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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,752|5181|eXtreme to the maX
Erm except it doesn't, seems to have made marginal differences in many countries and in Russia the vaccines seem to increase the death rate.
#FreeBritney
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,925|5707|949

Some stats:

current 7 day average in my county is 2.3x the rate of the same time last year.

current 7 day average in my state is 2x the rate of the same time last year.

current 7 day average for the USA is 2.15x the rate of the same time last year.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+500|2795

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Some stats:

current 7 day average in my county is 2.3x the rate of the same time last year.

current 7 day average in my state is 2x the rate of the same time last year.

current 7 day average for the USA is 2.15x the rate of the same time last year.
More people died of COVID this years than last year. I noticed that the other day when responding to Newbie and his calls for broad vaccine mandates. At this point we should just give up.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,752|5181|eXtreme to the maX
https://i.imgur.com/jZNF5mu.png

https://i.imgur.com/IUHwgfi.png

"Everything is going terrific, this is the right time to remove all restrictions, hospitals will cope no problem, time to get business moving, lets make Australia great again!"
#FreeBritney
uziq
Member
+417|2527

Dilbert_X wrote:

Erm except it doesn't, seems to have made marginal differences in many countries and in Russia the vaccines seem to increase the death rate.
you are completely illiterate.

the russian and chinese vaccines have not been through the same scrutiny or process of approval. reports as to their efficacy and performance vary. it doesn't help that russia and china have both consistently 'cooked the books' on their case/death numbers. in short: we have no idea.

for the western vaccines we have PLENTY of evidence. there have been numerous longitudinal studies at this point of the efficacy of pfizer/biontech/moderna/astrazeneca/johnson&johnson. what you are peddling is a TOTAL nonsense. the idea that they make 'marginal difference' and 'seem to increase the death rate' is fucking insane.

the UK has completely decoupled the daily case number from serious illness and death. which is the ENTIRE point of vaccination: not to reduce cases or to eradicate the disease, but to stop it from seriously harming people. that's always been the best-case scenario and it is WORKING. deaths used to increase in proportion with cases; now they do not.

add this to much better hospital care and antiviral treatments, with better understanding than this time 1-2 years ago, and the picture is indeed much more positive than you make out. companies like merck will soon bring on-line new pill-based antiviral treatments which should work handsomely in tandem with widespread vaccination and seasonal boosters. in effect, we have the same arsenal and treatment programme available to us as with seasonal influenza, plus some incredibly promising pills which should mitigate its worst effects (as opposed to just taking a tylenol w/ caffeine whenever you catch a cold or flu).

about the most damning thing you could say is that this winter, 2021–2022, could be one more crunchpoint with a fair bit of nastiness. there's enough unvaccinated and vulnerable people still out there to overwhelm health systems once again. the race is on. and, probably in countries like the states, bipartisanship and general fucking insanity in the populace have made this winter again a worrisome prospect. but that's hardly because 'vaccines only marginally work and in fact might increase the death rate'. ffs.

you persistently try to misrepresent vaccines here, which is fucking odd considering your 'man of science' status. vaccines work. mRNA works. traditional vaccines work.

australian case/hospitalization images
australia currently has 58% full vaccination. that is NOT enough considering the potential for serious illness with the delta variant in younger age brackets. the australian government – rightfully – proposed 70-80% full vaccination as the 'transition' and 'consolidation' phases, to 'exit' from the current covid system. this is entirely in line with the general picture. want to know what it looks like in a country with ~70% fully vaccinated?

https://i.imgur.com/nuJSOZ8.png

in short, shut up and read some studies. we are admittedly playing catch-up in our treatment of delta, but that's entirely to be expected. viruses mutate and our existing vaccines become less and less effective. it's been the same picture with flu for decades. eventually we will tweak the boosters to be better at beating delta/sigma/charlie/echo/foxtrot and life will continue. again, we don't ONLY have vaccines to rely upon at this point. public health measures + social distancing + antivirals + vaccines + better hospital treatment w/ steroids etc. and covid hasn't spawned any nightmare-scenario mutations yet, in over 2 years of firestorming around the globe, which probably means that it doesn't have any further nasty surprises for us. virologically speaking, it is a pretty simple beast with few 'moving parts'.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-06 19:27:39)

uziq
Member
+417|2527

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

i think it's less of a james bond plot and more an indictment of the way that certain types of science are conducted without due process and proper supervision. this isn't 'rogue agent daszak and evil chinese empire'. it's the american NIH – the main grant-awarding body in all of scientific research – and the department of defense. it's grant proposals written and massaged in such a way so that highly controversial research will get funding without proper auditing or risk management. this is how a lot of modern-day science is done. it's international, it's collaborative, and more than one superpower are interested in it.
I've read somewhere quotes from I think Daszak and others basically saying "lets get the money then we'll do whatever the fuck we want"

