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2020-04-17 07:17:24
uziq
Member
+496|3694
once again it comes down to jay having the intellectual apparatus of a small mammal.

he got it, by gum he didn't know what it was, gorr blimey it was uncomfortable, but it passed. like the shadow of a cloud over a grazing cow.

i guess it's just up to fate whether you die or not, shrug. those who die were going to die anyway. at least i think that's how it works.

what we absolutely shouldn't be doing is letting these unelected hospital staff determine our right to spread disease and die!
2020-04-17 07:19:44
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

uziq wrote:

l m AO

haahahah

jay has 'a lot of doctor friends' but simultaneously thinks that hospitals are a 'trade' trying to milk the most out of society. a cabal! a guild! a racket!

good luck when you next get sick, jackie boy!
They are, uzi. The medical profession actively tries to limit the number of slots in medical schools throughout the country. They shade it by saying they need to limit it to only the best and brightest, and any expansion will lead to reduced quality. Reality is that there are many, many more qualified people than slots and the slots are limited only to keep the supply of doctors low so the demand, and thus wages, stay high. We could easily flood the country with doctors making $75k and patient care wouldn't suffer. Instead, we have millions of specialists making $500k/yr and working crazy hours, leading to all sorts of malpractice. We have so few domestically trained doctors that we have to import them from India and Pakistan and other countries.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-04-17 07:20:22
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:


And you'll see on the y-axis "Healthcare system capacity"

What do you think happens when the healthcare system capacity is exceeded?

If you install an HVAC system with a rated capacity, then the people who own the building put in too many lights exceeding the capacity of the HVAC system, what happens?

Is it

a) Nothing
b) The building overheats
c) Potato
Its c) Potato
Well done Jay

Just to recap, you don't know what a cantilever is, you don't know what a parabola is and you can't read and follow a simple question

You don't sound like a competent engineer to me.
You're a turd.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-04-17 07:20:37
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6348|eXtreme to the maX
You consistently expose yourself as someone who knows exactly fuck all about anything, including your supposed area of expertise.
If anyone ever finds out I think you'll be the one facing malpractice suits.

Good luck.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-04-17 07:23:29)

Fuck Israel
2020-04-17 07:21:07
uziq
Member
+496|3694
so because your health system only wants the best doctors possible, and has selective schooling.

ERGO

in a pandemic situation hospital staff are going to cry wolf in order to further their - what? overtime earnings?

master of logic jay! wow i am impressed.
2020-04-17 07:27:20
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

You consistently expose yourself as someone who knows exactly fuck all about anything, including your supposed area of expertise.
If anyone ever finds out I think you'll be the one facing malpractice suits.

Good luck.
I'm very fucking good at my job, but thanks.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-04-17 07:31:41
uziq
Member
+496|3694
jay you are one of those people with a very low-watt intelligence who mistakes the dim basement light of his perceptions for blazing cynicism. the internet is full of right-wing 'cynics' like you who mistake their lazy and fatuous, if not outright conspiratorial, way of thinking with '3d chess' intelligence.

i'm sorry but the reasoning behind levelling the curve makes perfect sense, and will rightfully save a lot of lives and human misery.

seeing as throughout this thread you've successively misunderstood or wilfully ignored what a virus is, how the human immune system works, the topic of exponential growth, the severity of the pandemic, and now the wisdom of medical professionals, i think we can all safely conclude using the arcana of 'logic' that you are a dumfuk. not even contracting the disease yourself led to any humility or effort at deeper understanding. born stupid.
2020-04-17 07:50:35
Larssen
Member
+99|2130

Jay wrote:

Larssen wrote:

He's going through serious cognitive dissonance now, any moment reason is about to pop in his head he has to supress it someway. We may see him link vaccines and autism before long.
What cognitive dissonance? That I don't believe in effective government? Is what my government is doing to slow the spread of the virus? Absolutely, without a doubt it is. But it's not stopping it. Whether you rip a bandaid off quickly or slowly, it's the same amount of pain, we're just talking about disbursement time. I think, if given the choice between long, drawn out suffering, or something quicker, most people will opt for quicker.

