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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX
The fact is they are new and we don't know the long-term consequences.
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uziq
Member
+466|2789
better turn off the 4g on your phone chap. it’s a fact after all.

“if a country can manage to control the spread of a disease where you need to mix blood in intercourse or with needles, why can’t we effortlessly stamp out a highly infectious respiratory disease where one single nasal droplet is enough to spread contagion?”

you’re a genius. you missed out on a laureled career in public health.

here’s me thinking i’ve done exceptionally well to avoid catching covid these last 3 years. turns out all i had to do was avoid unprotected anal sex on my way to work or in our public places. it’s a doozy!

Last edited by uziq (2022-02-03 23:20:40)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,980|6109|USA

Not knowing full extent of what people here have lost to it, I'd be careful calling anyone 'overjoyed' at the pandemic. That comes pretty close to jay's tissue box comment.

As far as I can recall, by zeek it's only been sarcastic jabs against inefficacious zero covid?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX
Once again uziq completely fails to get the points.

AIDS affects pretty well no-one, yet there has been a concerted effort to defeat and eradicate it, as we should with every disease.

COVID affects everyone but we should just throw in the towel and give up.

Why does uziq gloat every time a country gives up on eradication? Its very weird.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,980|6109|USA

I don't think eradication efforts and zero covid policy share all of the same space on a Venn diagram.
uziq
Member
+466|2789
first it was bubonic plague. then leprosy. now it’s AIDS.

you really need to work on your comparisons. you sound fucking insane.

the amount of investment and resources required to eradicate covid is about 20 orders of magnitude higher than AIDS. how ridiculously stupid are you? did you miss the fact that the federal reserve had to print about $3 trillion dollars to keep society afloat after the US aimed for a ‘suppressive’ lockdown of covid? well now it’s 70x more infectious than it was then - when we still failed.

defeating AIDS or funding medication/vaccination efforts to help the comparatively tiny number who are afflicted aren’t quite on the same economic or social costs as ‘full lockdown for 3 months and permanently closed borders’. everyone is highly susceptible to catching and transmitting covid. it's a fucking respiratory illness, not a blood-borne immunovirus.

could you imagine even asking the city of new york to shut down at the peak of the AIDS crisis? the public health profiles of the diseases are, for fuck’s sake, nothing alike. there 'has been a concerted effort' to defeat AIDS? on the part of WHOM? 99.9% of people have been asked to do precisely fuck all to 'combat the spread of AIDS'. it's been pursued exclusively by pharmaceutical companies who have made small killings from the expensive and specialist drugs. society-at-large made more efforts towards stigmatizing AIDS victims than doing anything to combat the disease. you are positively cracked.

i just can’t even reason with how stupid you are. i honestly just can’t

as we should with every disease
erm what! we could have solved the world’s malaria crisis, and it’s hunger crisis whilst we’re at it, for a fraction of the money we’ve spent on covid lockdowns and economic stimulus packages. why haven’t you been here pounding your fists on the table to remove an extinguishable disease?

DOES it make sense for EVERY disease? why don’t we go into a 6 month global lockdown/hibernation to get rid of flu or the common cold?

most diseases endemic to humankind are barely even worth the commercial incentive of developing vaccines for. the idea we should ‘aim to eradicate every disease’ is a complete load of high-falutin’ sounding bollocks. you yourself wouldn’t stay inside under lockdown or accept being furloughed at work for 95% of the diseases in common circulation.

Last edited by uziq (2022-02-04 06:06:06)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX
Nonsense, Covid could have been dealt with. With an extra 1-2 month's notice from the Chinese, an honest admission of what we were facing and a proper response this would have been shut down. Travel restrictions alone would have done it.

You're like the kid who dropped his project on the way to class, then thinks he should be allowed to smash everyone else's project "so its fair".
Britain and various other countries failed utterly, thats why you're so pleased when other countries throw in the towel against a new variant which should never have existed.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,980|6109|USA

Getting people vaccinated and telling them to stay at home when they test positive or have symptoms isn't exactly throwing in the towel. Indefinite, nationwide lockdown when it isn't needed is more along the lines of giving up.

Whatever fanciful "could have happened" in the past in terms of magically detecting and quarantining all the patient zeroes until it blew over isn't something that's actionable now. The focus should be on what's epidemiologically sound, and keeping unnecessary COVID-19 hospitalizations to a minimum so our health care infrastructures can get on with working on all the other ticking clocks out there.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX
Aus and NZ have given up on closed interstate and international borders, this has been a disaster.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,980|6109|USA

Countries were criticized for entering lockdown too late in early 2020. It is now 2022. There is also the compliance factor, and other human risks and factors well-discussed in this thread, to take into consideration.

