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2006-09-10 13:35:01
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6687

PRiMACORD wrote:

You reach and you reach but you continue to fail. You mention legalities involved and registration. What legalities are involved in destroying the car? It's obvious they destroyed it just for fun, why else wouldn't they remove the wood the ebil iraqis looted? Answer that? They don't give a fuck.
Once again, whether or not the soldiers had fun doing this is irrelevant. Stop bringing your emotions into this debate, simply look at the facts. The Iraqis were caught looting, and were punished lightly. The soldiers would have been just as justified in shooting them, had they done so when they caught them looting.


PRiMACORD wrote:

Destroying a working car in Iraq is the dumbest thing you can do, a car is extremely usefull and rare commodity in a hostile chaotic situation. They ran it over in the Abrams to look all big and bad, too bad an IED wasn't in the car.
And those Iraqis used that car to take advantage of that hostile choatic situation. Whether or not they looted that wood for their own survival is also irrelevant. Looting is a crime, no matter what the motive is. If you insist on being so emotional, think of the owner of that wood...did he deserve to have it stolen from him? What if selling wood was his livelihood? Even it was, it is still irrelevant. Once again, you are only making it more and more apparent how much this propaganda has so easily influenced you.

PRiMACORD wrote:

You are blind, everything that shows the military in a negative fashion is immediately cast it off as propaganda.

People like these and people like you is why we had a 9/11.
The video is propaganda because what is shown in it does not tell the whole story, no matter who's favor it would be in. Instead, the commentator tells and can shape the story in any way he see fits, by just showing a very short video clip, possibly taken out of context. I find it ironic that you call me "blind". I am acknowledging both possible sides of the situation, but basing my analysis soley on the facts presented to us. You base your argument on irrelevent concepts, such as motive and whether or not the soldiers "enjoyed" their act of law enforcement. The Iraqis comitted a crime and were punished accordingly.


PRiMACORD wrote:

Once again, half your post is a bunch of mindless insults, trying to cover the fact that you can't debate. Also, try something called paragraphs, your post matches the eloquence of a Bush speech, gg.
To all of you spectating this debate, is this not the funniest thing you've read all day?


Logic > Emotion.

https://www.delos.fantascienza.com/imgbank/74/sfp/startrek/spock.jpg

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-09-10 13:41:25)

2006-09-10 13:47:00
E1_ned
Member
+8|6535|netherlands
it is kind of funny ....
some people shouldn't be here on the forum. insulting is not debating.
my opinion has changed a little.... if u see this u tend to think : is this the American way?

but the there are people that set me straight.... thanx for feeling harmonious with the world again
and that i don't have to go on living thinking all pro US are morons....

But then again...... allot are (see second line) use argument not insults... if u can't.... come back when you've grown hair below the bellybutton... no offense
2006-09-10 14:01:43
E1_ned
Member
+8|6535|netherlands
but if u are soooo against the emotions in a debate..... why are you getting soooo emotional about this?
you debate (i think) with just as much emotion as the rest.
u are very pro US ( no problem with me .... democracy) but don't u think their actions were a little harsh?



The Iraqis were caught looting, and were punished lightly    huh?????lightly???

if u have nothing except a car and a pocket full of sand.... don't u think a car is pretty prescious to you?
2006-09-10 14:34:09
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6798|Argentina

Fancy_Pollux. wrote:

Once again, whether or not the soldiers had fun doing this is irrelevant. Stop bringing your emotions into this debate, simply look at the facts. The Iraqis were caught looting, and were punished lightly. The soldiers would have been just as justified in shooting them, had they done so when they caught them looting.
You are kidding right, like in your "I knocked my girlfriend" post or that story of the 42 inches turd of yours.  How come the soldiers would have been justified in shooting them, that's what they taught you?  In which country were you Born?  I don't think in America they shoot you for stealing some wood.

