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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,937|5894|USA

SuperJail Warden wrote:

The "cuddling" public workers part is a trip. I am more annoyed about the aggression people are displaying towards non-vaxed people.

That Breitbart article about liberals wanting conservatives to die of COVID had a partial point. It was something like "Liberals are setting up a situation where you either get COVID or feel like a cuck for giving into their demands". The guy who said "their incentive is their paycheck" is contributing to that feeling.

Yes, it sucks that there are people who can't even be bothered to help themselves but it is important that people don't feel bullied or come down upon. This is basic classroom management worker management. Combining mandates with better work conditions or pay is a good way for everyone to 'save face'. But instead we seem to be doing culture war and authoritarianism.
Wow, uh. So antivaxxers have been picketing elementary schools and harassing/stalking children and parents who are escorting children.

Shutting down clinics:

Georgia anti-vaxxers shut down inoculation clinic after harassing healthcare workers
https://news.yahoo.com/georgia-anti-vax … 22399.html


At a breast cancer clinic:

Anti-Mask Protester Punches Masked Cancer Patient in Front of Medical Clinic (VIDEO)
https://lawandcrime.com/caught-on-video … nic-video/
(here for more videos, and in more outraged terms bringing up the qanon signs and supposed proud boys participation)

It was later suggested that the cancer patient maced and struck didn't actually have cancer.

“Ask her why she was out there counter protesting us and getting in our faces?” Bagheri wondered aloud.  “If she’s so worried about her cancer what is she doing there? She being so aggressive? I wonder how much money she got paid to do this. Crisis actor.”
"What is a breast cancer patient…doing at a breast cancer clinic." Can't make it up.

You love putting single mothers in danger. You don’t care about children. You will dox places where I teach kids because you like to hurt kids. You guys are truly sick people!  You know that lady doesn’t have cancer. She’s antifa!  A true cancer patient believes it’s dangerous
Links to the tweets in the articles. Big ol' twitter fight.

I can only guess that you're playing devil's advocate to keep things interesting, since there's no Jay around to speak from the bottom of his heart. Vaccines were rather dragged into the current culture-war state, which is where the meme of someone's tombstone reading "owned the libs" has its roots. "The Dems want us conservatives to die of covid (also covid still isn't real, page 5)," right-wing sources. There are probably people who wish that the crazy qanon anti-vax nutters would hurry up and die from covid so that the rest of us can move on, but I imagine any of this supposed satisfaction at each death stems from a state of exhaustion with the pandemic and dealing with people actively fighting against efforts to wrangle the virus into better controlled state.

"Bullying," rofl.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+510|2842
I got my flu shot today.

I have little sympathy for anti-vax people (mule people). The pig people yelling at children make me glad to live in a blue state that is high vax and requiring vaccinations. In the system we have, we just don't have the ability to force people to take vaccines. Of course we should limit their ability to go to schools, have certain jobs, and enjoy some events. But that will only make mule men dig in harder. I want them to get vaccines but we need more carrot instead of just stick.

Just stick clearly isn't going to get us to higher vaccination rates.
"The carrot is not dying of COVID". Like 25% of the population has a learning disability. They can't conceptualized death or make the connection between actions and consequences. You need to do something to get the holdouts to not feel like the stupid zoo creatures they are.

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/red-petting-zoo-dispenser-holds-cent-feed-hungry-animals-happy-goats-looking-food-park-goers-79074400.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,937|5894|USA

For the worst of the stick-it-to-the-dems antivaxxers, that ship has sailed. Some conservative politicians have spun 180 to plead with their constituents to go get the jab. In response, gradeschools and cancer clinics are being picketed.

Authoritarianism, as you put it, may be a viable recourse. I would rather have people grumbling as they get their mandated shots than continue being a risk to the public and economy.

Bullying, lol.

Remember this classic?
https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/stat … de-rant%2F
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,937|5894|USA

Fox of all people explaining stuff as you would to a child:

History of vaccine mandates in the United States
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/histo … ted-states
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+510|2842
At what point do you call out sick nowadays? Are we still doing "if you feel sick stay home" or is everyone required to come in again?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+426|2575
https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN2021102500 … l/national

SEOUL, Oct. 25 (Yonhap) -- South Korea will gradually phase out coronavirus restrictions starting next month to embrace a new scheme of returning to normal life backed by the rising rate of vaccinations, health authorities said Monday
obviously these crazy asians didn't get the memo that vaccines are minimally effective. it's mad. maybe they, too, are drunk with the false poison of 'freedom'. i am shocked and appalled that a country with such consistently terrible pandemic performance has now made yet another blunder such as 'following the science'.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+510|2842
I am ready for my booster. I have to wait 2 weeks after my flu shot I believe? Still very excited. A booster every 6 months seems fair.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,937|5894|USA