We have vaccines.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX
The compliance factor was overstated, thats been recognised.

Here when the borders opened an awful lot of people went into self-imposed lockdown, hospitality and other businesses are dead.
All the supposed benefits of opening up grossly outweighed by the negatives.
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uziq
Member
+466|2789
dilbert’s like the kid who thinks if he keeps repeating himself and throwing a tantrum, his dumb wrong ideas will magically be allowed to be right.

there was no way to contain a highly infectious, asymptomatic novel pathogen to one small locale or cluster. even with all the best intentions in the world from china. it’s a nonsense. we’ve been over this about 11 times before. covid was immediately a multi-national, multi-lateral problem.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX
Erm no it wasn't.
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uziq
Member
+466|2789
covid was back-detected to fatalities in europe and america as early as october/november of that year. almost coeval with the crisis gaining pace in china.

all this has been gone over so many times. sars-cov-2 is not sars. it was a significantly more challenging epidemiological picture.

china’s dishonesty obviously didn’t help. it did setback efforts by measurable weeks/months, or at least gave tardy and unprepared western governments an easy scapegoat, if nothing else.

but if you think a novel pathogen surfacing in a city of millions, which is a hub of the global logistical system, could have been nipped in the bud in week 1, you have some serious problems denying the highly interconnected and rapid pace of the current global system.

these aren’t medieval city states and this isn’t bubonic plague, taking weeks to travel between population groups on galleons.

Last edited by uziq (2022-02-05 00:30:12)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,980|6109|USA

fun:

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

covid was back-detected to fatalities in europe and america as early as october/november of that year. almost coeval with the crisis gaining pace in china.

all this has been gone over so many times. sars-cov-2 is not sars. it was a significantly more challenging epidemiological picture.

china’s dishonesty obviously didn’t help. it did setback efforts by measurable weeks/months, or at least gave tardy and unprepared western governments an easy scapegoat, if nothing else.

but if you think a novel pathogen surfacing in a city of millions, which is a hub of the global logistical system, could have been nipped in the bud in week 1, you have some serious problems denying the highly interconnected and rapid pace of the current global system.

these aren’t medieval city states and this isn’t bubonic plague, taking weeks to travel between population groups on galleons.
And multiple countries, including China, managed to knock it out only to reintroduce it through travel.

At this point we don't know the long term effects of:
- Covid
- Covid vaccines

Apparently spanish flu is linked to parkinsons
https://www.parkinson.org/blog/science- … parkinsons
Glandular fever linked to MS
https://www.newscientist.com/article/23 … arr-virus/

What Covid will do to us we don't know. But yeah, just travel and party and don't worry because everyones going to get it

Effect of a novel and experimental vaccine? We have no idea.
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uziq
Member
+466|2789
so funny that you still make out the only reasons for open borders are tourism and partying.

yeah dilbert, china definitely hasn’t had recurrent clusters of covid because they reopened their borders needlessly to tourists.

i do recall several of their leaks were due to people crossing borders illegally to work, or returning from approved business and passing through their rigorous quarantine system.

we have been over this SO many times. it’s boring. you keep repeating the same inane lies as if it’ll magically make your case true.

we are only just beginning to understand the POSSIBLE causes of certain autoimmune or neurological conditions. there is no hard link between MS and mono, or say glandular fever. it’s a commonality established in one data set. more research needed.

and besides, if you really think the fix suggested by such research is ‘shut down society forever and live in a condition of highly curtailed liberty, forever’ then you are fucking insane. human beings have coexisted with glandular fever for millennia.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

‘shut down society forever and live in a condition of highly curtailed liberty, forever’ .
Never said that either.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+466|2789
we don’t know the long-term consequences of any number of things we accept as environmental or endemic.

if you buy any seafood or supermarket nosh you’re probably part of the first human generation in history to regularly consume micro plastics.

if you or any of your family used a teflon product in the 70s and 80s, you’re one of the first ever living organisms to host a forever chemical - and guess what, so will your grandkids. it’s in you forever.

every time you go out into a modern city or suburban area you’re huffing noxious exhaust fumes, air pollutants and particulates which have measurable negative effects on your long-term cognition.

i take it you only therefore eat yams grown in your own back garden and cooked in a traditional earth oven. i take it you studiously avoid all risk and harm in your life.

