unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

I'm so exhausted debating it with people I know.

"Well we gotta do something because we can't stay shut down like this."
"What happens when it spikes then?"
"I don't know, but we got to do something because we can't stay shut down like this."
"What effect will an upsurge in new cases have on market confidence?"
"I don't know, but we got to do something because we can't stay shut down like this."
"What about brain drain as people from key positions become infected and hospitalized?"
"I don't know, but we got to do something because we can't stay shut down like this."

Usually ends with them: "I don't know what to tell you, but we can't go on like this."

The blind spot never ceases to amaze.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690
Do you ever suggest we just create a temporary UBI?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Trump doesn't have the power, the state governors do.
Even so he's set up a committee of the brightest sparks.

https://www.mediaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/download-1.jpeg
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690
He has the authority to do it. The question is what happens after he gives the order.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690
He practiced what he preached — then he died of coronavirus.

An evangelical pastor died of COVID-19 just weeks after proudly showing off how packed his Virginia church was — and vowing to keep preaching “unless I’m in jail or the hospital.”
https://dnyuz.com/2020/04/13/virginia-p … ronavirus/
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Do you ever suggest we just create a temporary UBI?
Heaven forbid.

SuperJail Warden wrote:

He practiced what he preached — then he died of coronavirus.

An evangelical pastor died of COVID-19 just weeks after proudly showing off how packed his Virginia church was — and vowing to keep preaching “unless I’m in jail or the hospital.”
https://dnyuz.com/2020/04/13/virginia-p … ronavirus/
I expect a lot of smugness about reopening, before it's safe to do so, from people who will catch it, spread it to their customers, and to their families back home. And still not admit that maybe it was a bit hasty.

But at least "the economy will be booming."
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Jay's favourite website says 'No he can't'
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/ … to-reopen/
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+634|3690
This is what will happen step by step:

1. Trump will order people to go back to work.

2. The people who are dumb enough to trust him will go back to work and force other too.

3. The virus will spike.

4. Trump will blame the states for not being prepared to reopen.

5. Trump will say he never said for people to go back to work.

You can't tell me that that isn't how things would go.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6742|PNW

afaik he's getting away with exerting pressure on states in other ways. "Better be nice to me" doctrine.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

This is what will happen step by step:

1. Trump will order people to go back to work. - "All the experts are saying its safe to go back to work"

2. The people who are dumb enough to trust him will go back to work and force other too.

3. The virus will spike. - "Viruses don't spike, how would they know how? This suggests a malign intelligence at work"

4. Trump will blame the states for not being prepared to reopen.

5. Trump will say he never said for people to go back to work. "The experts never told me to tell you to go back to work, and I've fired them just in case"

You can't tell me that that isn't how things would go.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Larssen
Member
+99|1858
As always though the whole thing is considered win or lose. Either everything's open or everything's closed. No mention of stimulating work from home, step by step lifting of industry restrictions - now there's a 'reopen the country' taskforce led by his daughter, and 10 dissenting governors.

The best part is that most health scientists predict a second wave of corona cases in autumn, around election time. I'm in no doubt Trump will refuse to reinstate restrictions once business has resumed. Not being able to lie his way out of this one or find a quick-fix must be enraging to the types who live for short term gratification.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-04-14 00:25:14)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
The smart thing to do would be to rank possible steps against benefit for the economy and risk to the community and decide accordingly.

So opening factories would probably be more beneficial and less risky than opening churches which contribute nothing.

But its all going to be determined by ideology so never mind.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Larssen
Member
+99|1858
Are factories closed? If so those should be easiest/earliest to open. But that's exactly what I'm getting at - there's no perspective at all. If you want to have a discussion about 'reopening the country' at the very least take some time out of those 2 hour daily press briefings to elaborate on that.

People who try to justify the way in which Trump is handling things should get a reality check. Even in business his crisis management would be considered incompetent.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Don't worry, someone who has been bankrupt once will have learned some valuable lessons.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3423

Larssen wrote:

As always though the whole thing is considered win or lose. Either everything's open or everything's closed. No mention of stimulating work from home, step by step lifting of industry restrictions - now there's a 'reopen the country' taskforce led by his daughter, and 10 dissenting governors.

