deny people this choice by raging against the forces of freedom and moderation. This struggle has been called a clash of civilizations. In truth, it is a struggle for civilization. We are fighting to maintain the way of life enjoyed by free nations. And we are fighting for the possibility that good and decent people across the Middle East can raise up societies based on freedom, and tolerance, and personal dignity.
We are now in the early hours of this struggle between tyranny and freedom. Amid the violence, some question whether the people of the Middle East want their freedom - and whether the forces of moderation can prevail. For sixty years, these doubts guided our policies in the Middle East. And then, on a bright September morning, it became clear that the calm we saw in the Middle East was only a mirage. Years of pursuing stability to promote peace had left us with neither. So we changed our policies, and committed America's influence in the world to advancing freedom and democracy as the great alternatives to repression and radicalism.
With our help, the people of the Middle East are now stepping forward to claim their freedom. From Kabul to Baghdad to Beirut, there are brave men and women risking their lives each day for the same freedoms that we enjoy. And they have one question of us: Do we have the confidence to do in the Middle East what our fathers and grandfathers accomplished in Europe and Asia? By standing with democratic leaders and reformers, by giving voice to the hopes of decent men and women, we are offering a path away from radicalism. And we are enlisting the most powerful force for peace and moderation in the Middle East: The desire of millions to be free.
Across the broader Middle East, the extremists are fighting to prevent such a future. Yet America has confronted evil before, and we have defeated it - sometimes at the cost of thousands of good men in a single battle. When Franklin Roosevelt vowed to defeat two enemies across two oceans, he could not have foreseen D-Day and Iwo Jima - but he would not have been surprised at the outcome. When Harry Truman promised American support for free peoples resisting Soviet aggression, he could not have foreseen the rise of the Berlin Wall - but he would not have been surprised to see it brought down. Throughout our history, America has seen liberty challenged - and every time, we have seen liberty triumph with sacrifice and determination.
At the start of this young century, America looks to the day when the people of the Middle East leave the desert of despotism for the fertile gardens of liberty - and resume their rightful place in a world of peace and prosperity. We look to the day when the nations of that region recognize that their greatest resource is not the oil in the ground - but the talent and creativity of their people. We look to the day when moms and dads throughout the Middle East see a future of hope and opportunity for their children. And when that good day comes, the clouds of war will part ... the appeal of radicalism will decline ... and we will leave our children with a better and safer world. On this solemn anniversary, we rededicate ourselves to this cause. Our Nation has endured trials - and we face a difficult road ahead. Winning this war will require the determined efforts of a unified country. So we must put aside our differences, and work together to meet the test that history has given us. We will defeat our enemies ... we will protect our people ... and we will lead the 21st century into a shining age of human liberty.
Earlier this year, I traveled to the United States Military Academy. I was there to deliver the commencement address to the first class to arrive at West Point after the attacks of September the 11th. That day I met a proud mom named RoseEllen Dowdell. She was there to watch her son Patrick accept his commission in the finest Army the world has ever known. A few weeks earlier, RoseEllen had watched her other son, James, graduate from the Fire Academy in New York City. On both these days, her thoughts turned to someone who was not there to share the moment: her husband, Kevin Dowdell. Kevin was one of the 343 firefighters who rushed to the burning towers of the World Trade Center on September the 11th - and never came home. His sons lost their father that day - but not the passion for service he instilled in them. Here is what RoseEllen says about her boys, "As a mother, I cross my fingers and pray all the time for their safety - but as worried as I am, I am also proud - and I know their dad would be too."
Our Nation is blessed to have young Americans like these - and we will need them. Dangerous enemies have declared their intention to destroy our way of life. They are not the first to try - and their fate will be the same as those who tried before. Nine-Eleven showed us why. The attacks were meant to bring us to our knees, and they did - but not in the way the terrorists intended. Americans united in prayer ... came to the aid of neighbors in need ... and resolved that our enemies would not have the last word. The spirit of our people is the source of America's strength. And we go forward with trust in that spirit, confidence in our purpose - and faith in a loving God who made us to be free.
Thank you, and may God bless you.
damn you type fast
"SUPERTRANSCRIPTOR!!!"
I think my favorite part was
"They are thrown into panic at the sight of an old man pulling the election lever ... girls enrolling in school ... or families worshiping God in their own traditions."
Big bad jihaadists scared of literate girls.........
putzes
"SUPERTRANSCRIPTOR!!!"
I think my favorite part was
"They are thrown into panic at the sight of an old man pulling the election lever ... girls enrolling in school ... or families worshiping God in their own traditions."
