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RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,718|5786|Oxferd Ohire
I have not gotten any pimples from masks and I wear one a lot
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
uziq
Member
+406|2501

Dilbert_X wrote:

Mostly it worked out pretty well though, unburdened by decadence.
yes the planned economy and forced urbanization worked really well.

i suggest you read a FUCKING book.

keywords: famine.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2769
We are on the Chinese Civil War here at the Tennessee library I help prep adults for their GED. I was thinking what a shit show it is trying to make sense of China in regards to their rise in the early 21st century.

On the one hand, the Chinese Communist got a tremendous amount of people killed during the civil war, Great Leap Forward, Great Chinese Famine, and Cultural Revolution. On the other hand, I doubt the Nationalist would have put effort into improving general quality of life and industrializing. But then you have to remember that China's economy really took off once the economy was opened up by Deng Xiaoping and his successors. The narrative of China's modern success is a lot more complex than America's.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,920|5681|949

If only there was a place the Kuomintang went where we could test your little theory...

They did a decent job improving QoL and industrializing in Taiwan.

I would argue that the narrative of America's success (or any nation-state) is complex, despite the tendency to ascribe success to a simple platform or policy decision.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,746|5155|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

yes the planned economy and forced urbanization worked really well.

Dilbert_X wrote:

The problem is people who think they're technocratic geniuses are usually just delusional humanities graduates.
#FreeBritney
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2769

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

If only there was a place the Kuomintang went where we could test your little theory...

They did a decent job improving QoL and industrializing in Taiwan.

I would argue that the narrative of America's success (or any nation-state) is complex, despite the tendency to ascribe success to a simple platform or policy decision.
The Kuomintang that ran Taiwan is different than the KMT that would have run an unified China. Wasn't Taiwan like South Korea a total dictatorship up until the 80's?
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,920|5681|949

How are they different? Literally the same group.

Taiwan has a much more stable democracy than South Korea, but that's not saying much. What does that have to do with your argument? Are you saying quality of life and economic success is directly tied to the form of government?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,746|5155|eXtreme to the maX
Hasn't Singapore basically been a one party state forever?
They seem to have done OK with a succession of technocrats
#FreeBritney
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2769

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

How are they different? Literally the same group.

Taiwan has a much more stable democracy than South Korea, but that's not saying much. What does that have to do with your argument? Are you saying quality of life and economic success is directly tied to the form of government?
The same group with hugely different circumstances? The KMT securely in control of mainland China is in a completely different position than a KMT trapped in Taiwan trying to provide a counter example to the CCP.

You agree that material conditions have a strong effect on people's attitudes, culture, and actions? You don't see how the KMT with 75 x times the resources would be different than the one in Taiwan even in the 80's?
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,920|5681|949

Dilbert_X wrote:

Hasn't Singapore basically been a one party state forever?
They seem to have done OK with a succession of technocrats
I like when free market proponents and lolbertarians bring up Singapore as an example, because it's pretty much the antithesis of what westerners think of when referring to liberty, and shows those who pretend to care about FREEEEDOM! are stupid hypocrites.

Public housing hovers around 90% of all home ownership, draconian drug and censorship laws, de jure anti-LGBT policies, limits on press, etc.

Let's do Hong Kong next!
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,920|5681|949

SuperJail Warden wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

How are they different? Literally the same group.

Taiwan has a much more stable democracy than South Korea, but that's not saying much. What does that have to do with your argument? Are you saying quality of life and economic success is directly tied to the form of government?
The same group with hugely different circumstances? The KMT securely in control of mainland China is in a completely different position than a KMT trapped in Taiwan trying to provide a counter example to the CCP.

You agree that material conditions have a strong effect on people's attitudes, culture, and actions? You don't see how the KMT with 75 x times the resources would be different than the one in Taiwan even in the 80's?
Yes, the same group. Yes, circumstances matter. We have an example of the KMT doing well on a small scale. That to me is at least more evidence than a hypothetical "they would be worse than the CPC in China", don't you think?

I could make the opposite argument (that with more resources the KMT would do a BETTER job in China than the CPC) using the same foundation of facts (none) that you used, and it would be the same asinine position.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2769
America could use more public housing. Get those soldiers off the bases and into the forest to produce more lumber. Teach soldiers to frame a home and not frame a civilian.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2769

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

How are they different? Literally the same group.

Taiwan has a much more stable democracy than South Korea, but that's not saying much. What does that have to do with your argument? Are you saying quality of life and economic success is directly tied to the form of government?
The same group with hugely different circumstances? The KMT securely in control of mainland China is in a completely different position than a KMT trapped in Taiwan trying to provide a counter example to the CCP.

You agree that material conditions have a strong effect on people's attitudes, culture, and actions? You don't see how the KMT with 75 x times the resources would be different than the one in Taiwan even in the 80's?
Yes, the same group. Yes, circumstances matter. We have an example of the KMT doing well on a small scale. That to me is at least more evidence than a hypothetical "they would be worse than the CPC in China", don't you think?

I could make the opposite argument (that with more resources the KMT would do a BETTER job in China than the CPC) using the same foundation of facts (none) that you used, and it would be the same asinine position.
My original point was about how all of this is unknowable and confusing. Do you want to just flex that you know a lot about Taiwan because you are the UPS wing of HTC mobile phones? Okay, you know about Taiwan. Congratulations.