Fancy_Pollux. wrote:

And those Iraqis used that car to take advantage of that hostile choatic situation. Whether or not they looted that wood for their own survival is also irrelevant. Looting is a crime, no matter what the motive is. If you insist on being so emotional, think of the owner of that wood...did he deserve to have it stolen from him? What if selling wood was his livelihood? Even it was, it is still irrelevant. Once again, you are only making it more and more apparent how much this propaganda has so easily influenced you.
If that was the case that is no US soldiers problem.  You can't smash a car with a tank that is property of the US army.  I think you are the one who ate a lot of propaganda and is not thinking clearly, or not thinking at all.

Fancy_Pollux. wrote:

The video is propaganda because what is shown in it does not tell the whole story, no matter who's favor it would be in. Instead, the commentator tells and can shape the story in any way he see fits, by just showing a very short video clip, possibly taken out of context. I find it ironic that you call me "blind". I am acknowledging both possible sides of the situation, but basing my analysis soley on the facts presented to us. You base your argument on irrelevent concepts, such as motive and whether or not the soldiers "enjoyed" their act of law enforcement. The Iraqis comitted a crime and were punished accordingly.
How can you say the Iraqis were punished accordingly to the crime committed?  So, using your knowledge of justice the proper punishment for Wynona Ryder for stealing cloth would have been her limo smashed by a tank or she could even get shot for that.

Fancy_Pollux. wrote:

To all of you spectating this debate, is this not the funniest thing you've read all day?

Logic > Emotion.

http://www.delos.fantascienza.com/imgba … /spock.jpg
Yes, specially your posts dude.

Logic > Emotion > Fancy Pollux
2006-09-10 14:38:50
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6666|Home of the Escalade Herds

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

think of the owner of that wood...did he deserve to have it stolen from him? What if selling wood was his livelihood?
Apparently reading isn't your strong suit.

PRiMACORD wrote:

It's obvious they destroyed it just for fun, why else wouldn't they remove the wood the ebil iraqis looted? Answer that?
Like you said, poor wood owner. Why didn't they spend a few minutes removing the wood and giving it to the owner? They didn't care, they ran over the wood to; they just wanted to run over a car with a tank, HOOAH.
2006-09-10 14:43:15
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6622|SE London

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

PRiMACORD wrote:

You reach and you reach but you continue to fail. You mention legalities involved and registration. What legalities are involved in destroying the car? It's obvious they destroyed it just for fun, why else wouldn't they remove the wood the ebil iraqis looted? Answer that? They don't give a fuck.
Once again, whether or not the soldiers had fun doing this is irrelevant. Stop bringing your emotions into this debate, simply look at the facts. The Iraqis were caught looting, and were punished lightly. The soldiers would have been just as justified in shooting them, had they done so when they caught them looting.


PRiMACORD wrote:

Destroying a working car in Iraq is the dumbest thing you can do, a car is extremely usefull and rare commodity in a hostile chaotic situation. They ran it over in the Abrams to look all big and bad, too bad an IED wasn't in the car.
And those Iraqis used that car to take advantage of that hostile choatic situation. Whether or not they looted that wood for their own survival is also irrelevant. Looting is a crime, no matter what the motive is. If you insist on being so emotional, think of the owner of that wood...did he deserve to have it stolen from him? What if selling wood was his livelihood? Even it was, it is still irrelevant. Once again, you are only making it more and more apparent how much this propaganda has so easily influenced you.

PRiMACORD wrote:

You are blind, everything that shows the military in a negative fashion is immediately cast it off as propaganda.

People like these and people like you is why we had a 9/11.
The video is propaganda because what is shown in it does not tell the whole story, no matter who's favor it would be in. Instead, the commentator tells and can shape the story in any way he see fits, by just showing a very short video clip, possibly taken out of context. I find it ironic that you call me "blind". I am acknowledging both possible sides of the situation, but basing my analysis soley on the facts presented to us. You base your argument on irrelevent concepts, such as motive and whether or not the soldiers "enjoyed" their act of law enforcement. The Iraqis comitted a crime and were punished accordingly.


