Except the clever part is the govt doesn't have to provide bail-outs.Cybargs wrote:
and a defacto shut down is pretty much occuring due to the quick spread of omnicron. its like aus, no lockdown but lots of business' closed due to staffing issues due to infection.
they know they can't give gerry harvey any more money, now time to fuck over small businesses!Dilbert_X wrote:
Except the clever part is the govt doesn't have to provide bail-outs.Cybargs wrote:
and a defacto shut down is pretty much occuring due to the quick spread of omnicron. its like aus, no lockdown but lots of business' closed due to staffing issues due to infection.
Neat no?
Still no reason for Australia to blindly follow Europe.uziq wrote:
please stop making out that australia is the norm. it isn’t.
the tax bill from furloughs are huge right across the board.
other nations which aren’t at all similar to the UK’s model, like korea for instance, can’t countenance the economic costs. it’s a nation of small business owners, in the main, with the petit-bourgeois all owning restaurants, coffee shops, small enterprises, etc. the korean govt has absolutely no means or werewithal to prop up the economy with handouts or financial support. it has been minimal throughout. if/when omicron breaks in a big way, the economic stressors will be immense. an absolutely catastrophic number of small businesses have failed here in the last 2-3 years of restrictions as it is: again for the same reason above, never an officially announced lockdown and so a slow bleeding out.
Last edited by uziq (2022-01-09 03:13:30)
i have literally told you about 3 times that SARS-1 has a very different infection profile to SARS-2. same family of viruses, yes, but tabbies and lions are part of the same family of felines, too. don't confuse them.Dilbert_X wrote:
We had all the experience of SARS-1, the leadership of most countries failed and continue to fail.
well, quite, but i would argue that this thing was a clear indicator that the world system is incredibly complex and our illusion of species-level coordination and control is (for now) just that: an illusion. most states were slow to respond even when the evidence was pressing; there's just so much inertia built into the everyday run-of-the-mill life of society. most nations which had oodles of reports prepared for a pandemic/terrorist attack/natural disaster/etc scenario are mostly exercising a form of wishful thinking or anxiety avoidance by commissioning such things. the simple truth is that in the face of a global-scale emergency, or at the moment of need, a lot of leaders delay or fadge it.the leadership of most countries failed and continue to fail.
Last edited by uziq (2022-01-09 05:48:58)
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 … itals.htmlThe extremely transmissible Omicron variant is spreading quickly across the United States, making up a vast majority of U.S. cases after becoming dominant in the week before Christmas.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have said that it is still too soon to predict the full impact Omicron could have on deaths and illness across the country. But data in some of the earliest-hit cities is beginning to show what the future could hold.
In New York City, Boston and Chicago — cities with some of the country’s earliest Omicron surges — deaths have followed cases at a slightly reduced scale than in previous peaks. But because of the extraordinarily high case count, even a proportionally lower death toll from the current case curve in the United States could be devastating.
In early-hit cities, hospitals are seeing more patients testing positive for Covid-19 than at any time last year. Because of the sheer infectiousness of the Omicron variant, many who arrive at the hospital for other ailments test positive for the coronavirus. Some doctors have also said that patients who do have Covid as a primary diagnosis are faring better than during previous waves.
Even so, the number of Covid-19 patients who need intensive care or mechanical ventilation is approaching levels not seen since last winter. And the sheer number of patients is overwhelming to hospitals, where staffing shortages are putting healthcare workers under immense strain.
Healthcare workers were already quitting their jobs in record numbers before the Omicron wave. Now, many more are out sick with the hugely transmissible variant. With fewer staff members available to care for them, even a smaller number of patients can overwhelm emergency departments and intensive care units.
Since vaccines became available, those who are vaccinated have been far less likely to be hospitalized with severe Covid-19 than those who are unvaccinated. Early data from New York City shows that the vaccination gap in hospitalizations became even wider during the first weeks of the city’s Omicron surge.
Vaccinated patients are more likely to experience milder disease, doctors have said, and a vast majority of Omicron patients who require intensive care are unvaccinated or have severely compromised immune systems.