Big bad jihaadists scared of literate girls.........
putzes
Last edited by kr@cker (2006-09-11 18:53:08)
I had a little help from the BBC...
LOL, the first place I looked was the Whitehouse website.. but they didn't have the speach up yet.. so I googled it and the BBC was the only site posting the entire transcript.
LOL, the first place I looked was the Whitehouse website.. but they didn't have the speach up yet.. so I googled it and the BBC was the only site posting the entire transcript.
Wow, Ctwo...
I'm sorry, but Bush is not going to be the one to pull us out of this. It's not an intended part of his or his cronies' agenda. That entire extremist part of the right-wing crowd (which most of the GOP is starting to pull away from now in order to gain more votes); they are all acting as Republicans before acting as Americans, and are only concerned with the advancement of their cause, no matter how many Americans are left behind.
You have nothing but blind Nationalist pride to blame for that, riled up by the Bush administration with their whole "With us or Against us" attitude. This country wasn't founded to be a Nationalist society, it was founded on the basis of dissent, and anyone attempting to force such a large issue as a War on a Concept and expecting 100% of America to be supportive of it is an example of un-Americanism at it's prime.
I'm sorry, but Bush is not going to be the one to pull us out of this. It's not an intended part of his or his cronies' agenda. That entire extremist part of the right-wing crowd (which most of the GOP is starting to pull away from now in order to gain more votes); they are all acting as Republicans before acting as Americans, and are only concerned with the advancement of their cause, no matter how many Americans are left behind.
You have nothing but blind Nationalist pride to blame for that, riled up by the Bush administration with their whole "With us or Against us" attitude. This country wasn't founded to be a Nationalist society, it was founded on the basis of dissent, and anyone attempting to force such a large issue as a War on a Concept and expecting 100% of America to be supportive of it is an example of un-Americanism at it's prime.
Marconius, everyone knows that San Francisco is full of liberal faggots who are blind to suburban struggle for small businesses such as Wal-Mart and that your opinion is full of shit because of where you live.
/sarcasm
/sarcasm
What about the Marines who were killed in 83 protecting the Lebonese from a civil war. What did they do to deserve the wrath of Hezbollah?mafia996630 wrote:
Hezbollah are not leaders, they are part of the government. Hezbollah are considered to be freedom fighters in many people eyes, and are only regarded as terrorist by a limited amount of countries. Including US, UK kind off, Canada, Isreal, Netherlands and Australia, that's it.rawls2 wrote:
How about Syria and Lebonan. You know..those countries that let Hezbollah do their talking. And my us vs. them idea-thats the reality, face it.mafia996630 wrote:
FOR EXAMPLE ..................
all i can think of is Iran maybe, Saddam maybe, that about it. Which leaders are you talking about ?
And this "us V them" is really a good attitude, your gone get far!
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah
Until the common Muslim tries to chop my head off, there is no "us V them". Your spreading hate if you really believe this.
Thank you Spearhead... *facepalm*
they knew that Bush was going to be president in 2006, it was a pre-emptive strike
yeah so we get nuked also lol, dumb ideastarkingdoms wrote:
simultaneous nuclear strike on every major non-usa city!
We need to focus on three things, imo.
Homeland Security and negotiating with threats such as NK and Iran.
Space exploration, as earth is becoming too over populated and if we could have bases on the moon in an oxygen enclosed atmosphere, it would be HUGE.
The enviornment. Although deforestation has gone down, global warming is still happening (I think it is, you may not) and if we don't stop it, head for the hills.
Homeland Security and negotiating with threats such as NK and Iran.
Space exploration, as earth is becoming too over populated and if we could have bases on the moon in an oxygen enclosed atmosphere, it would be HUGE.
The enviornment. Although deforestation has gone down, global warming is still happening (I think it is, you may not) and if we don't stop it, head for the hills.
Throughout history, especially during the middle ages, the Middle East was lightyears ahead of the west in technology, mathmatics, warfare, etc. They dwarfed the rest of the world in enlightenment during this time. They preserved much of history as we know it. It was through Palestinians that we have things such as the writings of Aristotle. They understood the importance of the past, and learning from it far before any of us westerners.
In the last 1000 years they have gone from leaders and trailblazers to what much of the rest of the world consider mud hut dwellers. There are many reasons for this, but to many Muslim Spiritual leaders there is only one. Like most other religions, Islamists believe that the sinful will be chastized by God for their evil deeds. Many Islamic extremists beleive the reason that most of the Muslim world is poor and trailing behind much of the rest of the world is because of the Muslim peoples sinfullness which they believe is often influenced by western hedonism. The western way of life is truly a factor in this.
