BF2S Forums Pandemic thread

You're the one with multiple chinese fuckbuddies no? Considering the discussion I'm willing to wager who's more of a sinophile.

uziq wrote:

reported infections

Yup, reported. Who knows how far it travelled in China and how many it killed. The CCP decided to prioritise its image over public health long ago. We'll never know.

I'm thinking minority status in western Europe, or anywhere in Europe, is considerably better than in China in every conceivable way.

Larssen wrote:

I'm thinking minority status in western Europe, or anywhere in Europe, is considerably better than in China in every conceivable way.

yes because you live in a culture that privileges human rights and civic ideals like privacy above many other things.

in china they do not have such notions. they do not feel the same sense of burning injustice.

do you really need to have cultural relativism explained to you?

i'm sure the agrarian poor minorities in china are much more concerned about 'their rights' than they are about their ability to make a living and create a better life for their children.

Uziq, the dismissal of these tensions in the country is just...

If the EU were to decide that it will annex iceland by force, you will still be able to posit the notion that 'the majority of Europeans are pro-EU!'.  Doesn't really ring true in iceland though does it, but I guess the conquest of their island now makes them EU citizens? Tough luck for the Icelanders I suppose.


I think we've established long ago that jay and dilbert suffer from lesser mental ability, I expect them to make retarded statements.

Larssen wrote:

Uziq, the dismissal of these tensions in the country is just...

If the EU were to decide that it will annex iceland by force, you will still be able to posit the notion that 'the majority of Europeans are pro-EU!'.  Doesn't really ring true in iceland though does it, but I guess the conquest of their island now makes them EU citizens? Tough luck for the Icelanders I suppose.


I think we've established long ago that jay and dilbert suffer from lesser mental ability, I expect them to make retarded statements.

they are not trivial issues. but pointing them out in the context of this discussion, of chinese people's view of their government, and the government's approval ratings, is legerdemain.

chinese people value stability, continuity, and respect for the state. these values have been formed in the crucible of some very unpleasant, violent and disruptive recent history. what shocks and outrages us here in the west, like the annexation of crimea, or, yes, god forbid, iceland being invaded, does not have the same purchase over there. people are by default inclined to favour authority and the state, and to trust in it. their cultural values run completely counter, and counter-intuitively, to our own. this same notion of a 'difference' is abrogated when jay refers to them as a 'hive mind', in some racist trope, whilst denigrating the fact that i've actually interacted with chinese people and had proper conversations with them on these topics (i'm not saying this makes me an expert, either, but it gives me a sympathetic understanding which he clearly does not have; all he can proffer is racist generalizations). 

multiple surveys have cited 90%+ approval ratings from the chinese people. both with survey volumes in the 10,000s. are all those people being oppressed, forced to give answers, or living in fear? or is it just possible that the chinese like their government, and consider sacrifices to their freedom and suppression of minorities a worthwhile price for continued stability and prosperity?

americans were all too happy - delighted, even - to see innocent muslims in detention centres and extradited to egypt or cuba to be tortured. they reveled in it. even when most of the detainees were innocent, and victims of profiling/racism (many of them even US and UK citizens). the majority of chinese take the same blase attitude to groups creating problems on the far fringes of the country. i'm not saying i agree with this attitude - i am a conscientious westerner, after all - but it's not so hard to see the analogy. a 'so what? they're terrorists' or 'that's the price to pay for our safety and stability' attitude has been used in the west for most of the 2000s. good little liberals justified terrible, illegal wars with the same rationale.

i'm mentioning this by way of explaining that, yes, even with their issues and many existing tensions, the chinese people can still be widely supportive of their government. what affronts us and strikes us as a crime against humanity does not have the same import there. i have posted here on d&st, passim, about how the uighur situation is the greatest crime against humanity currently ongoing in the world today, and a disgrace to all civilized governments who don't apply more pressure over it.

i'm done with this discussion now. if people can't accept the facts right before them, that the chinese support their government and are happy about their place in the world and their prospects for the future, then you'll have to take your objections to a search engine. you will soon be disabused of your notions. and, yes, the post-truth trump era has been a boon to chinese conservatives. it has aided the CCP in trying to undermine democracy's credibility. how can it not? trump is an embarrassment to the west, as you've said many times yourself. how do you think he is received in a place that wants to downplay the strength of the west? the vast majority of chinese are not envious of the west (pace dilbert/jay), it's really that simple.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-15 12:34:53)

that's very EU of you.

this poor bastard, a senior epidemiologist on the UK taskforce, is part of a subset of patients who have a 'long tail' form of the disease. he's had covid for 7 weeks.