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5229|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20211025002300320?section=national/national

SEOUL, Oct. 25 (Yonhap) -- South Korea will gradually phase out coronavirus restrictions starting next month to embrace a new scheme of returning to normal life backed by the rising rate of vaccinations, health authorities said Monday
obviously these crazy asians didn't get the memo that vaccines are minimally effective. it's mad. maybe they, too, are drunk with the false poison of 'freedom'. i am shocked and appalled that a country with such consistently terrible pandemic performance has now made yet another blunder such as 'following the science'.
My god you're prissy.

You're so obsessed with humanity's two most moronic activities - travel and partying - you can't see the wood for the trees or be bothered to do basic maths.

80% vaccination with a 90% - and fading - effective vaccine does leave at least 28% of the population unprotected.
The 72% who are 'protected' aren't fully protected by a long shot, they're still liable to get infected, can still die and still liable to the impact of various long term complications.

But yeah, open up! Lets make christmas great again!
#Freed Britney !
uziq
Member
+426|2575
i would hardly say that someone who has taken 1 flight in the last 8 years is 'obsessed with travel'. i've never even owned a car. not quite the demographic you're talking about.

south korea, like the united kingdom, already has a plentiful supply of booster shots. why are you so determined to misrepresent how vaccination works? you get a good immunity for a year – even better if you could mix and alternate shot types – and then you get a booster, preferably in the nasty winter season when respiratory illnesses are common. you know, like old people have been doing with the flu since 1952.

The 72% who are 'protected' aren't fully protected by a long shot, they're still liable to get infected, can still die and still liable to the impact of various long term complications
it's almost as if we have oodles of data about this, separated by age and health condition.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_UhWlcWQAMmLYJ?format=png&name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_UiVzAXEAUr3A_?format=png&name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_UjPhlXoAAHafj?format=png&name=large

and yet you want to make out, first that vaccines don't work (because russia!) then that boosters don't work (because israel! although they are working there, argggh!), and now that having a tiny sliver of the population unvaccinatd is some huge liability (aaargh! the under 12s who were exempted from the vaccine drive for safety reasons! they're all gonna dieeeee!)

100% effective immunity to any illness is a shibboleth. it doesn't exist. there will always be some groups who have complications and are particularly susceptible. there will always be variations in the robustness of one's immune response, correlating heavily to age, diet/lifestyle, wealth disparities, etc. the idea that we can make 90% of the population perfectly immune to a respiratory illness is a child's fantasy of control. coronavirus is literally here to stay, it is literally ineradicable. we have covered this many times now. even a tiny island nation like new zealand couldn't eliminate the delta variant from a tiny initial 'cluster' of ONE. that soon became 250+ and now it's out of the box, never to be put back. probably best to start relooking at those vaccines, eh dilbert?

get a clue.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-25 21:39:28)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5229|eXtreme to the maX
OK so Pfizer is about 90%, AZ 80%, I should have used 85% in my calculations.

Why don't you care about the 32% of the population who are unprotected from COVID?

Other precautions have their place, binning them and relying on vaccination alone would be stupid.
#Freed Britney !
uziq
Member
+426|2575
moderna has better long-term effectivity than both pfizer and AZ. and, again, there is a beneficial effect to mixing both.

you can easily search this data, but you seem pretty impervious to actual data. you prefer your doomsayer routine.

nobody is proposing abandoning all precautions. just that precautions have to be proportionate. banning all global travel or making all businesses close at 10pm because the under 12s and 8% of adults are unvaccinated is not 'proportionate' in the slightest. korea won't be abandoning the use of (a) masks in public places, (b) social distancing measures on public transport and offices, (c) mass testing for large-scale events and entertainment, (d) PCR testing and vaccination requirements for international travel, etc. all that is here to stay, for the majority of the world, for the foreseeable future.

but no sane government at this point is pursuing 'zero covid'; no sane government is proposing closing international borders indefinitely. you're still going on about 'if only we close everything for a month, covid would disappear globally; it worked for medieval europe' (it didn't, the plague ravaged europe for 300 years even with entire city-states closing down). it's a child's fantasy. you reason like a marsupial.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-25 21:55:26)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5229|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

you can easily search this data, but you seem pretty impervious to actual data. you prefer your doomsayer routine.
I was using the data you posted.

