uziq
Member
+492|3494
the federal government officially abandoned zero covid early after delta's inception, and a long way before omicron. managed re-opening is the norm now in australia and new zealand. it was the proposed policy of the CCP too, but it's foreseeable that they will u-turn and flop on this until the olympics are done. totalitarian countries are politically threatened by this thing in direct proportion to how much social control they exert: draconian restrictions plus failures of containment is a major legitimacy crisis for any regime.

dilbert is still calling for zero-covid or suppression strategies, despite the leaders of aus/NZ both publicly saying they don't work or justify their huge social and economic costs anymore.

even with closed borders, the minimal amount of cross-border traffic, in persons and in goods, that still must occur in order for modern states to function is evidently enough for escapes and leaks. even with long and strict quarantines, there are still exceptional cases of escape. with delta+omicron, that's basically game over for contact tracing. they are simply too infectious. hence zero covid as a viable strategy belongs in the dustbin.

the problem is dilbert and his ilk can't produce any constructive alternative. he puts his head in the sand and pretends that every country, everywhere, can close their borders permanently without any hit to their economies or functioning. he seriously maintains that the only people who need open borders are selfish backpackers and tourists. it's utterly bizarre. this is whilst he orders things online with international shipping on the weekly

dilbert is also willingly confusing this recent wave of travel measures, put in place when unknown scary omicron was announced, as some sort of 'proof' that states are reversing on their reopening decisions. they're not. the paradigm is still 'living with covid', going forward, as that's surely the only fucking feasible one in any medium term. closing travel down whilst we examine a new variant, or during the worst of winter, is not the same as trying to suppress covid. if that were the case, all the european states to bring in travel restrictions would have also enforced strict lockdowns and curbs on social life. they haven't.

Last edited by uziq (2022-01-02 06:17:44)

Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6758

uziq wrote:

the federal government officially abandoned zero covid early after delta's inception, and a long way before omicron. managed re-opening is the norm now in australia and new zealand. it was the proposed policy of the CCP too, but it's foreseeable that they will u-turn and flop on this until the olympics are done. totalitarian countries are politically threatened by this thing in direct proportion to how much social control they exert: draconian restrictions plus failures of containment is a major legitimacy crisis for any regime.
The problem with the fed is they say one thing, and do another... at the start of Delta they actually tightened up borders and banned citizens from returning (a gross human rights violation) and didn't lift restrictions of citizens leaving until well after november of 2021. both very unnecessary restrictions which did nothing to stop the wave.

the feds basically let the states do everything cos our PM had things in the "too hard bucket" and just couldn't be fucked. there's also political issues to consider, if things go well take some credit for it (he did with NSW and called us the gold standard), if it goes bad blame the states (victoria which has a labor premier).

but yeh dilbs is a mong about travel lol, it isn't the main issue causing the rona. blame the feds for taking a huge back seat when it came to quarantine, it is literally their constitutional responsibility and they went "naw ceebs" and left it to the states.

in saying that, i'm surprised taiwan hasn't had a leak or outbreak of omnicron yet even with a reduced quarantine period of 7 days in a hotel but 7 days at home.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
uziq
Member
+492|3494
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/14 … 9440713729

It's pretty impressive that vaccines directed to the ancestral strain spike from 2 years ago, w/ the virus that's evolved thru >290 million confirmed cases, and now to the hyper-mutated Omicron, have preserved efficacy of near 90% vs severe disease with a 3rd shot
correct.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6147|eXtreme to the maX
Ah except that falls to about 40% within a few months after the booster no? Pretty pathetic.

International travel has seeded literally every outbreak in Aus.
We could have continued indefinitely with severe international and state border restrictions with minimal impact to speak of, business as usual except sensible precautions like mask wearing and density limits - worked great for two years.
The Federal govt should have managed international travel, not left it to morons like Daniel Andrews and his hipster health advisor.

Now we have a Trumpist premier of NSW and he and the CEO of Qantas - who has had $2bn in support - have persuaded the liberal party to open everything up - with the result that everything has closed down - except this time there's no govt support for shuttered businesses.

A minute minority of internet-addled nuts have been out protesting, I guess America should have caved to the capitol rioters.