Right now, what we're doing is not going to change the ultimate outcome, it's just dragging it out over a longer period of time. And frankly, the more time we let this thing go the more chance it mutates and people then have to deal with reinfections, restarting the cycle all over again.
The cognitive dissonance that makes it so that you have issues reconciling the seriousness of this pandemic and the need for government action. You twist and turn arguments that underscore either that the pandemic is a load of BS and nothing to fear or that the government won't be able to do anything anyway. Your ideological convictions are causing you to deny reality. No amount of individualism and small government is going to help you fight off a pandemic Jay. This fact seems to short-circuit your brain into science denialism and defeatist hopelessness.
2020-04-17 07:52:01
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

uziq wrote:

so because your health system only wants the best doctors possible, and has selective schooling.

ERGO

in a pandemic situation hospital staff are going to cry wolf in order to further their - what? overtime earnings?

master of logic jay! wow i am impressed.
Nah, no overtime. What they've done is systematically reduce the number of hospital beds over many decades.

Our hospital systems are fucked, and it's not for the usual propaganda reasons that pro-NHS people like to tout.

There's been a concerted effort by my state government over the past three decades to lower the number of state-owned hospitals because they were money losers on the budget. NYC hospitals even outside of a pandemic are always on the verge of being overwhelmed just because there are so few beds and so many people. They never asked the private hospitals to step up and provide overflow capacity because they are by far the biggest political donors and excess beds are money losers to maintain. Unless a bed is full and a hospital is working at full capacity at all times, it is inefficient. The system is not designed to handle any shock.

And right now, I'm being told I can't go to work because my state government dropped the ball and didn't build in any excess capacity for an event like this. If we all have to stay in our homes to keep the hospitals from overflowing, then we're all going to be home for a very, very long time. Fuck that, and fuck my government.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-04-17 07:52:56
uziq
Member
+496|3694
remember, the death rate is way way lower than reported. yuuuge over-estimation! america is just testing way better than the rest of the world. in fact maybe everyone has already caught it already and this little hysterical liberal stunt is over and done with already. the death rate in that case must be infinitesimal!

but also everyone who ends up in hospital with this disease is toast! it's lethal! no treatment works! you're a goner! we should just do nothing, it mutates so fast! vaccines are hopeless! it's time to reconcile ourselves with mass death!
2020-04-17 07:54:16
uziq
Member
+496|3694

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

so because your health system only wants the best doctors possible, and has selective schooling.

ERGO

in a pandemic situation hospital staff are going to cry wolf in order to further their - what? overtime earnings?

master of logic jay! wow i am impressed.
Nah, no overtime. What they've done is systematically reduce the number of hospital beds over many decades.

Our hospital systems are fucked, and it's not for the usual propaganda reasons that pro-NHS people like to tout.

There's been a concerted effort by my state government over the past three decades to lower the number of state-owned hospitals because they were money losers on the budget. NYC hospitals even outside of a pandemic are always on the verge of being overwhelmed just because there are so few beds and so many people. They never asked the private hospitals to step up and provide overflow capacity because they are by far the biggest political donors and excess beds are money losers to maintain. Unless a bed is full and a hospital is working at full capacity at all times, it is inefficient. The system is not designed to handle any shock.

And right now, I'm being told I can't go to work because my state government dropped the ball and didn't build in any excess capacity for an event like this. If we all have to stay in our homes to keep the hospitals from overflowing, then we're all going to be home for a very, very long time. Fuck that, and fuck my government.
once again this just sounds like big courageous war-hero jay is upset that he has to work from home and deal with his kids for a period.

Q_Q
2020-04-17 07:59:49
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

Larssen wrote:

Jay wrote:

Larssen wrote:

He's going through serious cognitive dissonance now, any moment reason is about to pop in his head he has to supress it someway. We may see him link vaccines and autism before long.
What cognitive dissonance? That I don't believe in effective government? Is what my government is doing to slow the spread of the virus? Absolutely, without a doubt it is. But it's not stopping it. Whether you rip a bandaid off quickly or slowly, it's the same amount of pain, we're just talking about disbursement time. I think, if given the choice between long, drawn out suffering, or something quicker, most people will opt for quicker.

