BF2S Forums EE Chats 2142

Dilbert_X wrote:

Er, are people swallowing condoms filled with Nescafe or having packages stitched inside them on pain of having their family murdered to supply my morning coffee?
Pretty sure its fairtrade and fully ethical.

my entire drug era on this forum involved cathinones and MDMA

Well this explains why your head is now like an aero bar.

MDMA is less neurotoxic than alcohol. good job. read some science once in a while.

it's been researched for medicinal use.

"er, are medical researchers and therapists busily investigating the therapeutic benefits of smashing half a pint of vodka?" etc. etc. make u think.

pretty sure that 'fairtrade' stickers put on things are less than meaningless. it's funny that you're all about 'individual conscience' but it ultimately boils down, to you, to declaring yourself morally superior and your hands cleaned because you buy the thing with a sticker on it. don't look into any of the investigative journalism around the 'fairtrade' racket, or the real conditions of workers in africa, or anything. amazing how singularly unreflective and incurious you are about it when it concerns your own consumption, eh?

that cocaine has to enter the market through the black market is a problem created solely by legislation. considering the entire politico-legal class are evidently sniffing the stuff on a weekly basis, as recent exposés in parliament and various state houses have proven, i think the justification for this absurd and harmful state-of-affairs is piss weak.

with the people moralising and setting the rules about this stuff being thoroughly hypocritical, plus with the scientific establishment more and more putting the 'harms' of illegal drugs in their context alongside the supposedly 'fine' legal drugs ... well, what can you say. i remind you, yet again, that your stance on this stuff is essentially religiose, not scientific: you want to judge others on their personal behaviour and set rules and limits on their pleasures, plus you're basically scandalised by what other people get up to in their private lives. none of this has any scientific basis or utilitarian rationale.

Dilbert_X wrote:

There literally isn't a more evil supply chain than the one for cocaine though.

blood diamonds? emerald mines? in recent times, sugar, coffee, cocoa, etc, all involved the slavery and immiseration of millions of people. millions of people are still in indentured servitude, suffering workplace abuse and effective slavery, every day to serve western markets.

the funniest thing is that thinktanks in washington, the economist, etc, all heralds of mainstream thought, are advising that colombia and the USA decriminalise cocaine asap. the whole issue with cartels in mexico and the ongoing narco-funding in colombia could be obviated with one change in policy direction from the white house. that's it. problem solved. you can't say the same thing for global markets in coffee and chocolate, in which vast conglomerates are turning the other cheek to very serious labour abuses.

you making everything about the gospel of consumer choice is funny. i'm all for systemic changes that will make widespread, fundamental change.

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

the entire politico-legal class are evidently sniffing the stuff on a weekly basis

This again, you've got no actual evidence for this.

Are you that naive lmao

Funny how the right wing is anti drugs but never complaint when their lawyers or investment bankers are using it as a performance enchanting substance

uziq wrote:

like i said, larssen, you’re clearly not paying very much attention if you think this is conspicuously poor behaviour or problematic from the morocco fans.

again, i’m not denying that there are specific elements that are using the football as an excuse to break shit and vent frustration. but they’re a fraction of a fraction and it hardly takes deep analysis to wonder why a bunch of ghettoised migrants in belgium or wherever want to throw stones at a platoon of riot police deployed in their neighbourhood.

there was ca. 25,000 people on the champs elysées alone that night. they detained ~150 people city-wide. but you’re telling me there’s a yuuuuge brewing problem in the moroccan community? this is the biggest immigrant group in france ffs. stop reaching.

i’ve seen more damage and more violence and affray in bristol city during a derby weekend between bristol city and bristol rovers football fans. mounted police on horseback being knocked over. shops and pubs destroyed. people seriously wounded.  etc. this is people destroying their own city. please stop acting like native whites are this virtuous and civilised group. it’s really embarrassing man.

if it’s ‘champagne socialist’ of me to prefer not to challenge an entire ethnic group on their ‘loyalty’ because a few teenagers got excited at a semi-final, then pass me the fucking magnum of bollinger, baby. you sound like an insipid tabloid-tier cultural commentator.

There's a difference between incidents and structural issues. Philly burning after they win the superbowl, a derby riot, a riot in canada - they would be comparable if the people in question would be rioting after every game played by their team, across cities and borders. Riots occurred in 3 seperate countries with their own socioeconomic contexts, simultaneously, after every game.

