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2021-12-08 17:21:20
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6103|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

  • booster shots improving immunity for ~6 months in the vast majority of the population (i.e. winter booster strategies are viable for the future).
  • mixing AZ/J&J-type traditional vaccines with an mRNA vaccine delivers a particularly strong and resilient form of immunity (i.e. better-designed vaccine programmes are available to us, here and now, without the need for radically revamped vaccines themselve).
  • a third dose of pfizer shows very good results against all known variants (i.e. just getting the same vaccine on a repeated basis, every 6-9 months, will protect you from serious illness and death to a very high likelihood, for the foreseeable).


so i'm not too concerned about this variant spreading and becoming the most dominant. will we need social distancing measures and to pivot to 'emergency' winter-time measures? that's highly likely until everyone gets onboard with these vaccine/booster drives. but we do need to think about the annual winter-time top-up shot becoming a regular fixture of our lives, just like old people trundle along to their local health centre for a flu jab as soon as the cold weather and nasty respiratory illnesses come around. it is prudent and the vaccines really do work.
None of which is going to happen in 2/3rds of the world - so obviously we need to let everyone travel!

omicron right now is the most-mutated strain yet. but it hasn't evaded our vaccine tech and doesn't seem to be killing people at anywhere near the rate of delta, i.e. its viral load or capacity to harm is not as severe. that's a small blessing. a highly mutated strain such as this, though, is evidently straining the reliability of our ability to test/trace and respond effectively. i have also seen news this week that certain sub-strains of omicron are not showing up on our default battery of PCR/LF tests. it's simply too different to be caught in the quick set of filters we have devised for day-to-day testing. our testing, diagnostics and vaccines will have to progress in lock-step with this thing, just as we have been doing with flu for decades now. there is NO other alternative at this point.
Jury is still out on effectiveness of vaccines against omicron, now tests don't pick it up? Terrific.
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2021-12-08 17:41:05
uziq
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public health organizations have been saying for 6+ months that vaccine inequality, which is a symptom of global inequality, is the main liability in this pandemic. until we can get real about distributing vaccines in the global south, and forgetting profit motives/intellectual copyright (which, by the way, have been defended most arduously by the likes of bill gates and his foundation, and world leaders such as angela merkel), then we are literally waiting for the next calamity.

the first-world needs to realize that getting everyone vaccinated isn't an opportunity to gross $10 billion in profits every quarter for the next 5 years: it's a pressing global emergency that, if unaddressed, could lead to millions more avoidable deaths (including knock-on effects in notionally 'safe' first-world countries).

for some reason you weren't apoplectic or incensed by this issue 6 months ago. you're thinking, as usual, in 'I'm Alright, Jack' mode. it's up to the rich nations, where a $2 or $5 or $25 vaccine dose is negligible, and where millions of doses are literally sitting on shelves or going to waste, to distribute vaccines to the rest of the world. this isn't a time for 'well we invented it so why shouldn't we profit?'.

Last edited by uziq (2021-12-08 17:42:15)

2021-12-08 18:38:41
Dilbert_X
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The third world has all the vaccines they can handle, COVAX is overburdened with vaccines as countries can't deliver them so India is cutting production.

Without profit the pharma firms wouldn't exist.
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2021-12-08 19:01:30
unnamednewbie13
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uziq wrote:

dilbert seriously thinks that closing the door to the brown and black hordes of the world is going to magically fix the rank stupidity of his fellow white people. it’s not like the 30-40% of first-world populations which won’t get a vaccine can’t spread it freely, kill each other every winter, and incubate new strains. no. new mutant strains come from dirty, tainted people who live in unhygienic poor developing nations. look at this news article he found about unsanitary conditions in india!

and he thinks he is scientific. jesus christ. kys.
Remember the German guy mac mentioned the other day who murdered his wife and three young kids because he was afraid of going to jail for his fake vaccine card?

Yeah how about that *closes eyes and points to map of Africa* Angola?
2021-12-08 19:35:47
uziq
Member
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Dilbert_X wrote:

The third world has all the vaccines they can handle, COVAX is overburdened with vaccines as countries can't deliver them so India is cutting production.