Contracting a Chinese lab to do bio-weapons research is fucking insanity, I would not be at all surprised to learn Daszak and Fauci are apocalypse nuts.
lots of scientific research is international and collaborative. chinese scientists work with american or european scientists all the time. the pretense of being 'apolitical' and the idealism of 'open scientific endeavour' is all on the scientists and their institutions. they promote that stuff.

US/UK universities invite chinese graduate students (and funding) in the full knowledge that they're probably leaking results and IP back to the chinese state. huge funding and grant award bodies collaborate with chinese researchers all the time. china is the biggest investor in scientific research now, especially in physics. this is hardly an 'isolated' incident.

again, you're making it a personal story of rogues and villains and a movie thriller plot. but this is business-as-usual for high-level scientific research.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-06 19:24:47)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,752|5181|eXtreme to the maX
Its business as usual for high level research - conducted with chinese involvement

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2021-10-06 19:31:12)

#FreeBritney
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,752|5181|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

in short, shut up and read some studies. .
Plenty of countries with 80% vaccination are doing quite poorly, Britain is one of the few doing better - as likely to be due to better treatment than vaccine effectiveness.
#FreeBritney
uziq
Member
+417|2527

Dilbert_X wrote:

Its business as usual for high level research - conducted with chinese involvement
which is a substantial amount of high-level research. do you have any idea what % proportion of papers i publish are from research teams at leading chinese institutions? tsinghua university is at least as prevalent as MIT in top journals thesedays.

it doesn't help that austerity-struck western nations have cut research funding to shreds whilst china has juiced theirs up to world-beating levels.

Plenty of countries with 80% vaccination are doing quite poorly, Britain is one of the few doing better - as likely to be due to better treatment than vaccine effectiveness.
about the worst thing you can say is that the vaccines are not a magic silver bullet for this pandemic, which was realistically known by everyone with a clue all along. vaccines are there to mitigate serious illness/death, and they are doing that. i've made this point many times before, but: a 50-60% effective flu vaccine has been considered 'good' for decades. longitudinal studies of mRNA vaccines put them at 75-88% effectivity over the first year. that's an astonishing result and we should be very, very glad for the vaccines.

you saying 'they only marginally work and might increase death' is just insultingly moronic. stop.

portugal has the 2nd highest rate of vaccination in the world right now. let's look at their relation between new cases/deaths:
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coro … /portugal/
oh. looks like it's working there to me.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-06 19:46:37)

KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,925|5707|949

The number of deaths in California and the US are also 2x or more compared to thus time last year. The death rate in my county isn't significant enough for comparison. We are hovering right around 60% vaccinated.
uziq
Member
+417|2527
you also have to consider the wider epidemiological picture. america has some of the highest rates of diabetes and heart disease in the world – two prime comorbidities for covid-19. to look at the american stats and conclude 'the vaccines don't work!' is idiotic.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,925|5707|949

Oh I'm not saying vaccines don't work. I think the exposure rates now are far higher than last year where lockdowns and semi-lockdowns were common. But we need a much higher vaccination rate and vaccines that last longer or the new normal is going to be hundreds of thousands of dead every year in the US.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,923|5847|USA

Anti-vax murder spree, story is totally nuts.

Anti-vaxxer killed pharmacist brother and sister-in-law for ‘killing people’ with the Covid shot
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl … 5.html?amp

Court docs: Maryland man arrested for murders wanted to confront pharmacist brother with 'government poisoning people with COVID vaccines'
https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/ … 1ba11cb6a7

"A little misinformation never harmed anyone!"
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+500|2795
I saw that headline. I totally got it mixed up with the guy who shot the nurse at a pharmacy.

Fratricide. What a crappy way to lose your entire family support network.

How do you think a family would react to someone sleeping with their adult cousin?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,923|5847|USA

Depends on if the family lives where that sort of thing isn't just stereotype.

Elsewhere, another one of these:

Fifty Shades of Whey
@davenewworld_2
Anti-vaxxers in Beverly Hills harass children outside of an elementary school
https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/stat … 67844?s=21

(video in link)

Couple replies (I guess) clipped where I found this link:


lol
uziq
Member
+417|2527

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Anti-vax murder spree, story is totally nuts.