PRiMACORD wrote:

Once again, half your post is a bunch of mindless insults, trying to cover the fact that you can't debate. Also, try something called paragraphs, your post matches the eloquence of a Bush speech, gg.
To all of you spectating this debate, is this not the funniest thing you've read all day?


Logic > Emotion.

http://www.delos.fantascienza.com/imgba … /spock.jpg
Are you completely insane?

They would not have been justified in shooting them in any way. I don't know what you think you're talking about. Punished lightly? For taking some wood out of some rubble - I think not. That is not proper looting anyway. If the wood was that precious surely the American soldiers should have been punished at least equally harshly for destroying it. Maybe they should all be tracked down and have their cars crushed.

Logic > Emotion.

A statement I agree with entirely, shame you haven't been using it to govern some of the nonsense you wrote in your previous post.

I agree whether the soldiers had fun doing it is irrelevant. If they had shot unarmed Iraqi civilians, as you suggested they could have done, they would have been guilty of murder. There is no way the soldiers would have been permitted under their ROE to shoot any unarmed civilians, no matter what they were doing.

The very fact that the soldiers destroyed the wood when they drove over it still deprives the owner of his wood. How have they helped the situation at all.

It is true this could have been taken out of context. But the core of the matter remains - The car was crushed because the owner was looting wood, the soldiers destroyed that wood and should be subject to the same penalties. Clear, unambiguous statements were made in the clip which show this is what happened. The punishment does not fit the crime.
2006-09-10 14:44:49
arabeater
Do you have any idea how fooking busy I am?
+49|6721|Colorado Springs, CO
I am in the US military and I can honestly tell you that what is being depicted in that video is an extreme minority of what the US does in Iraq. For every incident such as this we build hundreds of schools and new houses. You never hear anything positive about what we do there. I have been on 3 tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan and I have never seen of heard of any such incidents like this. I have talked to alot of Afghans and Iraqis and they all tell me the same thing, they want us there until they feel safe.
2006-09-10 14:49:09
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6798|Argentina

arabeater wrote:

I am in the US military and I can honestly tell you that what is being depicted in that video is an extreme minority of what the US does in Iraq. For every incident such as this we build hundreds of schools and new houses. You never hear anything positive about what we do there. I have been on 3 tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan and I have never seen of heard of any such incidents like this. I have talked to alot of Afghans and Iraqis and they all tell me the same thing, they want us there until they feel safe.
That's why these three assholes deserve to be out of the army.  Here, nobody is judging the US army actions, we are judging the actions of three dicks who thought they were Clint Eastwood.  For people like you and your m8s in the army who did right, you should ask a court martial for them, because they give all of you an unjustified bad reputation.
2006-09-10 14:50:20
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6622|SE London

arabeater wrote:

I am in the US military and I can honestly tell you that what is being depicted in that video is an extreme minority of what the US does in Iraq. For every incident such as this we build hundreds of schools and new houses. You never hear anything positive about what we do there. I have been on 3 tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan and I have never seen of heard of any such incidents like this. I have talked to alot of Afghans and Iraqis and they all tell me the same thing, they want us there until they feel safe.
I'm sure that is true.

Can you just clear up for Fancy_Pollux that this sort of behaviour is not permitted and that the soldiers responsible were in the wrong.