Right now, what we're doing is not going to change the ultimate outcome, it's just dragging it out over a longer period of time. And frankly, the more time we let this thing go the more chance it mutates and people then have to deal with reinfections, restarting the cycle all over again.
The cognitive dissonance that makes it so that you have issues reconciling the seriousness of this pandemic and the need for government action. You twist and turn arguments that underscore either that the pandemic is a load of BS and nothing to fear or that the government won't be able to do anything anyway. Your ideological convictions are causing you to deny reality. No amount of individualism and small government is going to help you fight off a pandemic Jay. This fact seems to short-circuit your brain into science denialism and defeatist hopelessness.
There's no cognitive dissonance. It's called nihilism. I have no faith in the government and I think the response to the pandemic has been a complete farce. I think this is an issue of my government's own making and they're fucking over millions of people right now because they don't have the capacity to deal with something like this with logic and reason. All any of them are doing is acting like politicians and gauging public opinion polls on what to do next. None of them are offering any real leadership. Real leadership requires making tough decisions, not taking the easy, popular path at every turn.

What they should be doing is accepting the fact that people are going to get this and start releasing people from quarantine. Go by Social Security # for all I care. Start with the 0s. Let the people who have already recovered return to work. Start building up herd immunity. Hiding in our homes isn't going to eradicate this disease.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-04-17 08:09:36
uziq
Member
+496|3694
citing nihilism in the face of a pandemic, jay, really? that's a fashionable buzzword for moody teenagers reading nietzsche for the first time. grow up. this is an adult problem requiring adult, responsible decisions.

https://i.imgur.com/yO2K5Ps.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7hboNFQ.jpg
2020-04-17 08:09:58
Larssen
Member
+99|2130
So we've stabilised on 'government cannot be the answer! never!'.

How has it been a farce? They're succesfully reducing case growth and deaths, pressure on the healthcare system, funeral services, etc. This is already measurable fact.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-04-17 08:10:56)

2020-04-17 08:13:08
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

Larssen wrote:

So we've stabilised on 'government cannot be the action! never!'.

How has it been a farce? They're succesfully reducing case growth and deaths, pressure on the healthcare system, funeral services, etc. This is already measurable fact.
And extending the length of the outbreak, and extending the length of the economic devastation as well. Ok, so we reduced the number of cases, for now. What happens when they give the release order next month? Another spike? And then back into quarantine? When all these shutdowns started I asked the question: by what criteria do these measures end? I still have read nothing. There's no discernible plan. All I see are tightening restrictions with no end in sight.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-04-17 08:16:33
uziq
Member
+496|3694
extensive contact tracing and testing is the end by which quarantine measures should slacken. it's not like dozens of other countries in the world haven't already successfully pursued this strategy, jay.

Last edited by uziq (2020-04-17 08:16:42)

2020-04-17 08:17:05
Larssen
Member
+99|2130
The length of the outbreak is not extended by the quarantine dude. It would ravage the entire planet for a number of years before dying down. Reference: pandemics of the past.

The plan is quite clearly to limit the amount of death and ICU care until a reliable treatment, countermeasure and/or vaccine is made. That's a clear goal.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-04-17 08:17:25)

2020-04-17 08:17:19
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

uziq wrote:

extensive contact tracing and testing is the end by which quarantine measures should slacken. it's not like dozens of other countries in the world haven't already successfully pursued this strategy, jay.
Oh yeah? In a country with millions of cases you want to do contact tracing? You're an imbecile.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-04-17 08:18:31
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

Larssen wrote:

The length of the outbreak is not extended by the quarantine dude. It would ravage the entire planet for a number of years before dying down. Reference: pandemics of the past.

The plan is quite clearly to limit the amount of death and ICU care until a reliable treatment, countermeasure and/or vaccine is made. That's a clear goal.
Oh fucking christ, you can't read a graph either?
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/03/22/science/11SCI-VIRUS-CURVE1/11SCI-VIRUS-TRACKER1-videoSixteenByNineJumbo1600.jpg

Flattening the curve drops the spike but it extends the overall timeline for infections.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-04-17 08:30:12
uziq
Member
+496|3694
jay that is the first wave. there will be second waves. third waves. it will repeat until a vaccine. the endgame is a vaccine. the point of social distancing and quarantine is to mitigate deaths until a vaccine arrives.
2020-04-17 08:31:40
uziq
Member
+496|3694

