uziq
Member
+492|3445
you seem confused. during the era of smallpox most of india didn’t have refrigeration or electricity either (most still doesn’t). in 1966 india started vaccine manufacturing. india is now the world’s biggest manufacturer of vaccines.

it’s very possible in africa with the right investment and development framework.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01048-1

again, africa is very big and actually rather economically diverse. there are literally hundreds of millions of people who could benefit from better vaccine distribution/decentralisation in africa. it’s not one huge expanse that’s inaccessible to a refrigerated truck or van.

the 1-3% rates of vaccination in the continent do not reflect ‘logistical difficulties’. it represents a widespread political failure at the collective/global level. literally LOL if you think only 3% of africans live within reach of a major city with refrigeration.

Last edited by uziq (2021-12-09 16:09:59)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6098|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

you seem confused. during the era of smallpox most of india didn’t have refrigeration or electricity either (most still doesn’t). in 1966 india started vaccine manufacturing. india is now the world’s biggest manufacturer of vaccines.
The smallpox vaccine didn't need refrigerated distribution you moron.

Covid vaccine does and its not there
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/pub … 9-vaccines

Why are you finding this hard?

Most of its probably simple incompetence, I bet they regret throwing out the white devils now.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-12-09 16:40:51)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6764|PNW

CNN at it again with the dangled clickbait of a title. "One year since the first Covid vaccination, what have vaccines achieved?" Take, of course: "VACCINES NOT WORKING!!"

Not as bad as they sometimes are, but still maybe they should stop leading into it like that with stuff important for public health.



Meanwhile, comments taken over by Fox-apes. Check it out, mac.
uziq
Member
+492|3445

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

you seem confused. during the era of smallpox most of india didn’t have refrigeration or electricity either (most still doesn’t). in 1966 india started vaccine manufacturing. india is now the world’s biggest manufacturer of vaccines.
The smallpox vaccine didn't need refrigerated distribution you moron.

Covid vaccine does and its not there
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/pub … 9-vaccines

Why are you finding this hard?

Most of its probably simple incompetence, I bet they regret throwing out the white devils now.
the smallpox vaccine was freeze-dried. this allowed it to be administered as a multi-use powder rather than a biologically active serum.

i didn't mention india in relation to the smallpox effort. i mentioned it because in that era, i.e. in a relatively recent timeframe, it was an undeveloped backwater with no vaccine infrastructure/manufacturing, and is now the single biggest manufacturer of vaccines in the world. which rather puts pay to the idea that 'developing nations' can't be trusted with the relatively simple manufacture of regular vaccines. a line which is often trotted out by protective western nations acting on behalf of their pharma companies/supply-chains.

Last edited by uziq (2021-12-09 20:09:23)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6098|eXtreme to the maX
^ None of which is relevant to the problem of distributing vaccines which require a cold chain in Africa.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3712
https://i.redd.it/wq6th3eddq481.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3445

Dilbert_X wrote:

^ None of which is relevant to the problem of distributing vaccines which require a cold chain in Africa.
again, if you think only 2-3% of the population of africa are within reach of a refrigerator, i have some news for you.

the world is failing the global south massively on this issue, and things like omicron should act as a wake-up call, not an occasion for resigned pessimism.

how are you in support of travel bans and massive restrictions of personal freedom when you also don't think the majority of the world can ever possibly be vaccinated? how are those two positions tenable? so you're, in effect, asking for a total decoupling of 4–5 first-world nations from the rest of the world, with a totally bricked-off border, forever? OK dilbert. go and have a think.
uziq
Member
+492|3445

SuperJail Warden wrote:

https://i.redd.it/wq6th3eddq481.jpg
aren't most anti-vaxxers more like aunts, great aunts, and grandmas?

i don't see many people in their 20s–40s on the anti-vaxx bandwagon. the few that are do uncannily fall into those sort of 'alternative' lifestyles with dreadlocks and healing crystals, yes, or your more classic brand of weed-paranoid shut-in stoner.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6764|PNW

Younger people showing up in videos of that stuff frequently. Aging and elderly Karens are only part of the demographic.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6098|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

https://i.redd.it/wq6th3eddq481.jpg
I thought it was usually the hipsters who had excess kids.