Without profit the pharma firms wouldn't exist.
https://blogs.worldbank.org/voices/tack … ity-africa

do some reading instead of taking your entire worldview from australian tabloids and their comment sections.

'covax is overburdened' lmfao. jesus fucking christ, dilbert. yes, i'm sure the reason that africa is hovering around 3% total vaccination is because of, uh, the laziness of blacks or something. 'they aren't evolved to socially cooperate'! oh, wait, i forgot that bit!

Only around 7% of the total doses secured by, or for, LICs in Africa have been delivered to date and the figure for LMICs is around 16%.
The Task Force has also called on vaccine companies to prioritize and fulfill their contracts to the African Vaccine Acquisition Trust (AVAT) and COVAX, accelerate delivery, and share details on month-by-month delivery schedules for vaccine shipments.  Another focus is on working with countries to address trade and regulatory barriers that are posing constraints to the supply and equitable delivery of vaccines. And the Task Force is working with the private sector, governments, and other partners to help diversify production capacity to ensure access to vaccines for low- and lower middle-income countries in Africa and beyond.

At the same time, countries need to be able to deploy vaccines, when they arrive. Our data, publicly available on the Task Force website, indicate that many countries in Africa are administering doses fairly effectively, although more effort is needed, particularly in some of the poorest countries. In Africa’s LICs, around three-fifths of doses delivered have been administered and in LMICs, this ratio is three-fourths.

Last edited by uziq (2021-12-08 19:38:11)

2021-12-08 19:44:51
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6103|eXtreme to the maX
The world's largest vaccine maker will halve the production of its Covid-19 vaccine because it has no fresh orders, its top-ranking executive has said.

India's Serum Institute is sitting on a stockpile of half a billion doses of Covishield, the local version of AstraZeneca's Vaxzevria jab, the firm's CEO Adar Poonawalla told CNBC-TV18.

The jab accounts for 90% of the 1.3 billion doses given so far in India.

India has fully vaccinated half of its eligible adults since January.

"I am in a dilemma which I never imagined to be in. I am producing 250 million doses [of Covishield] a month but the good news is India has covered a large part of the population and we will have completed all our orders to the ministry of health in a week's time," Mr Poonawalla said .

"We have no other orders at hand. So I am going to be reducing the production by at least 50% to begin with on a monthly basis until orders again pick up either in India and the world."

...

Mr Poonawalla said Covax was placing orders "but that's very slow and the uptick will pick up in the second quarter".

He said he was in touch with the leaders of countries which needed more vaccines, but many of them would "sadly" not be able to lift from India unless they improved their logistics and cold storage facilities.

"All these other nations cannot vaccinate at 7 or 8 million beneficiaries a day like India has done. They don't have that kind of infrastructure. Hopefully by this time next year they would have hopefully reached 60-70% of the target for double vaccination," Mr Poonawalla said.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-59574878
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2021-12-08 19:54:16
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3717
For over a month I didn't get any "this student is on home quarantine" emails. Got two in the same day yesterday. Teacher I share a room with got 2 yesterday too. His first. I expect COVID to burn through the students.

I got all 3 shots.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2021-12-08 20:17:10
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6103|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

I share a room
RIP Macbeth
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2021-12-08 20:31:58
uziq
Member
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one of my friends works for the civil service, home office. he tested positive for covid-19 the other day.

there's a new story that a 'civil servant' attended a reception at which the home secretary, priti patel, and other senior ministers were present.

my friend is not available for comment. he is relaying the entire thing to us on whatsapp, however.

"All these other nations cannot vaccinate at 7 or 8 million beneficiaries a day like India has done. They don't have that kind of infrastructure.
er, bingo? the issue is the poorest nations on earth don't necessarily have the means to 'vaccinate effectively', as per the world bank report (which also states that many of them are doing so, with the orders which they do receive). that means rich nations need to step up their humanitarian work and outreach. solving the crises encountered in places in southern africa is in all of our best interests. instead we gawp and mutter darkly about 'brazilians, indians, south africans', ad infinitum.
2021-12-08 21:00:21
Dilbert_X
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Solving the lack of infrastructure in Africa is probably a 200 year problem and a 50 year project.