nobody is proposing abandoning all precautions. just that precautions have to be proportionate. banning all global travel or making all businesses close at 10pm because the under 12s and 8% of adults are unvaccinated is not 'proportionate' in the slightest.
~30% of people are effectively unprotected. You're smug because you've had two doses, maybe you're one of the 10-20% of fully vaccinated who aren't really protected at all and could still die or have your lungs and brain chewed away.
Is that work risking so morons can go to raves and dumbfucks can gawp at monkeys doing tricks and sit in Irish pubs in Phuket?
#Freed Britney !
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5229|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

the plague ravaged europe for 300 years even with entire city-states closing down
Ooh I know lets let COVID run rampant for 300 years and hope it gets bored.
it's a child's fantasy. you reason like a marsupial.
Do you think the virus models have been update to account for the fact every pleb has access to cheap air travel?

I'm doubtful.
#Freed Britney !
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5229|eXtreme to the maX
We can look forward to a brave new future of fake vaccine certificates and many many new virus variants.

Airlines must confirm that the proof of vaccination comes from an "official source" and was received at least two weeks prior.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59044856

How dumb are these people.
#Freed Britney !
uziq
Member
+426|2575
it's really not hard. here you need to be issued with an official authentication link in the NHS vaccine app. that app is tied to your personal ID/face-ID.

for any large event in the UK that someone wants to enter, they have to go through an NHS portal to take a test, upload their test to the NHS and have the result pinged through to the (face-ID authenticated) mobile app. only officially government-approved test vendors' results are recognised on the NHS app.

all that will happen with airline travel is the same as what has happened in an improvised way for most world governments/immigration services: they will ask to see your vaccination status and test results on a 'nationally recognised' avenue. they won't be looking through the small print of your fake test certificates or your bogus vaccination paperwork at the fucking departure gate ffs. most every advanced country will have an official app or e-certificate that is certified in some way.

the NHS in UK and NHIS in korea have both pretty quickly devised highly authenticated systems on phone apps. you can't fake those because they're tied to your actual national insurance number and face ID. bongggggg.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-26 02:45:08)

uziq
Member
+426|2575

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

the plague ravaged europe for 300 years even with entire city-states closing down
Ooh I know lets let COVID run rampant for 300 years and hope it gets bored.
it's a child's fantasy. you reason like a marsupial.
Do you think the virus models have been update to account for the fact every pleb has access to cheap air travel?

I'm doubtful.
are you serious? you think pandemic modelling undertaken in the 1990s or 2000s didn't take into account air travel or globalized cities? how do you think  countries like korea and taiwan managed so effectively to counteract their epidemics, whilst also still keeping partially opened borders to travellers and citizens? because they already had oodles of data and predictive modelling from SARS/MERS, you idiot.

you have this weird fixation – a tabloid-type demonization – wherein you think the risk to international borders is all about proles on package holidays and backpackers flouncing off to phuket. it's so obviously not. the risk of global contagion today comes from the same sources as it did in your beloved medieval era: international trade and the movement of labour and goods. chinese workers took covid to italy and seeded it in europe, not tourists waving DLSRs around venice. and even if you shut down 'inessential' travel, huge risks still remain in the logistics and supply of goods, which also obviously involve potential human carriers. the world system operates on migrant and underclass labour, white or grey or black market, take your pick. globalized societies have people from many, many backgrounds; families are separated across borders, across continents, especially those of working-age and who might be travelling to other countries to find work and support families (that's what happened with australia's indians, wasn't it, not people going to get pissed at goa?)

the crux of the issue with the UK's pandemic response was that (a) the current leadership were piss-poor at implementing the previous simulation's recommendations and (b) said previous simulations were overly predicated on a flu-type illness. covid is markedly not flu when it comes to transmissibility. korea and taiwan had rigorous and up-to-date procedues in place for a SARS-type illness, which covid-19 is very similar to.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-26 02:54:36)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5229|eXtreme to the maX
Except pretty well all international transmission of the Wuhan Bio-Weapon has not come through bananas or boxes of rivets its been delivered by travelers, mostly tourists.
I mean, whats more likely to deliver a respiratory disease? A cardboard box or a spluttering, spitting gawper?

Wasn't it Chinese tourists who delivered it to Italy in the first place?

The crux of the issue with the UK's pandemic response was they continued to allow uncontrolled international travel while the country was supposedly in lockdown delivering a heft dose of the Delta variant.

Of the 133 infections reported over the past week, 106 cases were found to be related to tourist activities involving a total of 13 tour groups or self-driving tours, Wu Liangyou, deputy director of the National Health Commission (NHC) disease control bureau, told a briefing on Sunday.
...