Don't lump me in with the resident forum troglodyte because I dare say a community can exhibit toxic behaviours. As though you're committing a taboo by pointing out that a subset of the moroccan community is guilty of destroying property, rioting and picking fights with the police - structurally. Even if you want to deflect to other riots resulting after sports games then too media headlines would undoubtedly say something like 'arsenal hooligans riot in London' and 'Police prepare for the next arsenal game' but in that case I'm sure denotion of the group would be unproblematic. It's the very fact that it's an ethnic identity which makes you gulp down that whole bollinger. If arsenal fans would start fires in london after literally every single game, not just in London but in multiple cities across multiple countries, you'd have no issue whatsoever pointing out that there's deeply problematic elements within the arsenal 'fanbase.'

What you need to learn is that you can perfectly well talk about ethnicity and ethnic groups without it immediately veering into provinciality and racism or Dilbertism. Completely avoiding the topic for fear of the idea that you'd immediately be chastising the whole community is such tiresome BS. There's obviously something going on in the way of social mobilisation and calls to rioting specifically in parts of the moroccan community, across borders, that is markedly different from and problematic compared to literally every other ethnic (minority) group involved in the world cup. Acknowledging this amounts to recognition of basic fact. Or do I need to roll a whole oak barrel of fermenting grapes your way?

Last edited by Larssen (2022-12-17 03:16:55)

Here you've got individuals who throw bananas at players who are of african descent

I'll roll out that oak barrel for you. Do you feel personally assaulted when working class whites/english are 'singled out' for shit behaviour?

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/mel … 5c6mu.html

Why are lefty Melbournians like this.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Larssen wrote:

I dare say a community can exhibit toxic behaviours.

Isn't that largely meaningless though? What 'community' doesn't have its toxic behaviors. White males and their mass shootings in America, for one. Should I hold like 100 million men to task for that? Write articles speculating on some social or genetic insanity inherent to the 'white race?' How about when a car got tipped or a window got broken at otherwise quite peaceful BLM demonstrations. "Why are black people like this!" Probably shouldn't, right?

So did most of like two-million Moroccans riot across France, Belgium, and the Netherlands, or was it, er, a smaller group of people?

There's this complete cognitive dissonance on the left where people can acknowledge identity groups in their fight for equal rights or what have you and will stand there protesting the system alongside them, but whenever negatives arise the attitude turns to saw nothing, heard nothing. A case of sudden blindness! It was but a few people, but more importantly - look at the white trash over there! They did it too! Just as bad! Worse even!

And just like so the worst among us are excused while being pieces of shit.

Last edited by Larssen (2022-12-17 17:17:28)

Larssen wrote:

I'll roll out that oak barrel for you. Do you feel personally assaulted when working class whites/english are 'singled out' for shit behaviour?

no, because i'm not a working-class white nor a football supporter.

but pointing out that my own countryfolk have a long legacy, a notoriety, even, for violence and public disorder over a silly ball game -- doesn't make me burn with shame or feel smarted. that's because i'm not a dumb pAtriOt type.

you, on the other hand, sound positively mad when people point out to you that it's not only arabs who burn cars after football games. like this observation is causing you real discomfort. again, you're a provincial. it's not my problem.

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Throwing chunks of ice at a football field. I don't think a significant number of participants were Moroccans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvPWK23DZFk

yeh that was the game i was refering to lel

Larssen wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Larssen wrote:

I dare say a community can exhibit toxic behaviours.

Isn't that largely meaningless though? What 'community' doesn't have its toxic behaviors. White males and their mass shootings in America, for one. Should I hold like 100 million men to task for that? Write articles speculating on some social or genetic insanity inherent to the 'white race?' How about when a car got tipped or a window got broken at otherwise quite peaceful BLM demonstrations. "Why are black people like this!" Probably shouldn't, right?

So did most of like two-million Moroccans riot across France, Belgium, and the Netherlands, or was it, er, a smaller group of people?

There's this complete cognitive dissonance on the left where people can acknowledge identity groups in their fight for equal rights or what have you and will stand there protesting the system alongside them, but whenever negatives arise the attitude turns to saw nothing, heard nothing. A case of sudden blindness! It was but a few people, but more importantly - look at the white trash over there! They did it too! Just as bad! Worse even!

And just like so the worst among us are excused while being pieces of shit.

"The left" isn't so much a wide brush as it is a spray gun set to 400 bars. Isn't there plenty of navel-gazing done "on the left," as you put it? I could probably google an editorial or two with first page results. Even low-brow social media has a regular go at corporate democrats.

A strange point to bring up for someone painting French-Moroccans as some exceptionally unhinged element in the world of sports fans. Why wouldn't we point out other instances of (regular) craziness elsewhere in the world?

These questions still stand:

Isn't that largely meaningless though?

So did most of like two-million Moroccans riot across France, Belgium, and the Netherlands, or was it, er, a smaller group of people?

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2022-12-17 18:23:20)