Our support of Israel is a factor, but an irrellevant one. Hate Eisenhower, and the financial influence that Jewish Pollitical Action Commities have on U.S. politics, or whatever you want, but Israel is a Jewish state. Israel does now, and always has done what they have to to survive, and not just militarily. They have made major concessions such as Gaza only to have missle strikes launched at them from Gaza.
The truth is, if the Palestinians stopped fighting there would be peace, but if the Israelis stopped fighting, there would be genecide. No matter what decisions have been made in the past, I believe it would be wrong to abandon them to death now. Israel is a non-issue issue to me.
You also have to remember that there have been recent Muslim attacks in various countries including the UK, Spain, and India - non of which has done a hell of a lot to support Israel.
Against the advice of Janet Reno, Clinton bombed a Sudanese medical facility in the 90's as a terror response. The next day the Sudanese government asked for a U.N. task force to come down to the Sudan to investigate the facilities remains to prove that it was not a bin Laden hideout. This would have forced the U.S. to rebuild the medical facility (which was one of the only real medical facilities in the area). Because the U.S. basically owns the U.N. we put a stop to the task force instead of admitting our hasty mistake. It is unknown how many death can be attributed to the loss of this facility.
These are a few of about a million factors that contribute to the current situation. I would like to name a lot more, but this post is already way to long. Please feel free to look up everything I have written here. Sorry I am too lazy to post references.
The fact is that some of the factors we could try to repair, and those reparations might satisfy some Islamic extremists, but not many. In many ways, at this point it really is "free world" vs " Islamofacism," and there is nothing any of us can do about it (even Bush).
I like Bush, for the same reason I like Ted Kennedy. He is consistant, and he does what he beleives is right. Bush has made, what I consider, big mistakes, but if you honestly believe he went to Iraq for oil, money, fame, or to stick up for his daddy, you need to stop watching so many movies. Remember that this is the real world, and that Michael Moore knows propoganda better than the Bush Administration and Hitler combined. Remember that good things have happened in Iraq and Afganisthan, and that by all real numbers we have more supporters in Iraq than al Queida.
Iraqi terrorists = +/- 10,000. Iraqi military fighting for a free Iraq = +/- 150,000.
Respect people because they have the courage to do what they think is right. It is ridiculous to respect someone simply because they happen to believe exactly what you believe.
On that note, to those of you in the UK, losing Tony Blair is a travesty. What an incredible loss to your nation.
So, what I meant to say is that there are millions of factors, real and imagined, and there is nothing that can be done about most of them at this point in time.
In the last 1000 years they have gone from leaders and trailblazers to what much of the rest of the world consider mud hut dwellers. There are many reasons for this, but to many Muslim Spiritual leaders there is only one. Like most other religions, Islamists believe that the sinful will be chastized by God for their evil deeds. Many Islamic extremists beleive the reason that most of the Muslim world is poor and trailing behind much of the rest of the world is because of the Muslim peoples sinfullness which they believe is often influenced by western hedonism. The western way of life is truly a factor in this.
Our support of Israel is a factor, but an irrellevant one. Hate Eisenhower, and the financial influence that Jewish Pollitical Action Commities have on U.S. politics, or whatever you want, but Israel is a Jewish state. Israel does now, and always has done what they have to to survive, and not just militarily. They have made major concessions such as Gaza only to have missle strikes launched at them from Gaza.
The truth is, if the Palestinians stopped fighting there would be peace, but if the Israelis stopped fighting, there would be genecide. No matter what decisions have been made in the past, I believe it would be wrong to abandon them to death now. Israel is a non-issue issue to me.
You also have to remember that there have been recent Muslim attacks in various countries including the UK, Spain, and India - non of which has done a hell of a lot to support Israel.
Against the advice of Janet Reno, Clinton bombed a Sudanese medical facility in the 90's as a terror response. The next day the Sudanese government asked for a U.N. task force to come down to the Sudan to investigate the facilities remains to prove that it was not a bin Laden hideout. This would have forced the U.S. to rebuild the medical facility (which was one of the only real medical facilities in the area). Because the U.S. basically owns the U.N. we put a stop to the task force instead of admitting our hasty mistake. It is unknown how many death can be attributed to the loss of this facility.