It is always minorities commiting acts like these. What astonishes me is the number of people who will defend such actions. For the most part I'm sure US forces over there do a pretty decent job of peacekeeping in a stressfull situation. There are though some idiots who give the rest a bad name.
2006-09-10 14:54:30
arabeater
Do you have any idea how fooking busy I am?
+49|6721|Colorado Springs, CO

sergeriver wrote:

arabeater wrote:

I am in the US military and I can honestly tell you that what is being depicted in that video is an extreme minority of what the US does in Iraq. For every incident such as this we build hundreds of schools and new houses. You never hear anything positive about what we do there. I have been on 3 tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan and I have never seen of heard of any such incidents like this. I have talked to alot of Afghans and Iraqis and they all tell me the same thing, they want us there until they feel safe.
That's why these three assholes deserve to be out of the army.  Here, nobody is judging the US army actions, we are judging the actions of three dicks who thought they were Clint Eastwood.  For people like you and your m8s in the army who did right, you should ask a court martial for them, because they give all of you an unjustified bad reputation.
I agree if they did commit a crime that they should be punished under the UCMJ, but from what I can tell from these forums alot of people do say alot of anti-US things. Not just against the military. I have seen the Iraqi police and National Guard do alot worse things to their own people.
2006-09-10 14:57:27
arabeater
Do you have any idea how fooking busy I am?
+49|6721|Colorado Springs, CO

Bertster7 wrote:

arabeater wrote:

I am in the US military and I can honestly tell you that what is being depicted in that video is an extreme minority of what the US does in Iraq. For every incident such as this we build hundreds of schools and new houses. You never hear anything positive about what we do there. I have been on 3 tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan and I have never seen of heard of any such incidents like this. I have talked to alot of Afghans and Iraqis and they all tell me the same thing, they want us there until they feel safe.
I'm sure that is true.

Can you just clear up for Fancy_Pollux that this sort of behaviour is not permitted and that the soldiers responsible were in the wrong.

It is always minorities commiting acts like these. What astonishes me is the number of people who will defend such actions. For the most part I'm sure US forces over there do a pretty decent job of peacekeeping in a stressfull situation. There are though some idiots who give the rest a bad name.
Those such actions are a violation under the Articles of the UCMJ (Uniformed Code Of Military Justice)
2006-09-10 15:08:17
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6798|Argentina

arabeater wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

arabeater wrote:

I am in the US military and I can honestly tell you that what is being depicted in that video is an extreme minority of what the US does in Iraq. For every incident such as this we build hundreds of schools and new houses. You never hear anything positive about what we do there. I have been on 3 tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan and I have never seen of heard of any such incidents like this. I have talked to alot of Afghans and Iraqis and they all tell me the same thing, they want us there until they feel safe.
That's why these three assholes deserve to be out of the army.  Here, nobody is judging the US army actions, we are judging the actions of three dicks who thought they were Clint Eastwood.  For people like you and your m8s in the army who did right, you should ask a court martial for them, because they give all of you an unjustified bad reputation.
I agree if they did commit a crime that they should be punished under the UCMJ, but from what I can tell from these forums alot of people do say alot of anti-US things. Not just against the military. I have seen the Iraqi police and National Guard do alot worse things to their own people.
I'm anti Bush not anti-US.  Big difference.  Bush is only a person, and I don't judge the entire country for his mistakes.  Regarding, the Iraqi soldiers, their worse actions don't make these guys unguilty.
2006-09-10 15:11:22
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6666|Home of the Escalade Herds

arabeater wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

arabeater wrote:

I am in the US military and I can honestly tell you that what is being depicted in that video is an extreme minority of what the US does in Iraq. For every incident such as this we build hundreds of schools and new houses. You never hear anything positive about what we do there. I have been on 3 tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan and I have never seen of heard of any such incidents like this. I have talked to alot of Afghans and Iraqis and they all tell me the same thing, they want us there until they feel safe.
I'm sure that is true.

Can you just clear up for Fancy_Pollux that this sort of behaviour is not permitted and that the soldiers responsible were in the wrong.

It is always minorities commiting acts like these. What astonishes me is the number of people who will defend such actions. For the most part I'm sure US forces over there do a pretty decent job of peacekeeping in a stressfull situation. There are though some idiots who give the rest a bad name.
Those such actions are a violation under the Articles of the UCMJ (Uniformed Code Of Military Justice)
Thanks for clearing this up.