Anti-vaxxer killed pharmacist brother and sister-in-law for ‘killing people’ with the Covid shot
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl … 5.html?amp

Court docs: Maryland man arrested for murders wanted to confront pharmacist brother with 'government poisoning people with COVID vaccines'
https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/ … 1ba11cb6a7

"A little misinformation never harmed anyone!"
dilbert: ppl are dumb, idIocrAcy.
also dilbert: the vaccines are, in fact, possibly increasing death.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,923|5847|USA

Would take a lot of nurse-murdering nutters to get to the point where that is literally true.

It would be nice if messy hair/beard guys would appear on more positive news stories to offset the Kaczynskis and bin Ladens and crazy, murdering hobo mofos.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+500|2795
Do you think his Corvette is for sale?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,923|5847|USA

Do you think it'll be crushed to foil collectors?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,752|5181|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

dilbert: ppl are dumb, idIocrAcy.
also dilbert: the vaccines are, in fact, possibly increasing death.
Vaccines seem to be making no difference in Israel, in Russia they're making it worse.
#FreeBritney
uziq
Member
+417|2527
except that's not even close to being true.

https://covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/il

look at the relation between new cases/deaths. for the first 2 waves, it was pretty much a mirror-image. now, following vaccination, the proportion of deaths has basically been halved. 2nd wave daily cases peak: 58k. daily deaths peak: 382. 3rd wave after mass vaccination rollout: 65k cases, 203 deaths.

israel was a canary-in-the-mine for the reduced efficacy of vaccines against the delta variant. we know this. we know we will need boosters. but to say that vaccines are 'making no difference', by cherrypicking your favourite nation and spiritual homeland, of all places, is a nonsense. vaccines REDUCE deaths.

to scaremonger about global vaccination efforts based on the russian or chinese vaccines is beyond spurious. they haven't been through the same approval and haven't been developed with anything like the same transparency. all of the vaccines which are being mass-distributed at present in the west have been RIGOROUSLY tested. so to say 'vaccines might in fact increase deaths' and then gesture feebly towards russia is culpably moronic. you are contributing to vaccine skepticism, which is total fucking bullshit my guy.

the real 'issue' with vaccines is the piteous levels of vaccination in the global south. i think average vaccination levels are hovering somewhere around 5% for the african continent. we need to work on global roll-outs and on bringing everyone up to the same level. if there are to be any more scary or vaccine-defeating mutations, they're going to come from the global south where its spread is basically unmitigated. that's the real pressing concern with vaccines, NOT 'oh actually maybe they don't work at all'.

Last edited by uziq (2021-10-07 20:54:58)

uziq
Member
+417|2527
why did you get vaccinated, by the way, if they don't work? plus you've spoken before about how dangerous they are, practically speaking, when you're fine living in isolation on your family compound. very odd, that.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,752|5181|eXtreme to the maX
Never said they don't work, what I've said is 70-80% vaccination is not enough to justify relaxing all restrictions - especially travel.
All I hear from my moron friends is "When can we travel? I want to go to South America, then China, then Europe, then..."

Vaccines + a lot of other things = Effective virus eradication

Vaccines + life as normal =/= Anything really

Britain's figures are not mirrored everywhere.

Russia for example

https://i.imgur.com/1yORDrD.png
#FreeBritney
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,923|5847|USA

Let's not kid ourselves, vaccines are an overwhelmingly important component here. As long as we can keep up with a virus and get the vaccines out to an vast majority of people, then maybe we won't need to shut down the economy every three months and lock people up in their own homes. Things that people definitely will get tired of cooperating with.
uziq
Member
+417|2527
you keep talking about russia, where, for the THIRD time, they are using their own vaccine that has no relation to global vaccination efforts. russia have never shared their true covid data. not cases, certainly not deaths, and next to nothing about their vaccine tech.

again, if your best argument for 'vaccines aren't working' is 'but russia!' then you're really scraping the barrel.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Never said they don't work

Dilbert_X wrote:

Erm except it doesn't, seems to have made marginal differences in many countries
for someone who took me to task for my use of 'prevalent', you're really stretching the meaning of 'marginal difference' there. vaccines have a MUCH more than 'marginal' effect on serious illness and death. that's just a fact. there have been umpteen studies done on this subject over the last 12 months and we have a pretty good consensus on the subject.

mention russia again!

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