'Stepping up humanitarian work' Really isn't going to cut it.

Meanwhile we should obviously let Nigerians travel wherever they like.
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2021-12-08 21:21:29
uziq
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no one is talking about upgrading africa's infrastructure. we're talking about specific vaccine outreach programmes, not levelling up entire economies. don't be obtuse.

Meanwhile we should obviously let Nigerians travel wherever they like.
nigeria has reported 2,000 covid deaths during this entire pandemic. their daily case numbers are around 100. nigeria is not one of the LED/LIC countries in the world bank report, being fairly developed and rich relative to the rest of the continent. so what's the problem with nigerians travelling, exactly?

do you need any more fucking proof what a retarded racist you are? africa is very big. africa is very diverse. south africa is not nigeria. korea is not south-east asia.

you are a simpering idiot.

Last edited by uziq (2021-12-08 21:24:33)

2021-12-08 21:38:30
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
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uziq wrote:

specific vaccine outreach programmes
Which won't work without roads or electricity

You are an ignorant hipster.
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2021-12-08 22:02:28
uziq
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you don't have to build a road or provide electricity (?) to supply a vaccine to people.

by 'infrastructure' they mean efficient health systems, centralized bureaucracies, systems of organization, not dams and maglev railways.

didn't we eradicate smallpox on the continent of africa? funny, i don't remember any vast infrastructure projects being necessary.

Last edited by uziq (2021-12-08 22:03:06)

2021-12-08 22:50:34
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6103|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

didn't we eradicate smallpox on the continent of africa? funny, i don't remember any vast infrastructure projects being necessary.
Um well you weren't alive in 1966, if you were you'd remember the smallpox vaccine didn't require refrigeration.

Dilbert_X wrote:

You are an ignorant hipster.
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2021-12-08 23:26:15
Larssen
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For many developing countries - or even seemingly developed countries - getting everyone vaccinated is just a hopeless task honestly. We don't even know the covid numbers that well due to shoddy and dispersed testing infrastructure.

You might be able to get a decent vaccination campaign going in places like Lagos or Addis Abeba, but outside the major cities you'll run into both physical infrastructure issues and organisational problems. I already stated before that getting vaccination above 40% is a bit of a pipedream. Even in some reasonably developed places it's a challenge; I'm already amazed at Brazil'a 65%. The country is enormous with quite some places that are remote and in abject poverty, esp. in the north. Vaccine hesitancy may also be a more prevalent issue.

On top of this there's the issue that the vaccines are only effective for about a year at best. It's not like the polio or smallpox vaccines but more like a flu shot. If we reach 50% fully vaccinated globally at one point in time, that already is a major achievement. And that number would in all likelihood still be mostly due to the richer/developed countries sustaining far higher vaccination percentages.
2021-12-09 00:57:41
Dilbert_X
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You're wrong, according to uziq its a doddle, the west just needs to step up its program.
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2021-12-09 06:38:36
uziq
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i didn't say it was a doddle, i said that many western nations, their leadership, as well as the pharma companies and major players like bill gates have been actively retarding the efforts at widespread vaccination. just because 'total vaccination' is an impossible task, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to distribute vaccines. we are talking about human lives, after all, are we not? why would you advocate for such stringent travel measures in the name of saving lives, but then not care that the vast majority of humanity can't even access a basic vaccine? oh wait, don't answer that question: it's because you're a piece of shit.

i never compared the covid vaccine to smallpox other than to say that we had the collective werewithal before to achieve an insanely hard task. the non-mRNA vaccines only require ordinary refrigeration, which doesn't exactly require deep infrastructure revamps across most of the developed world.

and of course the smallpox vaccine required some form of refrigeration. all active biological cultures do. they just happened to achieve it by freeze-drying it. people still had to navigate, travel, organize and distribute vaccines, etc. this resignation and defeatism over 'the challenge' is more the point i'm raising. if we don't rise to it, covid and its mutations are forever going to be at the gates.
2021-12-09 06:42:09
uziq
Member
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Larssen wrote:

On top of this there's the issue that the vaccines are only effective for about a year at best. It's not like the polio or smallpox vaccines but more like a flu shot. If we reach 50% fully vaccinated globally at one point in time, that already is a major achievement. And that number would in all likelihood still be mostly due to the richer/developed countries sustaining far higher vaccination percentages.
a lot of this comes down to a more or less ignorant attitude that the developing world aren't capable of safely manufacturing and distributing their own vaccines, can't set-up their own facilities and factories, etc. it has been shown to be provably wrong on countless occasions. the same western policy-makers who advocate for top-down distribution of vaccines from the first-world (= their pharmaceutical companies and their coffers) are the same people who said a state like cuba could never invent a working vaccine (they developed about 3 simultaneously).

the idea that africa is incapable of establishing any vaccine manufacturing facilities is a harmful and ultimately self-serving one perpetuated by 'enlightened' technocrats like yourself in europe. i guess 'the economist'-lite pretensions of objectivity and pessimistic withdrawal are more the soup du jour in brussels.

Last edited by uziq (2021-12-09 06:42:46)

2021-12-09 08:20:42
Larssen
Member
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For the record I am against covid vaccine patent protectionism and the for-profit aspect during a global pandemic feels downright evil
2021-12-09 08:50:01
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3717
What have the Africans done for anyone else lately? Why is it constantly this one way transfer of wealth to the third world? At least the Chinese and Indians make stuff.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
2021-12-09 12:36:50
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
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Exploitative labor for chocolate and rare materials. Rare chocolates.
2021-12-09 14:36:02
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6769|PNW

Although by all means, we should definitely continue to extract more wealth from poor people and poor countries. Then our politicians can beat their chests about how our country is the greatest and theirs are just a bunch of shitholes, from the comfort of a convention center a few blocks from where several dozen hobos are encamped along the highway.

What has Africa ever done for us?
Why don't homeless people want to work?
2021-12-09 15:41:58
uziq
Member
+492|3450

SuperJail Warden wrote:

What have the Africans done for anyone else lately? Why is it constantly this one way transfer of wealth to the third world? At least the Chinese and Indians make stuff.
it’s pocket change for the western world and it benefits your ailing parents by helping to reduce the chance of new and more dangerous variants.

no brainer.
2021-12-09 16:01:32
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6103|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

i didn't say it was a doddle, i said that many western nations, their leadership, as well as the pharma companies and major players like bill gates have been actively retarding the efforts at widespread vaccination. just because 'total vaccination' is an impossible task, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to distribute vaccines. we are talking about human lives, after all, are we not? why would you advocate for such stringent travel measures in the name of saving lives, but then not care that the vast majority of humanity can't even access a basic vaccine? oh wait, don't answer that question: it's because you're a piece of shit.

i never compared the covid vaccine to smallpox other than to say that we had the collective werewithal before to achieve an insanely hard task. the non-mRNA vaccines only require ordinary refrigeration, which doesn't exactly require deep infrastructure revamps across most of the developed world.

and of course the smallpox vaccine required some form of refrigeration. all active biological cultures do. they just happened to achieve it by freeze-drying it. people still had to navigate, travel, organize and distribute vaccines, etc. this resignation and defeatism over 'the challenge' is more the point i'm raising. if we don't rise to it, covid and its mutations are forever going to be at the gates.
You seem confused.

Yes, the developed world has refrigeration, a lot of the undeveloped world doesn't and does need an infrastructure revamp.

Delivering a vaccine which requires refrigeration at all stages of delivery is completely different from one which only needs to be prepared at the factory.

Just delivering anything to all corners of Africa would be difficult, and I'm sure you know that wasn't done with the smallpox vaccine.
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2021-12-09 16:04:01
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6103|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

What have the Africans done for anyone else lately? Why is it constantly this one way transfer of wealth to the third world? At least the Chinese and Indians make stuff.
it’s pocket change for the western world and it benefits your ailing parents by helping to reduce the chance of new and more dangerous variants.

no brainer.
Its simply not going to happen, smallpox took eleven years, but this needs to be done in about six months.

Africa is going to spit out new variants forever, and we can expect vaccine-proof variants soon.

Just think, if China and Fauci had come clean on day one this could have been contained to Wuhan.
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