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

extensive contact tracing and testing is the end by which quarantine measures should slacken. it's not like dozens of other countries in the world haven't already successfully pursued this strategy, jay.
Oh yeah? In a country with millions of cases you want to do contact tracing? You're an imbecile.
au contraire, you and the leader that you personally elected are imbeciles. you let it get to millions of cases before even according it any importance. 'it'll go away', 'it's just flu'. do you not see the connection between the thinking you and YOUR man have espoused and this clusterfuck you find yourself in now?

you're like a dog that shits on a patio and then yelps when he rolls in it hours later, not remembering its his doo-doo.
2020-04-17 08:51:46
Larssen
Member
+99|2130
Quoting a graph with no values that was made for illustrative purposes, fuck sakes man.

You can clearly see what the criteria are if you pay attention to what's happening around the globe.

First goal: returning ICU admission levels to normal and get a good grasp on virus spread and its location.
Then: phased return to normal life.
  • x, y, businesses opening first
  • z businesses opening later
  • Under strict social distancing/work from home guidelines
  • Perhaps aided by mandatory face masks
  • Perhaps aided by contact tracing apps like in S-Korea
  • All the while actively monitoring cases to act & isolate in time and to prevent a quick resurgence of the virus
  • Maintaining social distancing rules until reliable treatment, control measures and/or a vaccine is found'
  • Re-implementing phased lockdown measures if necessary.



nothing here is hard to grasp.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-04-17 08:54:17)

2020-04-17 08:55:53
uziq
Member
+496|3694
jay both simultaneously ignores and dismisses experts and then deplores the government when they don't act quick enough on expert advice.

in the space of a few posts, he says both 'i'm a nihilist', 'no government is best government', and then expresses anger at the government for federally mishandling a crisis?

???

you just can't win with these people. 'no gubmint!' interference as long as the going is good. 'wahhh where was the government?!?' when the going gets tough.

Quoting a graph with no values that was made for illustrative purposes, fuck sakes man.
hahahaha. well, it might just be an optical illusion, but you can clearly see that the blue part is bigger than the red part! the strategy is doomed!

https://images.csmonitor.com/csm/2012/09/0928-Israel-Netanyahu-simple-bomb-graphic.jpg?alias=standard_900x600

Last edited by uziq (2020-04-17 08:59:58)

2020-04-17 09:01:56
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

Larssen wrote:

Quoting a graph with no values that was made for illustrative purposes, fuck sakes man.

You can clearly see what the criteria are if you pay attention to what's happening around the globe.

First goal: returning ICU admission levels to normal and get a good grasp on virus spread and its location.
Then: phased return to normal life.
  • x, y, businesses opening first
  • z businesses opening later
  • Under strict social distancing/work from home guidelines
  • Perhaps aided by mandatory face masks
  • Perhaps aided by contact tracing apps like in S-Korea
  • All the while actively monitoring cases to act & isolate in time and to prevent a quick resurgence of the virus
  • Maintaining social distancing rules until reliable treatment, control measures and/or a vaccine is found'
  • Re-implementing phased lockdown measures if necessary.



nothing here is hard to grasp.
There is no real plan. There are no triggering criteria where everyone is released. You're all willing to hunker down and hide for some indeterminate amount of time until there's a vaccine. You're grasping onto that one thing like a religious object. The grail! The grail! The vaccine!

The world can't wait the 18 months it will take to work up a vaccine. Better start making alternative plans before people start ignoring officials and start going about their business on their own again. It's already starting.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2020-04-17 09:03:11
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5600|London, England

uziq wrote:

jay both simultaneously ignores and dismisses experts and then deplores the government when they don't act quick enough on expert advice.

in the space of a few posts, he says both 'i'm a nihilist', 'no government is best government', and then expresses anger at the government for federally mishandling a crisis?

???

you just can't win with these people. 'no gubmint!' interference as long as the going is good. 'wahhh where was the government?!?' when the going gets tough.

Quoting a graph with no values that was made for illustrative purposes, fuck sakes man.
hahahaha. well, it might just be an optical illusion, but you can clearly see that the blue part is bigger than the red part! the strategy is doomed!

https://images.csmonitor.com/csm/2012/09/0928-Israel-Netanyahu-simple-bomb-graphic.jpg?alias=standard_900x600
https://i.redd.it/rdtdrbl7lhg11.jpg
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

 

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