Li Mingde, an academic adviser at the Tourism Research Center under the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, told the Global Times on Sunday that this round of epidemic resurgence demonstrates that tourism is a key channel for virus transmission, as it always comes with clusters and huge flows of people across the country.

With Northwest China's Gansu Province suspending all tourism-related activities amid increasing COVID-19 infections, as of Sunday, at least five provinces including Beijing halted cross-provincial tourism-related activities after the Ministry of Culture and Tourism issued a new announcement on Saturday requiring travel agencies, in a circuit-breaker measure, to suspend cross-provincial tourism-related activities in places where medium- or high-risk areas are located and announced.

Adopting a circuit-breaker mechanism in the tourism industry amid an epidemic complies with China's zero-tolerance policy, and is an emergency measure to ensure that virus transmission can be promptly cut off and tamed, Li said.
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202110/1237159.shtml

Tourism really is an unproductive zero-sum game and something most of the world can live without.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-10-26 18:54:57)

#Freed Britney !
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5229|eXtreme to the maX
Here our genius govt is planning to make Sydney-Delhi one of the first routes to re-open - fucking morons.
#Freed Britney !
uziq
Member
+426|2575
covid was seeded in europe by chinese workers at an italian factory. migrant labour on an exchange with italy.

yes, the U.K. was ridiculously sluggish to respond. the delta variant originated and arrived a whole year and a half later and didn’t come from a tourist hotspot, so i’m not sure how you’re casually eliding the cases there. (not a lot of cheery holidaymakers decided to fly off to the world's then worst-afflicted pandemic zone in the middle of winter for 2 weeks, dilbert; arrivals from india weren't returning from 2 weeks of curry-tasting and full moon parties.)

great job referencing international tourism on a story regarding china. they’ve had totally closed borders to the sort of tourism you’re talking about for the whole pandemic. the story concerns domestic tourism and the free movement of chinese citizens from one province to another. great job, dingbat. it’s not like i haven’t been telling you for months that, EVEN IF we closed all borders, each individual nation itself couldn’t hunker down to eliminate covid. china has had those province-wide lockdowns you keep fetishising; new zealand had a huge lockdown following ONE case and lost control of delta domestically.

it’s almost … as if … zero covid … is an impossibility … and your inane fixations on tourism is irrelevant.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-26 19:17:42)

uziq
Member
+426|2575

Dilbert_X wrote:

Here our genius govt is planning to make Sydney-Delhi one of the first routes to re-open - fucking morons.
it's almost like i've been saying ... and the world system involves in its very structure huge migrations of people from one country to another for work. multi-generational families split across continents. that's the world we are living in. the australian government are prioritizing the indian air corridor because ... shock and horror ... lots of australian citizens or workers have families split across this route. not because australian's can't wait to go and work on their tans in delhi.

it's the cost of you enjoying cheap and plentiful taxi drivers for the last 20 years, chap.

this is why controlling a global pandemic is highly complex and why closing borders indefinitely is not sustainable. it would separate families indefinitely and cause untold human suffering. it's not 'selfish tourists' travelling between india–australia in 95% of cases, is it? it's people wanting to attend funerals of loved ones or to be near vulnerable parents, etc.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-26 19:21:23)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,757|5229|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

great job referencing international tourism on a story regarding china. they’ve had totally closed borders to the sort of tourism you’re talking about for the whole pandemic. the story concerns domestic tourism and the free movement of chinese citizens from one province to another. great job, dingbat. it’s not like i haven’t been telling you for months that, EVEN IF we closed all borders, each individual nation itself couldn’t hunker down to eliminate covid. china has had those province-wide lockdowns you keep fetishising; new zealand had a huge lockdown following ONE case and lost control of delta domestically.
They're both tourism you vegetable, now China has shut down internal tourism as well as international tourism - clearly they aren't dumbfucks.

it's almost like i've been saying ... and the world system involves in its very structure huge migrations of people from one country to another for work
Well not really.

Now we'll have a wave of indians with falsified vaccine certificates bringing a new wave of covid here.
#Freed Britney !
uziq
Member
+426|2575
are you reading what i'm saying? i said shutting down the obvious, easy-to-blame international tourism industry won't eliminate covid, or even help to eliminate it on a country-by-country basis. i have literally been telling you that this fantasy of 'closed borders', 'medieval quarantine cities', etc, is NOT working. i told you why it didn't work in the medieval era: TRADE and the necessary movement of goods and labour. NOT leisure industry or tourism, which is what you keep ranting about when you talk about 'selfish' individuals. or are port-workers and farmers 'selfish tourists' now too?

holy fuck how determined are you to miss this point. china has accepted NO inessential or tourist travel for over 1.5 years. and yet they have the delta variant there. make you think. maybe some selfish indians snuck over a border somewhere to get a delicious chinese beer?