The best part is that most health scientists predict a second wave of corona cases in autumn, around election time. I'm in no doubt Trump will refuse to reinstate restrictions once business has resumed. Not being able to lie his way out of this one or find a quick-fix must be enraging to the types who live for short term gratification.
the western world, chief among them the US and the UK, have failed utterly in implementing the chief and core component of any pandemic response: widespread and rapid testing. every nation that has had any success with it, for e.g. korea and taiwan, were militant in their response and spared no costs. now we are all staring a year of reduced economic activity in the face. our leaders bungled badly and 10,000s of people, with no exaggeration, will die unnecessarily.

plenty of warnings were made, not just before the pandemic but as and when it was occurring. we knew we had to fund this stuff years ago. we knew at the start of the year that something very bad was going on in china. every time they made decisions based on keeping the magic stock numbers sky-high.

it should be an absolute scandal but people are too busy getting angry at each other on the internet for supporting the wrong political party.

Last edited by uziq (2020-04-14 03:37:13)

Larssen
Member
+99|1858
I guess it cements the notion that we're moving into an asian era. This crisis will cripple western economies for years.

Or at least a Korean-Chinese-Japanese era. The Philippines and Indonesia aren't doing too well.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-04-14 03:51:26)

uziq
Member
+492|3423
the EU has been hopeless. the US has been borderline misanthropic. the UK has been bad to a malign extent.

asian countries, whether due to their political systems, their cultures, or their prior recent experience with SARS, have done immeasurably better than laggard western nations.

whatever happens, we are going to have to re-build a world economy whilst admitting an unapologetic and emboldened China. their system weathered this shit and it worked. you can point fingers forever at where and how it started, but it isn't going to magic back the economy. do you really think 'the west' is ever going to win some 'soft power' ideological battle against china when now new york is a plague city? lmao. your average chinese person is going to be cemented in their belief that western democracy is the idiot child of the family for generations to come.

this was obvious before, but now painfully so: trump is the best thing to ever happen to the putins and xi jinpings of this world. how can anyone make the claim that democracy is the shining example of the world when it has produced this orange, inept excrescence? putin can preside over the most corrupt circle of plutocrats on the planet and nod towards trump, laughing: 'what, you prefer that?!' the CCP only has to show 5 minutes of one of trump's daily 2-hour ramble-a-thons and the entire chinese nation laugh at once.

Last edited by uziq (2020-04-14 04:20:01)

Larssen
Member
+99|1858
I see it more as an indictment of the two party system to be honest. While multiparty democracies in continental Europe have movements comparable to Trump and the ERG, their influence is limited and subdued by the need for coalition governments. The only problem children here are Hungary and Poland, but their democracies are relatively new.

In the EU I'm certain the lack of test production capacity played a part in the sluggish response. It's an argument for a sort of modular/reserve industrial base that can be scaled up as necessary.
uziq
Member
+492|3423
the UK office for budget responsibility just posted a scenario:
https://obr.uk/coronavirus-reference-scenario/

unemployment up by 2 million.
GDP contraction of up to 35%

worst economic hit in a century.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Testing, contact tracing and isolation, you need all three.

Anyhoo, China is going to fuck us, wasn't Trump a Russian puppet from day one?
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uziq
Member
+492|3423
trump hardly needs to collude or conspire with the russians. he is already giving them a great hand even by being elected. he can be their unwitting fool perfectly well.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6076|eXtreme to the maX
Russia has kicked off, so much for another 'do nothing, we'll be fine' plan.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3423
russians have little to lose other than their lives. the economy is smaller than spain. corruption and cronyism are endemic. plus they have stalingrad to hang onto.

should add an /s



ahahahahahahahahaha

'journalists, stop asking questions! watch this video that ivanka put together on her mac'.

Last edited by uziq (2020-04-14 08:30:27)

Larssen
Member
+99|1858
Trump and Goebbels would've been best buds.
uziq
Member
+492|3423
it reminds me of netanyehu's presentations. was it to the UN? the ones where he had like some sort of pie chart or a pyramid or something with 'nuclear bomb' on it. christ it was bad.

'shut up and accept our presentation of the facts. televise this'.

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