Various states have done well and still are. The rest could have been running fine now but for the liberal party going full Trump.

Albanese has had some style advice and will probably be the next PM, liberals probably out in SA, not sure what the sentiment is in NSW over this nut Perrotet.
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uziq
Member
+492|3494
new
vaccines
are
in
development

40%
is
still
good
protection
by
any
measure

omicron
is
harmless
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6147|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

new
vaccines
are
in
development
lets
wait
for
them
then

40%
is
still
good
protection
by
any
measure
No
its
shit

omicron
is
harmless
Somehow
its
killing
people
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uziq
Member
+492|3494
how many people are dying from omicron? last figures i read had it as 4.5% of hospital admissions. largely in the unvaccinated. that’s a tiny, tiny proportion of the population.

it isn’t even an affliction of the lungs at this point. you can’t die of a sore throat unless you’re in very bad shape indeed.

40% protection after 3 months is precisely fine. take a booster in the winter/peak when conditions are at their nastiest, then move on. honestly if you complain one more time about having to get a booster shot, for free, from a plentiful supply, once every 6 months, i’m going to book a flight to australia and shoot you up myself … with crack.

Last edited by uziq (2022-01-02 17:00:07)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6813|PNW

New vaccines are always going to be in development until we get some sort of sci-fi (like dune), self-perpetuating, self-updating serum that protects against everything in perpetuity.

Dilbert in 2021: gonna wait for the new vaccines
Dilbert in 2022: gonna wait for the new vaccines
Dilbert in 2023: gonna wait for th---

you get the idea
uziq
Member
+492|3494
2 year old vaccines still patch you up for a good 6 months.

soon there will be antiviral pills, which are also highly effective, to take out of your medicine cabinet and take whenever you get /slaped by boris.

the variant in the ascendant is altogether more mild than any previous wave. even less deadly than the ancestral strain from preliminary figures.

and yet dilbert still moans about where we are in this pandemic. still has wish-fulfilment fantasies of rewinding the clock. still thinks we should lockdown the world and shutter the global economy ‘until vaccines are ready’. for what? i’m not curtailing my life anymore so that unvaccinated people won’t be afflicted with a nasty sore throat.

evidently the majority of australians feel my way. the majority of them expressed support in the polls for ‘living with covid’. why is dilbert, the staunch ‘respect the people’ brexiteer, riding roughshod over the will of the People!

Last edited by uziq (2022-01-02 17:14:00)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6147|eXtreme to the maX
Where do you get your information?
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n … ore-deaths

WA has had easily the strictest strategy, 94% of people in WA approve
"I'm really happy with how the WA government has handled the pandemic," said Ms Odorus, whose Australian-Indonesian family decided to permanently relocate due to the pandemic.

While there were pros and cons of the strictness of the government's policy compared with other states, she said, "we are really, really living in a COVID-free bubble and living a normal life".
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-01/ … /100662472

Given the choice most people would live in a covid-free bubble indefinitely.

I think the issue is NSW and Vic failed with their half-assed response and people formed the view there was no point living under half-assed restrictions and failing to control covid.

Why the federal libs think that NSW and Vics failures should be inflicted on the rest of the country I don't know, pretty well everyone I speak to is utterly pissed.
Next election is going to be interesting.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2022-01-02 17:24:20)

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uziq
Member
+492|3494
well done at choosing the poll from one of the least populated states to represent ‘the people’. lmao. i’m really surprised that the people of perth are oddly okay with remaining in isolation.

and an article that is over 4 months old. LMAO. you’re really not good at reading large highlighted header warnings on these sites you hurriedly google, are you? that’s two elementary mistakes in two days.

i linked it a few pages back. BBC article on national level polling and approval rates. 60%+ of polled australians agreed with the plan to reopen and relax measures after the stated vaccination level was met.

sorry but there is no way the majority of people want to stay in a bubble forever under restrictions. most people aren’t sadsack pieces of shit, dilbert. they have families, social lives, hobbies, aims and goals beyond sitting at home sniffling and rehashing the same 2.5 tired arguments endlessly on the internet.

burnout at this point is very real and compliance is falling off a cliff. you need to countenance this seriously and stop fibbing with this bullshit: ‘australia has managed perfectly’, ‘people support it’, ‘we could do this indefinitely with no consequence’. shut up already.

