BF2S Forums Fixing the immagration "problem"

The top economies in the world take between 30 and 40% of your incomes.  Then, that amount of money is used to cover all basic needs for people, as health, education and security.  The benefits in these countries are labor weeks of 35-40 hours top, and a lot of time for amusement.  These countries has no inflation, and the living standards are two high.  These countries are in the north EU.  I don't see how a high income tax is bad.

Here you can see how countries like Austria, Italy, France, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, Ireland, Norway, and others top economies cut you up to 59% in the case of Denmark, for individual income taxes.
The corporate income tax is around 30% everywhere.

http://www.worldwide-tax.com/

cpt.fass4 wrote:

As of right now there are some contries that don't have an income tax and they are surviving I will find info on this at a later time. Inflation is something I haven't thought about but I will put it into a perspective I know a bit about. Property tax...

I live in New Jersey which has one of the highest property taxes in the country. Right across the river is New York which is one of the most expensive places in this country to live. But there property tax is very inexpensive, because they have a transfer tax. Every time you refi or purchase a home there is a 2% transfer tax, but because of this they only pay 1500(cause I have a purchase for 640000) In New Jersey if you own a 640,000 home your taxes ever year is around 9,000.

Man, I need to move back to Jersey. For my $189K house in Texas, I paid $5400 in property taxes last year!!!

wow cpt.fass4 seems really smart..

pug I'm not sure of what you're saying there?  They are not local workers so they are not eligable for minimum wage. And if we stop taxing people and start taxing the good our wages will go up... I will say it again Illegal immagrants in this country do not work for Mimimume wage they can get paid more then legal residents and cost the company less money.. You get payed 8 dollars an hour with our current tax system it cost a company around 12 dollars total. So they will hire an illegal at 10 and save 2 dollars an hour.. That's what no one seems to understand, if you were in high school and someone offered you 10 an hour to clean shit out of a toilet you would have done it. Instead you got offered 6 taxed dollars to do it witch equiled 4.50 an hour, at which point it doesn't really make sense

I think US government should give illegal workers two options:
1-Go back to your country.
2-Stay and work in US but pay taxes like everyone else.
You can't allow illegal work, it lowers all wages for all workers.  I think option 2 woul be taken by every illegal worker rather than 1.
And they should of course be very hard on the companies hiring illegal workers, so if you have a company you will pay all the taxes that must be payed before going to jail.

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-09-06 06:49:33)

cpt.fass1 wrote:

But then you have an enforcement problem. It will take money, time and man power to inforce

We have a current enforcement problem - illegal immigrants not paying taxes, and companies enabling them to do so.

Shifting where the tax is collected is not the answer.  Shifting the problem from taxpayer enforcement to border patrol enforcement is not the answer either.

I think the answer lies in throwing people in jail who hire them.  Make it a real excessive penalty to make it stop.  That is, of course, you believe its worth "destroying" cheap labor and making border states uncompetitive in the marketplace.

But is this a problem worth that much backlash?  Probably not.

Unless someone has a magic bullet I don't think its resolvable - politicians will never "prevent" illegal immigration - the border state business lobby is too strong.

Minger test,this is how it works.
Security guards eg wait at the airports check ins,if the immigrate looks sexy say 7 outta 10 and above their allowed into the country,no men no minger women,simple plan that'll help lads pull n shag beautiful women that they wouldn't normally have a chance with,winners all round?.

kilgoretrout wrote:

chittydog wrote:

How about fixing the spelling problem first?

What your solution does here is encourage people NOT to spend money, which is very bad for the economy.

not really.  people will have more money to spend if there are no income taxes.  a flat sales tax also has the added benifit of taxing people that make their money on the black market.  it wouldn't tax crack deals, but crack dealers buy stuff.

Black Market FTW! Think of all the new jobs created!

Pug wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

I'm a little confused with "border state" that you mean. I understand that you are talking about the states that borders other's, but could you break it down for me?

Well it's not really cheap labor, if the whole country is paying additional money for corporations to save a few dollars in saleries and taxes. See also with the higher product tax and no income tax(because that's my idea) you'd increase use and productivity pushing incomes higher..

Border states - Texas thru Cali (not alphabetical).

You missed the point.
Illegals pay tax = $2 increase in product cost.
Consumers pay sales tax = $2 increase in product cost.
The tax is collected either way.

Another way to look at it:
The US needs $10 Trillion for budget.  Eliminating income tax does not eliminate the need to collect $10 Trillion.

Here's the definitive reason why this will fail:
You're talking about making a 5% sales tax rate now 30-40% across the board.  In truth, it would be higher then a direct 25-35% income tax rate adder, because it would reduce the amount of revenue collected - the tax laws are more strick than a flat adder. 

Is this fair to the poor?  Great for rich people...bad for poor.  Essentially the minimum wage would have to be raised so the poor can keep up with this inflation.  So, increasing the minimum wage = an increase in illegal immigration.  The exact opposite of what you're proposing.

Different words, that's kinda what I explained before.

illegal immigration would not get mimimume wage, there would be no reason to hire them, they would be forced to make less then mimimum wage and not be able to survive hense cutting it off at the head(do you understand what I'm saying??). The only real reason hiring illegals make's sense is you can phyiscally pay them more per hour and it's cheaper then a citizen. If we took away the Income tax the use for cheap labor would go away..

.. Hmmmm good point, still don't understand the "Unless someone has a magic bullet I don't think its resolvable - politicians will never "prevent" illegal immigration - the border state business lobby is too strong." that part of it.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

illegal immigration would not get mimimume wage, there would be no reason to hire them, they would be forced to make less then mimimum wage and not be able to survive hense cutting it off at the head(do you understand what I'm saying??). The only real reason hiring illegals make's sense is you can phyiscally pay them more per hour and it's cheaper then a citizen. If we took away the Income tax the use for cheap labor would go away..

.. Hmmmm good point, still don't understand the "Unless someone has a magic bullet I don't think its resolvable - politicians will never "prevent" illegal immigration - the border state business lobby is too strong." that part of it.

Thanks for taking the time by the way - this has been interesting...

Increasing the minimum wage would mean illegals could earn MORE money than they are now.  I did not say they would be getting paid the minimum wage - they are operating outside the law and will get paid whatever they get paid.

Companies will pay illegals below minimum wage whenever possible.  If they pay more, and are unable to find someone to do some terrible job for a slightly higher pay, then they hire an illegal.  If you were to push up the minimum wage, it increases the wage base for the US.  If illegals are feeding on the bottom of the income scale, they can now earn more because the minimum wage has now increased = more immigration

Why take my word for it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage

See "Cost and benefits - Supporters of minimum wage" the last bullet point
"Discourages illegal immigration. A minimum wage increases the desirability of low-wage jobs, which allows those positions to be filled by legal citizens instead of illegal immigrants, thus discouraging illegal immigration. Note that it is also argued that a minimum wage encourages illegal immigration (see below)."
This in relation to setting a low minimum wage.


See "Cost and benefits - Opponents of minimum wage" in the middle:
"Encourages more illegal immigrants from poorer places to enter the country because the pay differential between low-skill jobs in the two countries rises. This problem is particularly pronounced in the US, because the US-Mexico border is the longest developed/developing border in the world and is not well guarded."
This in relation to setting a higher minimum wage.

Magic bullet comment:
The pro-business lobby will not permit the government to take away their low wage workers.
The public will not stand for increasing taxes to support non-US citizens.
No politician in their right mind would ever get reelected without compromise.
Increase sales tax = pro-business
Enforce border/laws = pro-individual