Favourite anecdote:

TV show about environmental sustainability

"Me and my seven kids are all in favour of sustainability"

"How does that work?"

"Shut up!"
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3445
why would hipsters, i.e. upper-middle-class or mobile-metropolitan young people, be having excess kids?

that goes against the sociology of the entire thing. rich, well-educated people do not have large families.

you have consistently failed to understand the (now very dated) phenomenon of 'the hipster' in years on this forum. it's amazing. you are literally a boomer.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3712
Hipsters...so that Broadway old guy that died a few days ago. Never heard about him before this piece in the NYT came across my desk.
Impromptu Sondheim Wakes Fill Piano Bars With Tears and Tunes
Lines of Stephen Sondheim fans formed outside Marie’s Crisis Cafe in Greenwich Village as news of his death spread. Inside, it was all-Sondheim on the piano.
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/11/27/multimedia/27sondheim-piano-bar3/27sondheim-piano-bar3-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/11/27/multimedia/27sondheim-pianobar7/27sondheim-pianobar7-superJumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp
Hipsters crying over a guy they didn't know who was effectively dead already (90+ years old).

The whole group singing was probably fun if you couldn't care less about the dead guy. I saw this and thought "cool bar". Rather be there with the hipsters than a Nashville country music bar. These hipsters are my people. It's ashame so many of them are gay though.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3445
people who like broadway musicals are definitely not 'hipsters'. sondheim made musicals for drama geeks, basically incredibly self-referential and 'clever' stuff that appeals to the sort of person that joined the HS glee club. again, not even close to what a 'hipster' is.

anyone who leads an alternative lifestyle, is into the arts, is a bit thespian or musical or extroverted, is not de facto a 'hipster'.

it's a little bit embarrassing having to continually work over this term that has been dead and irrelevant for 5, if not 10, years. the 'hipster' was a williamsburg, brooklyn–portland–vancouver type phenomenon. irony, pitchfork/ViCE, appropriations of trucker hats and blue-collar beer like pabst, etc. studied ennui and indifference coupled with being very 'online' and 'woke', if you will. geeks for musicals who idolize/grieve over broadway stars are not fucking hipsters. musicals are nerdy as hell.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3712

uziq wrote:

anyone who leads an alternative lifestyle, is into the arts, is a bit thespian or musical or extroverted, is not de facto a 'hipster'.
Right they could just be members of the HEGS community

Hipster-Emo-Goth-Scene (HEGS)
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3445
lol. never heard that term before.

musicals people are basically band geeks. hipsters are into alternative music and underground scenes. like your goth or your emo or your punk or whatever. musicals are hardly complementary to that.

they’re nerds. not in a denigratory way. i mean that’s the immediate stereotype. even hamilton with its ebonics and rapping couldn’t bring musicals into the sphere of ‘cool’ underground cultures and hipsterdom. sondheim fans are more likely to be into Cats than Animal Collective.

how are you so out of touch with your own generation?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3712
I made that term up just now. That's my community. I am part of the H.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3445
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n24 … on-omicron

excellent, level-headed write-up on omicron from my go-to authority throughout this pandemic. worth reading (1500 words only).

e.g.

The rationale for the travel ban is that the majority of cases are thought to be in Southern Africa. There hasn’t been much SGTF elsewhere, and it’s estimated that the variant originated some time between late September and October. Thanks to surveillance in South Africa, we have caught this very quickly. There are, however, cases in the UK and elsewhere without obvious connections to Southern Africa. Restricting travel will reduce the number of cases that start a new Omicron wave, but it won’t prevent it. It’s a delaying tactic, and whether it is justified depends on what we do with the borrowed time. As Tulio de Oliveira, one of the leading South African scientists working on Covid, pointed out, ‘border restrictions deter nations from alerting the world to future variants. They will also slow down urgent research because few planes carrying cargo – including lab supplies needed for sequencing – are now arriving in South Africa.’ I hope the restrictions will be short term; if not they will be short-sighted.