Unvaccinated older people are particularly vulnerable to severe illness from Covid-19. About 12 percent of people in the United States ages 65 and older are not fully vaccinated, according to C.D.C. data. Many parts of the country where that rate is estimated to be highest are also places where surges fueled by the Omicron variant have not yet begun or are only just beginning. Those places include parts of the Midwest and the Mountain West and more rural areas across the country.
Yes, no nation had a carefully written pandemic plan in place for decades.uziq wrote:
i have literally told you about 3 times that SARS-1 has a very different infection profile to SARS-2. same family of viruses, yes, but tabbies and lions are part of the same family of felines, too. don't confuse them.Dilbert_X wrote:
We had all the experience of SARS-1, the leadership of most countries failed and continue to fail.
SARS-1's infection window coincides with its onset of symptoms. therefore you can quickly isolate and quarantine anyone who has the disease. indeed, east asian cultures effectively self-isolate whenever they exhibit symptoms of cold-like illnesses, anyway. we are talking a culture of people who routinely elect to wear masks in public for common colds, for e.g., and have been doing so for decades.
SARS-CoV-2 is (or was, if we specifically consider the ancestor strain) invisible for 10-15 days, or thereabouts. the peak of its infectivity comes during this asymptomatic period.
now tell me how any health body, state authority, or national government could have prevented a novel pathogen from leaving its borders in the first month or so. please, enlighten us. there was no way to notice, isolate and shut down 'patient zero' with this thing. the first person to get infected was carrying it around a high-population, high-density city for 2 weeks. that's even with all the best will in the world, the most open sharing of data, the spirit of greatest cooperation, etc, from the CCP.
yes, many countries with a recent skirmish with SARS-1 were able to effectively contain the spread of SARS-2 better. but that didn't stop it from leaping their borders, invisibly and undetected, in the first place. they were fortunate in that they had huge apparatuses of contact tracing, quarantine systems, medical resources, etc, recently established for just such a purpose. 90% of the world didn't have that; they had reports and warnings, pandemic preparedness documentation, sure, but no concrete and existing infrastructure; but that's not the same thing. we didn't "all" have the experience of SARS-1 outbreaks at all. what in the fuck are you talking about?
your vagueness with the history of this pandemic is pretty astonishing.well, quite, but i would argue that this thing was a clear indicator that the world system is incredibly complex and our illusion of species-level coordination and control is (for now) just that: an illusion. most states were slow to respond even when the evidence was pressing; there's just so much inertia built into the everyday run-of-the-mill life of society. most nations which had oodles of reports prepared for a pandemic/terrorist attack/natural disaster/etc scenario are mostly exercising a form of wishful thinking or anxiety avoidance by commissioning such things. the simple truth is that in the face of a global-scale emergency, or at the moment of need, a lot of leaders delay or fadge it.the leadership of most countries failed and continue to fail.
this is human society tbh. these things are a once-in-a-century event, once in every 3-5 generations in any case, and most of the time the sense of emergency and the urgency to act - along with the tangible, painful memories of the human costs - gets lost along the way. even with all the warnings in the world from scientific advisors prior to the pandemic, was it on any western government's list of priorities to fund such systems and keep them permanently on standby? i think not.
Good enough for me.uziq wrote:
stemming the tide of death
no it's not, you want borders to be permanently closed and travel restrictions to 'pre-emptively' curtail the spread of new variants. which doesn't fucking work.Dilbert_X wrote:
Good enough for me.uziq wrote:
stemming the tide of death
Last edited by uziq (2022-01-09 23:09:59)
So quarantine is effective at 'stemming the tide of death' yet you're still against it.uziq wrote:
quarantines never worked for the medieval plagues you talk about. it depends entirely on the nature of the illness. quarantine decidedly does NOT work at eradicating highly infectious diseases. stemming the tide of death, yes; eradicating, NO.
Canada party plane influencer 'idiots' fly home to face musicunnamednewbie13 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=deskt … dft3cQvyrs