scaremongering about covid vaccines because ‘we don’t know the long term effects!’, ominously mentioning parkinson’s and MS, is fucking tantamount to anti vaxxer nonsense. it’s ‘vaccines cause autism’ all over again.

even if residual covid viruses in the body lead to neurological defects, which is a pretty huge fucking if, that doesn’t mean anything towards the current epidemiological picture. in which it is absolutely exigent to vaccinate and boost widely in order to make society safe.

we can’t exterminate covid. it’s impossible. whether we ever could is highly hypothetical and there’s just as many factors and fait accomplis which suggest we couldn’t: the globalized, next-day-delivery, made-in-china world gets the pathogens it deserves.

i am really unsure what your proposal is on the back of all this vaccine/long covid scaremongering. keep using ineffective lockdowns forever? how many more times do you need to be shown states failing to contain delta/omicron/+?

Last edited by uziq (2022-02-06 00:57:03)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX
Once again, restrict travel -> No need for lockdowns
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uziq
Member
+466|2789
once again, hasn’t worked in any single state you’ve pointed to.

absolutely clueless.

how do closed borders bring down the r-number of a highly infectious variant that is general in the population?

just staggeringly dumb.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,778|5443|eXtreme to the maX
If the nucleations are kept low enough the R-number can be dealt with by test and trace.

Few countries have been brave enough to properly constrain travel - bizarrely Britain was allowing free travel while locking down - idiots.
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uziq
Member
+466|2789
in which country has it worked? WHICH? i want you to read the following very carefully and use your thick head.

i have lived in a 'model' success for the last year. korea has a maximum group size for socialisation. has done for most of the year.

currently highest ever cases and skyrocketing. no sign of abating. measures that maintained the perimeter wall for most of the pandemic are laughably inadequate when faced with omicron.

If the nucleations are kept low enough
how do you keep ‘nucleations’ small and still have schools? offices? allow family mixing? public transport? civil society?

i lived through a 3 month period in which the maximum nucleation size was 2 people, occasionally going to 3/4. let me tell you, if you’re away from your close family/not living at home/living alone/etc., these policies are no joke. the government essentially asks people to take all known risks to go to work for 40-60 hours a week (or to work remotely if you're in an extremely fortunate, though doubly socially isolated, minority), but then to never see anyone else outside of a very narrow window of permitted, productive behaviour. it’s fucking tough on individuals in any sort of long term and a big cost to pay if the measurable results on that r-number are paltry.

in this current omicron wave, the korean government are insisting, against their evident overwhelming nullity, on measures such as strict 9pm curfews and the ubiquitous 'small nucleation size'. koreans are really sick of it now and burn out is very real. they've been expected to turn up to work every day for the last 2.5 years but have to go back home to their hutches after 1.5-2 hours of socializing with 1/2 other people. it's not a trivial ask when your proposed 'solutions' effectively extend this state-of-affairs indefinitely. there will always be new variants, always recurrent waves.

for how long should the young sacrifice their key education and most important years of face-to-face socialisation? we’ve done 3. 5? half a decade? should young people miss their entire elementary education to save the 80+ year olds who still won’t get vaccinated? ‘we have to keep nucleations small! no classrooms! nAyBe tHe vAccInEs aRe DaNgerOus’.

it's frankly amazing that you talk about 'bravery' and invoke pathetic war-like rhetoric, when, of course, all these measures you advocate for, a childless, live-at-home hermit with no social life, and no job to attend to, in fact ... don't affect you at all. so 'brave'! the things you advocate for don't affect you negatively at all! this is weirdly redolent of your moral superiority over being a vegetarian when you, er, don't like the taste of meat. you're on the frontlines of the valorous struggle, alright!

these measures barely held the flood back in the pre-delta era. the r-number was a pressure valve that could be turned this way and that, with a raft of highly restrictive and economically costly measures, but it certainly wasn’t heading towards suppression/extermination. waves rose, crested, and washed away based on their own internal dynamics as much as anything else; social distancing could only ever 'flatten the curve'.

once again, for the 15th time this thread: we are post delta now. measures that worked for much less infectious strains don’t work at all now.

the R-number can be dealt with by test and trace.
and WHAT test and trace system could do it? korea had one of the world’s finest test and trace systems, the envy of the world (which also meant one of the most invasive and privacy denying). the korean test and trace system gave up after about 2,500 cases per day. after that it was literally unmanageable.

new zealand’s test and trace gave up during the delta era also.

after a certain point you reach 20-30% threshold of ‘untraced’ community transmission, which mostly means public transport or free exchange in public spaces (which, see point about nucleation above), and at that point test and trace is bailing water out of a sinking ship using a thimble.