And Fancy thought having those Iraqis shot would have been justified, what a warmongering tool.
2006-09-10 15:17:51
arabeater
Do you have any idea how fooking busy I am?
+49|6721|Colorado Springs, CO

sergeriver wrote:

arabeater wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


That's why these three assholes deserve to be out of the army.  Here, nobody is judging the US army actions, we are judging the actions of three dicks who thought they were Clint Eastwood.  For people like you and your m8s in the army who did right, you should ask a court martial for them, because they give all of you an unjustified bad reputation.
I agree if they did commit a crime that they should be punished under the UCMJ, but from what I can tell from these forums alot of people do say alot of anti-US things. Not just against the military. I have seen the Iraqi police and National Guard do alot worse things to their own people.
I'm anti Bush not anti-US.  Big difference.  Bush is only a person, and I don't judge the entire country for his mistakes.  Regarding, the Iraqi soldiers, their worse actions don't make these guys unguilty.
I cant say that i'm anti-Bush (he's sent me to college for free and given me pay raises the past 5 years). I'm not saying your anti-US but alot of people here are. Theyre not saying it directly but they dont have to, its kinda obvious. Not that I care since most of them arent even American.
2006-09-10 16:18:33
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6687

E1_ned wrote:

The Iraqis were caught looting, and were punished lightly    huh?????lightly???

if u have nothing except a car and a pocket full of sand.... don't u think a car is pretty prescious to you?
Considering that everywhere else looters are sent to prison for life, or simply shot on site, I would say they are getting off lightly.
2006-09-10 16:20:10
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6798|Argentina

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

E1_ned wrote:

The Iraqis were caught looting, and were punished lightly    huh?????lightly???

if u have nothing except a car and a pocket full of sand.... don't u think a car is pretty prescious to you?
Considering that everywhere else looters are sent to prison for life, or simply shot on site, I would say they are getting off lightly.
Where, in the third Reich?
2006-09-10 16:22:27
DavidianCox
...from the internet
+60|6698|Birmingham
ah man that is just awfull.
2006-09-10 16:33:19
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6878

sergeriver wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


I saw some Iraqi people on the floor doing nothing, not being a threat, and the tank smashing the car.  Where is the propaganda?  If there is propaganda here, it's the bad reputation the army gets for the actions of these three dumb asses.
How can you know what they were doing 1 minute before the camera started taping ?

Or what they were doing 1/2 hour before the tank showed up ?

Or what local citizens who pointed them out said they witnessed them doing ?

Further,  If you were a Tanker over there would you do that to an Innocent person who was minding their own business would you let a fellow soldier act  that way, On film no less ?
Don't be naive. Plus the guys didn't even look distressed or scared Looters are generally shot anywhere. Don't forget this part of the world were it was common to pull out girls fingernails if they had the audacity to paint them...before these guys showed up in their tank that is.

just keep your mind open, dont look for reasons to hate morn fear or fret, you will find enough on your own
I don't know what these Iraqi people did and I really don't care.  If they looted some fucking wood, ok, let's hang'em.  Cmon, you can't be serious in this.  Whatever those people did, you can't smashed their car with the tank.  Those soldiers are three assholes and that's a fact.  In a trial the proof shows three jerks smashing a car with a tank property of the US army, and they used it for their own amusement.  So, please think about the soldiers who do the right thing in your own army and don't defend these 3 dumb soldiers who did bad.
did you really say " Whatever those people did, you can't smashed their car with the tank. " did you really say that. Do you have any idea at all what thses people are capable of ?
2006-09-10 16:35:34
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6622|SE London

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

E1_ned wrote:

The Iraqis were caught looting, and were punished lightly    huh?????lightly???

if u have nothing except a car and a pocket full of sand.... don't u think a car is pretty prescious to you?
Considering that everywhere else looters are sent to prison for life, or simply shot on site, I would say they are getting off lightly.
You are insane. How can you persist with this nonsense.

