I thank you for your intelligent response unlike some of the others I have received (and given...lol). Just for the record though my bit that you quoted about Americans dying for their freedom was not a shot at Europeans by any means at all. It was a response to someone who said that I was an idiot for being in the Marines and contributing towards war. I am a vet and I felt it was disrespectful. Thats all.Bertster7 wrote:
Good for you. If only more Americans would adopt that attitude, rather than the traditional - the president is always right and anyone who says otherwise is an unpatriotic commie terrorist.deeznutz1245 wrote:
I can assure you I was not in that region under the Bush administration. I dont like him any more than you do ( less prob) but I hate terrorists and I want them all dead. Simple.If the government were absolutely positive they were members of Al Qaeda I would have no problem with these detention camps. They are not, at least not in the traditional sense. There needs to be some form of trial for these terror suspects, perhaps not as open as normal trials due to the sensitive nature of the offences. The right to fair trial is a vital part of legal systems across the world, the 'innocent until proven guilty' applies to terrorists just as much as anyone else. If you can't prove they are terrorists, to any degree, then they should be presumed innocent and not subjected to the ordeals they face in these camps. If they're found guilty, do what you want with them. Because it is then, and only then, that you can truely call them terrorists.deeznutz1245 wrote:
We are not detaining innocent civilians. We are detaining members of al queda.Fair enough. But give them a trial first - innocent people don't deserve that sort of shit. I don't think the US should have gone into Iraq either, the situation there was self contained and whilst unpleasant, was nothing like the terrorist breeding ground it is today. I do support the US over Afghanistan, can't have foreign governments saying 'Yeah, we've got terrorists who attacked you here and there's nothing you can do about it' (which was really quite a stupid thing to say to the US), that just takes the piss. Afghanistan was perfectly justified.deeznutz1245 wrote:
Do I think we should be in Iraq? Hell no. Never said we should but what I do support is rounding up of every single god damned terrorist piece of waste that wishes us harm and getting rid of them.You don't think that applies to the Europeans who have done a lot more dying for their freedom than Americans have over the years. Virtually every country is founded on the same doctorine. Other people just tend to go on about it less.deeznutz1245 wrote:
America was founded on the belief that our citizens are prepared to die for their freedom.That's not entirely true. The US didn't do that much in the war in Europe. It was the Russians who really saved the day. The D-Day landings were the biggest part the US played in the war in Europe and until that point they had acted like complete pussies about the whole thing. The only really important part the US played was in getting troops across into Normandy, without them it would have been a much more difficult battle - but still a winable one. I'm sick of Americans saying 'we saved your asses in WWII', because it really isn't true, the US helped out, quite a lot, but were ultimately non-essential. Had Hitler stuck to his non-aggression pact with Stalin the west would really have been fucked - and you might well have been talking Russian/German by now. If you look up the battles of WWII, you will see the US played a part in only a very few of them. I cannot recall any campaigns fought by the US alone in Europe in WWII. They were all fought by the British and the US, or by the British and the Canadians, or by the Russians. The French and Polish helped out too. The major role of the US in Europe was for the D-Day landings. That's it. I know their role has been massively overplayed in numerous US films, but that's not what quite happened, they present a very biased view.deeznutz1245 wrote:
France on the other hand would be speaking German right now if it were not for us American "idiots" who liberated your cowardly asses on more than one occasion this century.
The US did do the bulk of the work in the Pacific though - I'll certainly give them that.
I do agree with you on quite a few points. I just don't particularly like the way you have put them across. You seem to think Afghanistan was a good idea, I agree. You think Iraq was a bad idea, I agree. You think detaining terrorists in these CIA detention camps is a good idea, I don't disagree - but we do differ in our definition of what counts as a terrorist for purposes of detaining them and I believe some form of trial is the only way to do this.
Malloy must go