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/05/05/pa … -symptoms/

uziq wrote:

for jay to make out that low levels of emigration to the US (or the UK, or australia, or anywhere else) is signs of mass chinese misery, desperate to escape, is the height of ignorance. for dilbert to say that the majority of asians would rather live in the west is fanciful, to say the least (wait for him to come up and attack the methodology of the pew research centre and ipso MORI, it's nonsense etc etc, he knows they're all miserable or being forced to answer contradictorily).

Obviously most of the asians I come into contact are the ones who upped and left so its not a representative sample, and pretty well all of them are other than chinese.
None of them have the slightest interest in going back to their overcrowded sweatholes and they all want to get the rest of their family out.

The question is whether they will rally behind emperor Xinping or have another revolution.

Probably the question of the century.

Oh and it looks like the WTO is as good as dead.

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

for jay to make out that low levels of emigration to the US (or the UK, or australia, or anywhere else) is signs of mass chinese misery, desperate to escape, is the height of ignorance. for dilbert to say that the majority of asians would rather live in the west is fanciful, to say the least (wait for him to come up and attack the methodology of the pew research centre and ipso MORI, it's nonsense etc etc, he knows they're all miserable or being forced to answer contradictorily).

Obviously most of the asians I come into contact are the ones who upped and left so its not a representative sample, and pretty well all of them are other than chinese.
None of them have the slightest interest in going back to their overcrowded sweatholes and they all want to get the rest of their family out.

lots of asians who migrate abroad or take their family essentially become a sub-nation within that nation, another minority group, in fact, always on the edge of the culture and slightly alienated by it.

there are special terms in each language for japanese-americans, chinese-americans, korean-americans. they even encounter stigmatisation in their 'home' countries.

so yes, i can believe that westernised asians have very different views. iranian-americans have terribly mixed feelings about iran, too, you know? that's because they're the liberal elite and the intelligentsia, who left in bitter circumstances. the same situation obtained for much of the 20th century with russians. defectors, dissidents, white russians, liberals, etc. would set-up salons in paris or new york. the west hung on their every word as gospel. turns out they were a tiny minority and their home country didn't even care about or miss them. that's because in china, in iran, and in russia, there's lots of patriots. lots and lots of patriots, it turns out.

i know you keep mocking me for having dated some chinese girls in my time, but really i've not tried to relate those anecdotes as having any more significance or insight than what it was: frank, in-depth conversations with someone from a completely different culture about their values. the sorts of things that 20-somethings do discuss after a few glasses of wine. and, without fail, every single time i raised something that was critical of china, they went on the defensive. these students were no bumpkins, nor were they stupid indoctrinated drones. they were highly intelligent students from very rich/powerful families. they are hugely proud of their nation's recent development, and don't like much hearing criticism from their perceived rivals. they know there are improvements to be made, lessons to be learned, but they'd rather get on with them and not be lectured by westerners who they see as overwhelmingly corrupt/lazy/incompetent/etc. basically any contemptuous snide remark you have about other races, they have about us.

growing up with the expectation of having a better life, a country on the rise, fortunes to be made, national destinies to be altered, etc. must explain a lot of it. the west is in decline. we are pessimistic, anxious, worried. trust in our leaders is low. politicians are out of favour. we're even tired of experts. we are in the bickering divorce phase of our civilisation; the flame has gone out. china isn't like that. when jay makes out that they're all prisoners behind a giant berlin wall, dying to get across the razor wire, he is absolutely, categorically way off base. it's right-wing delusion.

Last edited by uziq (2020-05-15 17:37:38)

Iranian-Americans are like Cuban-Americans and South-Vietnamese Americans, largely corrupt fucks who probably deserved a revolution.

If Asians want to become Australians, adopt the values and build a life and restaurants they're welcome here.

How many nations would welcome CCP sleepers to destabilise them and rise up on invasion day? Your argument is dumb.

basically any contemptuous snide remark you have about other races, they have about us.

I'm sure they do, so why are they so anxious to receive a western education for one and get out of China for another?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-05-15 17:40:57)