I don't think the KMT would be worse just much different. I already acknowledged the CCP got a lot of people innocent people killed in their industrialization. I also think their political system is backsliding. I think a KMT victory in '50 would result in a less industrialized China but also one much less hostile to the U.S. Whichever is preferable is entirely up to individuals to decide.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,920|5681|949

No, you specifically said
I doubt the Nationalist would have put effort into improving general quality of life and industrializing.
There is evidence that same Kuomintang DID put effort into improving QoL and industrializing - in TW. Do you know why the semiconductor industry in TW is so strong? Hint: It's because the government focused on that particular sector as part of their industrializing initiative.

I learned about the KMT, TW and China in high school and college. I took a lot of international studies classes, as one tends to do when they earn a degree in International Relations. Has nothing to do with working for a Taiwanese company. I also talked about South Korea and Singapore. I must work for Samsung or something!

Yes, a China ruled by the KMT would most likely be different than a China ruled by the CPC. Well done!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,746|5155|eXtreme to the maX

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Hasn't Singapore basically been a one party state forever?
They seem to have done OK with a succession of technocrats
I like when free market proponents and lolbertarians bring up Singapore as an example, because it's pretty much the antithesis of what westerners think of when referring to liberty, and shows those who pretend to care about FREEEEDOM! are stupid hypocrites.

Public housing hovers around 90% of all home ownership, draconian drug and censorship laws, de jure anti-LGBT policies, limits on press, etc.

Let's do Hong Kong next!
No system is perfect Ken
#FreeBritney
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+489|2769

RTHKI wrote:

I have not gotten any pimples from masks and I wear one a lot
I think it might actually be the weather and stress. I did some Googling.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,746|5155|eXtreme to the maX
The wrong kind of chocolate does it for me.
#FreeBritney
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,920|5681|949

Dilbert_X wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Hasn't Singapore basically been a one party state forever?
They seem to have done OK with a succession of technocrats
I like when free market proponents and lolbertarians bring up Singapore as an example, because it's pretty much the antithesis of what westerners think of when referring to liberty, and shows those who pretend to care about FREEEEDOM! are stupid hypocrites.

Public housing hovers around 90% of all home ownership, draconian drug and censorship laws, de jure anti-LGBT policies, limits on press, etc.

Let's do Hong Kong next!
No system is perfect Ken
I would love to read a non-emotive, logical reason so many countries swing and miss on softballs like social liberty.
uziq
Member
+406|2501

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

yes the planned economy and forced urbanization worked really well.

Dilbert_X wrote:

The problem is people who think they're technocratic geniuses are usually just delusional humanities graduates.
the people in charge of collectivisation were not humanities graduates. why are you so fucking illiterate?
uziq
Member
+406|2501

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:


I like when free market proponents and lolbertarians bring up Singapore as an example, because it's pretty much the antithesis of what westerners think of when referring to liberty, and shows those who pretend to care about FREEEEDOM! are stupid hypocrites.

Public housing hovers around 90% of all home ownership, draconian drug and censorship laws, de jure anti-LGBT policies, limits on press, etc.

Let's do Hong Kong next!
No system is perfect Ken
I would love to read a non-emotive, logical reason so many countries swing and miss on softballs like social liberty.
christopher clark (pace isaiah berlin) writes a lot on this. it’s political versus social objectives. in the parlance of berlin’s liberalism, it’s a choice between giving a peasant a pair of boots or freedom (in his view freedom is more important). many nations have opted for the boots option.

i agree it doesn’t have to be either/or in a developed society though. the history of singapore’s political system (and somewhat of a cult of personality around lee kuan yew) is unfortunate.

also i love how sanguine dilbert is about the total lack of freedom in his model technocracies. a person who bitches and moans about 3000 refugees and other minor peccadillos that have no material impact on his life whatsoever. but living in an illiberal society is no big deal
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5821|USA

I guess WA now has a vaccine lottery too. Might as well find out if people who've already had it are eligible. I'm not a lottery player, but I guess if I already have a "ticket" I might as well use it?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,746|5155|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

also i love how sanguine dilbert is about the total lack of freedom in his model technocracies.
https://media.tenor.com/images/72c742f890fd91ee0be3b90de7a9728e/tenor.gif

'Total lack of freedom' LMAO Never said anything like that.
#FreeBritney
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,746|5155|eXtreme to the maX
Anyway, back on topic.

Seems to be becoming clear the China flu came out of the Wuhan lab November 2019, Fauci etc funded research there.

What happens if thats the case and China delayed and lied throughout and let its travelling citizens infect the world?

China was well ahead with its vaccine, what happens when COVD-23 decimates the world and China is mysteriously unaffected?

After several years of a noticeably more assertive shift in China’s diplomatic and media tone, often dubbed ‘Wolf Warrior’ in reference to a Chinese action movie, Xi has dropped the first hint that the confrontational style needs adjustment.

The world's most powerful politician announced China must '"strengthen and improve its international propaganda work" in a speech this week at a group study session of China's 25-member leadership group, the Politburo.

"We must pay attention to a good grasp of the tone, as well as be open, confident and humble, try our utmost to portray an image of a reliable, lovely, respectable China," Mr Xi was quoted as saying, in a line that appears to suggest a need for change.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-04/ … /100186166

Fool me once
#FreeBritney
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,915|5821|USA



Let's see what the comments have to say:

Thot Police
1 minute ago
Good for them, let this be a lesson to the remaining employers that we're not complying with this authoritarian crap. Keep your vaccine and we'll keep our antibodies, we're both protected.
Oh.
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,718|5786|Oxferd Ohire
Another positive case at work. Had more last couple months than entire year before
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png

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