all of the most effective test and trace systems in the world essentially hit a wall in the low-thousands of cases. as soon as you get multiple untraced clusters or a megaspreader event here and there, you're forever playing catch-up. again, korea abandoned theirs after about 2,500 daily cases. here you are blithely recommending that 'test and trace will do it' in a scenario where most countries have ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND CASES a day. how the fuck is test and trace going to turnaround this situation? just unbelievably dumb.

you talk fine claptrap but THIS HAS ALL BEEN TRIED AND FAILED for MONTHS by MULTIPLE countries. covid is LITERALLY EVOLVING into a VASTLY MORE INFECTIOUS YET LESS DEADLY form and here you are proposing … a strategy based primarily on reducing the rate of transmission! something we struggled to do adequately with the fucking alpha variant! never at any point in this entire pandemic has ‘get your vaccine and you’ll be fine’ been truer! jesus fucking christ dilbert. yes, let’s tackle omicron with social distancing and track and trace

Last edited by uziq (2022-02-06 06:38:53)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,980|6109|USA

Lawsuit accuses COVID-19 testing company of faking results
https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/sta … 09378.html

Washington state Attorney General Bob Ferguson has filed a lawsuit against an Illinois-based COVID-19 testing company, accusing it of improperly handling tests and providing fake results.

The lawsuit announced Monday and filed in King County Superior Court said the Center for COVID Control “failed to deliver prompt, valid and accurate results,” made deceptive promises of results within 48 hours, and reportedly instructed its employees to “lie to patients on a daily basis,” The Seattle Times reported.

It describes how the company expanded to about 300 locations throughout the United States and collected tens of thousands of tests a day.

“Center for COVID Control contributed to the spread of COVID-19 when it provided false negative results,” Ferguson said in a statement. “These sham testing centers threatened the health and safety of our communities. They must be held accountable.”

The lawsuit also said the Center for COVID Control stored tests in garbage bags — rather than properly refrigerating them — backdated sample-collection dates so stale samples would still be processed and instructed its employees to lie when Washington residents asked about delayed results.

The Center for COVID Control did not respond to a request for comment Monday from the newspaper or from The Associated Press. All of its locations are closed “until further notice,” according to its website.

The company said in a news release on the website that it was using “this operational pause to train additional staff."

The Center for COVID Control sites had been operating in Washington state since October and was increasingly popular particularly after the rapid spread of the omicron variant prompted a rise in demand for tests.

Locations in Seattle, Bellevue, Tacoma, Lakewood, University Place, Auburn, Lynnwood, Everett, Port Orchard and Yakima in Washington promised free test results within 15 minutes for a rapid test and within 48 hours for a more sensitive PCR test.

But recently, customers throughout the country have been complaining about the center’s delayed or lack of results, leading health authorities in several states, including California and Illinois, to launch investigations.

City officials in In Lakewood, Washington, issued a stop-work order at their local site in mid-January after receiving complaints about the company and finding it was operating without a business license, “among other concerns,” the city said.

The company didn’t have a license to operate a business in any Washington cities except Yakima, according to the attorney general’s office.

Ferguson’s office plans to file a motion for preliminary injunction “soon to immediately stop the Center for COVID Control’s unlawful conduct,” his statement said.

The lawsuit asks the court to order the Center for COVID Control to pay civil penalties of up to $12,500 per violation of the Consumer Protection Act and relinquish any profits the company made from its “unlawful conduct,” in addition to permanently closing all locations, the statement said.
Just the name alone sounds like a phishing scam or one of those totally non-sus websites you end up on while mistyping amazon or microsoft.

"Center for COVID Control," lol.

see also:

Washington AG sues FBI-raided COVID-testing company
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani … ar-AAT8ERO

A COVID-19 testing company that claimed to run more than 300 pop-up locations across the U.S. is under investigation by state and federal agencies for allegedly delivering inaccurate and even falsified test results.
Looking forward to the COVID politics this week, a company's scandal unfolded into the entire workforce in US healthcare. A completed connect the dots with a straight line from dot 1 to dot 20, how it usually goes.
uziq
Member
+466|2789
bad behaviour from scientists and politicians likely led to 100,000s of excess deaths.

because of vaccine skepticism.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 … id-vaccine

funny how dilbert still recycles shit like ‘we don’t know the long term consequences’ when using wifi in his parent’s office room.

Last edited by uziq (2022-02-07 01:49:10)

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