As I write, knowledge of the Omicron variant has been in the public domain for ten days. It has gone from being a furrow in the brow of a worried virologist to a global threat in a very short time. There are a lot of unanswered questions. What about severity: might it be ‘milder’? What about lateral flow tests: will they still detect it? What about the antivirals: will they still work? Where did it come from: human or animal? Most important: will the vaccines still work?

Let’s tackle that last one first. The vaccines will definitely still work, we just don’t know to what extent. If you haven’t yet had your third dose, get it as soon as you reasonably can. If you’ve not had your first dose, get it today. South African scientists have already posted a pre-print showing that Omicron appears more likely to infect previously infected people – the first empirical confirmation that this variant will at least partly escape immunity. It’s very early days to assess the extent to which it escapes, but it would be a major surprise if it wasn’t substantially less well neutralised by antibodies generated by the vaccines. Researchers (including the team I work with at the Crick Institute) are rushing to quantify this. The first studies may report in a matter of days, and we will begin to get an idea of just how bad it could be.

Last edited by uziq (2021-12-11 01:50:35)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6098|eXtreme to the maX
Right so we need to allow unconstrained global travel because researchers need a crate of material.

I'm fine with delaying tactics, its about all we have. If travel everywhere is constrained no-one is victimised.

I mean, why wear masks? Its just a delaying tactic which slows down transmission, we want to speed up transmission so we get to a harmless variant quicker right?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-12-11 03:01:58)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3445

Dilbert_X wrote:

Right so we need to allow unconstrained global travel because researchers need a crate of material.

I'm fine with delaying tactics, its about all we have. If travel everywhere is constrained no-one is victimised.

I mean, why wear masks? Its just a delaying tactic which slows down transmission, we want to speed up transmission so we get to a harmless variant quicker right?
except travel bans aren't a 'delaying tactic' for you, are they? and they never have been? they are an end-in-itself.

you've hinted before that you think that travel bans can snuff out new variants or even, if complied with globally, exterminate covid. not a single public health official or government in the world think this is conceivable. and yet you still rage about travel and seriously suggest that rapid and severe travel bans can in any way affect the outcome of this thing. all i have maintained is that they CANNOT.

i've said multiple times that lockdowns and severe restrictions make sense in localized, highly targeted manners, as long as they are to buy time. i have explicitly said that we should be using WFH orders and travel bans to roll-out much-needed booster campaigns. you, on the other hand, have elevated travel into an idée fixe and all the while pour skepticism on the efficacy of vaccines.

so who is smart? not you, old boy.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6098|eXtreme to the maX
Well masks aren't going to snuff out covid, why do we bother?

i've said multiple times that lockdowns and severe restrictions make sense in localized, highly targeted manners
Why not compartmentalise the world then? Country by country, state by state.
It makes far more sense than lockdowns.

Here the state has opened up and business has crashed. We were doing great with isolation, life was normal, now no-one will go out for fear of getting caught in the pingdemic caused by people travelling for wholly spurious reasons.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Larssen
Member
+99|1880
Oh my jesus are we still arguing travel bans after 300 pages and almost 2 years
uziq
Member
+492|3445
lmao .. after china and NZ totally failed, dilbert still thinks we can simply ‘compartmentalise’ the world. omicron is everywhere and the engineer is still talking about it like it’s simply practicable.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6764|PNW

https://i.imgur.com/2ZlNuKG.jpg

Seen a couple of those. Mostly haven't, with adblocker and not watching TV. Thank goodness.
uziq
Member
+492|3445
"In May 2020, the estimated cost of vaccinating the entire planet was $25 billion. That’s a lot of money. On the other hand, $20.2 billion is what the US military spent on air-conditioning each year in Afghanistan and Iraq. It might turn out to have been a very stupid $25 billion for the rich world to have saved."

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n24 … ck-rattles
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6764|PNW

articles about social welfare, addressing climate change, pandemic relief, build back better: *exist*
conservatives: (clutching purse) "Where is the money going to come from?"
US: *nearly $800 billion defense budget*

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