These are a few of about a million factors that contribute to the current situation. I would like to name a lot more, but this post is already way to long. Please feel free to look up everything I have written here. Sorry I am too lazy to post references.
The fact is that some of the factors we could try to repair, and those reparations might satisfy some Islamic extremists, but not many. In many ways, at this point it really is "free world" vs " Islamofacism," and there is nothing any of us can do about it (even Bush).
I like Bush, for the same reason I like Ted Kennedy. He is consistant, and he does what he beleives is right. Bush has made, what I consider, big mistakes, but if you honestly believe he went to Iraq for oil, money, fame, or to stick up for his daddy, you need to stop watching so many movies. Remember that this is the real world, and that Michael Moore knows propoganda better than the Bush Administration and Hitler combined. Remember that good things have happened in Iraq and Afganisthan, and that by all real numbers we have more supporters in Iraq than al Queida.
Iraqi terrorists = +/- 10,000. Iraqi military fighting for a free Iraq = +/- 150,000.
Respect people because they have the courage to do what they think is right. It is ridiculous to respect someone simply because they happen to believe exactly what you believe.
On that note, to those of you in the UK, losing Tony Blair is a travesty. What an incredible loss to your nation.
So, what I meant to say is that there are millions of factors, real and imagined, and there is nothing that can be done about most of them at this point in time.
Funny you say this being from the down under. Seeing as Australia didn't sign it either.mcminty wrote:
And America could also sign the Kyoto Protocol, and stop fucking the earth up... but it ain't gonna happen.
Mcminty.
We'll sign it when China and India follows it. They signed and yet ," India and China, which have ratified the protocol, are not required to reduce carbon emissions under the present agreement despite their relatively large populations." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol
China is the number 2 and India is number 4. Count on those numbers increasing drastically as they become more technologically advanced. I'm sure China will pass the U.S. and yet the can sign the protocol and not reduce emissions..how convenient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co … _emissions)
By signing this it would put the United States at a economic disadvantage.
QFT!!unnamednewbie13 wrote:
I can't wait until Bush's term is over...just so I can see every one's disillusioned expressions when the world doesn't erupt into a chorus of rainbows in everlasting peace and mutual prosperity.
I agree to disagree with everything you sayCameronPoe wrote:
Turn 'the west' into an impenetrable fortress, take Israel to task over its atrocities and state terrorism, withdraw from Iraq and let them have their civil war and hand the Republican party back to traditional isolationists (not neo-conservative imperialists), stop supporting unpopular puppet regimes, stop interfering in the politics of sovereign nations. Bit simplistic but in general I think that would improve things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Kuwaitsergeriver wrote:
What problem did Saddam cause to US, before US invaded Iraq?
say what? whats that? what did he do? oh yeah....
_____________________________________________
i can't wait to shoot some of you thick headed people on saturday.
VIVA LA [Con]
"Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!"
I'd definately like to be one of the first people to live on one of those moon colonies Poseidon was talking about, if we ever have one in the near future
to clarify the question: "How should the US deal with the [foreign relations] problems we face today?"deathlyzer wrote:
How should the US deal with the problems we face today?
Everybody here seems to have the answer in their backpocket.
i think a big part of the problem lies with the US being a socialist capitalist society. i'm not going to say oil was or is a motivation for US occupation of Iraq, but i do think money plays a bigger part than most of us think (google "Merchants of Death").
there is also a growing percentage of the population within the US that is beginning to see the negative aspects of our society. a capitalist society has many benefits, but its far from perfect. consider the fact that 1% of the US population controls 40% of our wealth, and this ratio is just going to get worse for the average joe over time.
there is now mutual agreement between Russia and China against the US, in regards to 'American Global Leadership'. they both express concern and disagreement of our current approach, which is outlined in the PNAC, specifically the document titled, "Rebuilding America's Defenses". Being a citizen of the US, I find this extremely concerning.
to put it bluntly, i think America should get it's nose out of the collective world's ass. i would like to see freedom ring across the whole world, but not through military agression, which is what i read between the lines of our current foreign relations strategy.
Last edited by TinMaN (2006-09-12 01:31:02)
Coming from an illeterate president, former alcoholic, and who won elections by strange means, that's quite funnykr@cker wrote:
damn you type fast
"SUPERTRANSCRIPTOR!!!"
I think my favorite part was
"They are thrown into panic at the sight of an old man pulling the election lever ... girls enrolling in school ... or families worshiping God in their own traditions."
Big bad jihaadists scared of literate girls.........
putzes
Last edited by dead_rac00n (2006-09-11 23:32:16)