Sure this video clip doesn't show much and taking a dimmer view of the US army in general because of it would just be stereotyping. But this is not what you've picked up on.

You keep insisting that the course of action they took was the right one, which it clearly wasn't.

arabeater wrote:

such actions are a violation under the Articles of the UCMJ (Uniformed Code Of Military Justice)
2006-09-10 17:07:27
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6687
When your minds mature and your education progresses, I'm sure most of you will come back here and laugh at your youthful foolishness. If I were to do a scientific study on the effects of propaganda, I'd use this thread as my primary source.
2006-09-10 17:13:23
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6590|Southeastern USA
damn i really wish I could see it now
2006-09-10 17:15:04
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6798|Argentina

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

When your minds mature and your education progresses, I'm sure most of you will come back here and laugh at your youthful foolishness. If I were to do a scientific study on the effects of propaganda, I'd use this thread as my primary source.
Coming from you it's a compliment.
2006-09-10 17:18:52
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6798|Argentina

Horseman 77 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:


How can you know what they were doing 1 minute before the camera started taping ?

Or what they were doing 1/2 hour before the tank showed up ?

Or what local citizens who pointed them out said they witnessed them doing ?

Further,  If you were a Tanker over there would you do that to an Innocent person who was minding their own business would you let a fellow soldier act  that way, On film no less ?
Don't be naive. Plus the guys didn't even look distressed or scared Looters are generally shot anywhere. Don't forget this part of the world were it was common to pull out girls fingernails if they had the audacity to paint them...before these guys showed up in their tank that is.

just keep your mind open, dont look for reasons to hate morn fear or fret, you will find enough on your own
I don't know what these Iraqi people did and I really don't care.  If they looted some fucking wood, ok, let's hang'em.  Cmon, you can't be serious in this.  Whatever those people did, you can't smashed their car with the tank.  Those soldiers are three assholes and that's a fact.  In a trial the proof shows three jerks smashing a car with a tank property of the US army, and they used it for their own amusement.  So, please think about the soldiers who do the right thing in your own army and don't defend these 3 dumb soldiers who did bad.
did you really say " Whatever those people did, you can't smashed their car with the tank. " did you really say that. Do you have any idea at all what thses people are capable of ?
Yes, I fuckn said so.  What is the problem with that sentence?  Don't you understand it?   Do you have an idea at all what those people are capable of?  I don't but I suppose they are no threat at all.
What is clear in this video is that the soldiers smashed a car with a tank, all other situation is pure speculation.
2006-09-10 17:22:38
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6687

sergeriver wrote:

Yes, I fuckn said so.  What is the problem with that sentence?  Don't you understand it?   Do you have an idea at all what those people are capable of?  I don't but I suppose they are no threat at all.
What is clear in this video is that the soldiers smashed a car with a tank, all other situation is pure speculation.
No need to be so angsty. Stay cool, calm, and collected, and we can continue a civilized debate. You're letting your emotions skew your logic, and, as a result, the propaganda is getting the best of you.
2006-09-10 17:26:46
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6798|Argentina

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Yes, I fuckn said so.  What is the problem with that sentence?  Don't you understand it?   Do you have an idea at all what those people are capable of?  I don't but I suppose they are no threat at all.
What is clear in this video is that the soldiers smashed a car with a tank, all other situation is pure speculation.
No need to be so angsty. Stay cool, calm, and collected, and we can continue a civilized debate. You're letting your emotions skew your logic, and, as a result, the propaganda is getting the best of you.
I ain't playing your game.  Say what you want.  You my friend are so wrong in so many things.  You are judging us here, you ask us to be mature enough, when you knocked your girlfriend for a fucking pokemon game the same day her cat passed away?  If that story is true, you don't seem the right guy to point us with your finger.

 

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