Ejin Banner in North China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region has come under the spotlight amid the latest epidemic resurgence, as almost all the domestically transmitted cases were part of tour groups traveling to the county-level division in the region that borders Mongolia, the latest transmission chains showed.
so your story basically concerns bored han chinese who have been cooped up in locked-down industrial cities in the mainland for 2 years going north into the chinese-ruled 'autonomous zone' of mongolia to have a look around, and took their city illness with them. amazing. BAN ALL FLIGHTS! oh wait, china already have. BAN ALL INESSENTIAL TRAVEL WITHIN A COUNTRY! then, you say. okay: fair enough. extremely draconian and unsustainable, but let china do that; they don't have many scruples about indefinite population control, after all.

but, er, china has been using those province-wide lockdowns you keep fetishising, in tandem with some of the most advanced tech-surveillance and biometric data of any country on the planet; new zealand had a huge blanket lockdown following ONE case and lost control of delta domestically. so if a tiny island nation and the world's most powerful authoritarian state can't eliminate the delta variant using severe measures ... maybe ... it's not as easy as you keep making out? just a thought, cupcake.

also, from the same article, LMAO. do you even read the (dubious, chinese media) sources you link?

It has been confirmed that the virus that resulted in the ongoing outbreaks came from overseas, but how it entered China remains unknown, Wang Guangfa, a respiratory expert at Peking University First Hospital, told the Global Times on Sunday. However, it's worth noting that Ejina Banner is at the intersection point of different transmission chains where the China-Mongolia port is located, he said.

Some health experts reached by the Global Times in earlier interviews also said that possibilities of confirmed cases becoming infected in the port cannot be ruled out, given the epidemic overseas has not been fully contained.

"It's getting cold in northern regions, which means the virus can exist longer on the surface of objects or in different environments. There is also evidence showing cold-chain system is helping transmit the virus," Wang said, noting that all these factors need to be taken into consideration.
holy fuck they are literally repeating, word-for-word, what i'm saying about international transmission and trade. those goddamn selfish cold-chain supply system workers!!!

Dilderp wrote:

Except pretty well all international transmission of the Wuhan Bio-Weapon has not come through bananas or boxes of rivets its been delivered by travelers, mostly tourists.
I mean, whats more likely to deliver a respiratory disease? A cardboard box or a spluttering, spitting gawper?

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-26 20:07:22)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+510|2842
Just get vaccinated. If you test positive for COVID, have them right you a script for the antivirals pills, vitamin D supplements, and whatever that steroid was. The pandemic is functionally over at Thai point.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+426|2575
i love how dilbert flip-flops from 'you have an unhealthy obsession with partying and travel to go gawp at things' to 'that's not what i mean!' as soon as i introduce the rather more complex realities of a globalized world.

don't worry macbeth. we just have to shut down the entire world system, and rich western nations can isolate ourselves for several bitter months. it'll be our own stalingrad of sterilization. we'll suffer every economic hit, every blow to business, every injury to mental health and physical debilitation, to see through our heroic task: zero covid. and then, when we have achieved this superhuman task, we just have to perfectly isolate ourselves from the entire global south and 2/3rds of the world's population, for the next 5 years, without letting in a single case accidentally (like new zealand did, those incompetent blunderers!)

it'll be easy. hipsters just have to stop eating avocados, indians have to stop coming to white countries to molest innocent girls, and selfish backpackers have to quit their full moon parties. that's it. problem licked.

I mean, whats more likely to deliver a respiratory disease?
he knows a lot about the transmission of respiratory diseases. it's why he compared them to leprosy, a contact-only skin disease, and which he seemed to think had to be isolated on island as the only recourse. i mean, even pre-scientifc medieval societies could intuit that leprosy involved close contact, and yet dilbert was invoking it as an example of a disease well-dealt-with by 'none of that bloody 1.5 m social distancing rubbish!' i wonder what historical and epidemiological insights he has for us next? perhaps the medieval 'dancing sickness' was caused by selfish ravers?

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/art … 20-01418-7

These findings demonstrate SARS-CoV-2 can remain infectious for significantly longer time periods than generally considered possible. These results could be used to inform improved risk mitigation procedures to prevent the fomite [i.e. surface contact] spread of COVID-19.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-26 20:19:24)

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