Last edited by uziq (2022-01-02 17:38:47)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6147|eXtreme to the maX
At that point people believed the govt had capacity for testing, tracking and tracing.

The plan was that people could travel interstate if they had a negative test before departing.
The govt didn't put test capacity in place for this, then removed the test requirement as soon as test centres were swamped.

Even international travellers don't need to quarantine or test, utterly stupid.

So what we have now is people travelling everywhere without being tested at any time and infecting previously safe places which had expected people would be tested negative before they got there.

It would be interesting to see the polls now, I bet they're very different.
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uziq
Member
+492|3494
i have never advocated for those things and i am tired of repeating it. tests, masks, etc, are all obviously prudent and prima facie effective.

but your statement that ‘most people would be fine living in a covid-free bubble forever’ is absolutely ridiculous. we are living in times of unprecedented curtailments to daily life and personal liberty. all around the world, regardless of the measures and approach adopted, people are quite reasonably starting to wonder about the exit-strategy for all this stuff. every new lockdown now is really stretching political credibility. people ARE fed up. and that’s not nothing. after a certain tipping point, it is a real epidemiological factor. people are not machines or static quantities in a model.

Last edited by uziq (2022-01-02 17:45:05)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6147|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

we are living in times of unprecedented curtailments to daily life and personal liberty
Here, WA etc we had only one curtailment - we couldn't travel out of state and return without quarantining - not much of an imposition and affected hardly anyone.

Everything else was operating as normal, shops, restaurants, cinemas, sport etc. business was fine.

Now we've allowed unconstrained travel literally every other sector of the economy is shut down - real curtailments to daily life and personal liberty for literally everyone.
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uziq
Member
+492|3494
fancy that, a land quarantine didn’t affect you when you live on a vast continent separated by 1000s of km’s.

you really are a top-rate brain. the benelux nations should introduce closed borders and quarantined for any cross-state business. it worked fine in australia!

take your vitamins you dumkopf.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+637|3761
Journal for 1/3/21, the 800th day of the Pandemic

Still no Zombies. Not even one Zombie false alarm. My disappointment is immeasurable.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6147|eXtreme to the maX
Maybe the next variant will turn people into zombies.
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Larssen
Member
+99|1929
Dilbert, reading your posts I'm ever more confused by your distaste of China. Considering your social & political positions it may as well be utopia. You want a zero covid lockdown? You got it. You want a culture that rejects foreigners entirely? There you go. Asylum seekers? No such thing in China. Black/brown people? The Chinese government would surely agree with your rants about african american protesters and indian taxi drivers.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6147|eXtreme to the maX
China does what in its own interests, other countries need to act in their own interests and not do themselves down in the hope other countries, like China, will see the example and follow suit - because they won't and will instead use others weakness to their advantage.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6813|PNW

It's in the world's best interest to mitigate human suffering arising from things like conflict and pandemics.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6147|eXtreme to the maX
It is however liberal countries burning themselves out making the world a better place allows the selfish countries to steal a march on them.

NSW Health has revealed 72 per cent of COVID positive patients admitted to ICU since December 16 were infected with the Delta variant of the virus, not the Omicron strain.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-04/ … /100736056
So Omicron being less harmful is irrelevant.

Of those patients, 62 per cent were not vaccinated or had received only one dose of a vaccine
Presumably 38% were fully vaccinated. Doesn't really seem like we're winning here.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6813|PNW

You know, considering the selfish origins, histories, and ongoing selfish actions, and selfish individuals and officials, of "selfless liberal countries," it sort of comes across as incredibly hypocritical, oafish and vain for someone in the west to call another nation a "selfish country," while claiming yours is above everything. Barely a partial step above Trump language.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6147|eXtreme to the maX
Comparatively

China and Russia have only ever acted in their own interests so far, China has taken no refugees to speak of since the 1970s.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6813|PNW

Larssen just pointed out the intense irony of you looking to China for inspiration, after having had so many bad things to say about the country.

Besides which, helping other countries isn't purely selfless anyway.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6147|eXtreme to the maX
When have I looked to China for inspiration?

Larssen is making things up.
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