BF2S Forums EE (hats 2018

Dilbert_X wrote:

My claims are fully documented, thanks.

Here's one for you, one case I was peripherally involved in - within six months of it ending the DPP was dismissed and the defendant, the Chief Constable and the Judge were all dead in odd circumstances.
If it were in Russia people would be going nuts, this happens in the UK.

I keep seeing you bring this up, without actually knowing what it was you're on about, what actually went on?

uziq wrote:

of course i'm skeptical and i'm sure there is finagling. i'm not stupid or naive and i don't believe people are perfect public servants or incorruptible. it's actually pretty likely that the UK establishment had a pedo-problem in the middle of the 20th century, involving very senior MPs, which i think is tangentially related to dilbert's big conspiracy (very few things would end up in the supposed extra-judicial 'disappearing' of a chief constable and judge). maybe dilbert is the broken clock telling the right time in this instance. but the general idea that the 'police, CPS, politicians, judges' etc. all routinely work together to stiff the common guy is pretty much nonsense. most people in all those professions are honest and follow, you know, the actual law.

there's being skeptical and then there's being some edge lord that always thinks 'authority stinks'. being cynical isn't cool or sophisticated. it doesn't make you smart because you're always 'on your guard and questioning everything'. real life is complicated, sure, but dilbert's reading takes his personal case and tilts it into full-on conspiracy theory.

in any case it's absolutely clear that may has had no direct involvement in the skripal affair. if you really think that, you need to stop watching RT/alex jones. that's just not how large-scale public cases are conducted in the UK.

yeah I see what you're saying, you make good points, but I still thinking being on your guard at all times is the logically correct way of looking at things. in this case with the poisonings I think it's safe to say it's happened the way the UK is setting it out (or at least very close to it). We know this shady shit has happened in the past, especially from Russia, that Putin is a corrupt quasi-dictator, it's not a big leap to imagine he'd actually order this to be carried out.

I wasn't referring to Dilbert or Shahter or even this investigation specifically with that comment, more about the political climate in general. Trump, especially with his recent denial of a scientifically-backed study regarding deaths in Peurto Rico, Hillary with her just .. blatant lying, flip flopping, pandering, Cameron with his cowardly "they'll never go for it" referendum and subsequent stepping down.. The game seems set up to only elect psychopaths and liars, and they think we don't know any better, that we're too stupid to see what's going on. It's incredibly depressing to see how much shit goes on to line the pockets of the political elite and their cronies. Hard not to extrapolate the resulting cynicism to anything you hear that you haven't directly investigated yourself. Where could we be if we had an honest, corruption free ruling class?

People are throwing away humanities only chance of surviving long enough to find out what the fuck this entire circus is all about, just to make a buck. Hell, not only does it make me cynical, it challenges the very motivation to even participate.

Last edited by Finray (2018-09-13 19:31:52)

I had other children I needed to dismiss. Dismissal is my side gig.

coke wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

My claims are fully documented, thanks.

Here's one for you, one case I was peripherally involved in - within six months of it ending the DPP was dismissed and the defendant, the Chief Constable and the Judge were all dead in odd circumstances.
If it were in Russia people would be going nuts, this happens in the UK.

I keep seeing you bring this up, without actually knowing what it was you're on about, what actually went on?

Long story short:

A Police force came up with a scheme to bug the phones of criminals and solicitors, so they could listen in on criminals talking to criminals and criminals talking to their lawyers before their trials.
A neat trick as it allowed the Police to know in advance how they were going to run their defence, where their weaknesses were, where information was hidden, who to talk to, who to pressure etc, but wholly illegal.

As part of it, through various traps, agents-provocateur etc a firm of lawyers – who were a thorn in the side of the Police because they were reasonably honest and didn’t do deals with the Police to serve up their clients on a plate for conviction (as many lawyers do, since they get paid win or lose) – were swept up and charged with corruption on the basis of the bugged recordings.

This resulted in a series of criminal trials which were to be heard in a series by the same judge.
As the trials progressed, and as each one was thrown out by the judge since surveillance without a warrant cannot be used in a trial, since discussions between a client and a lawyer are privileged and can’t be used either, entrapment is illegal as is use of agents-provocateur, the Police became steadily more frustrated, culminating with the Chief Constable, the DPP and a very senior member of the Judiciary conspiring to remove the Judge who was finding against the Police and replace him with one who would allow the illegal bugging evidence to be used. This sort of thing not being allowed as it is interfering in what is supposed to be an independent justice system

This all became public knowledge, very senior people in the Judiciary and government became involved, the DPP was removed, the Chief Constable was found dead in a hotel room, the judge died after falling down a flight of stairs, the central defendant was found swinging under a motorway bridge.

I have seen other cases where the judge was switched and fixed in advance of a trial by the Police. Also over some very mundane low-level criminals, suggesting that its so commonplace as to be routine.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2018-09-14 06:06:27)

uziq wrote:

why do you keep saying may like she has had personal oversight of the investigation?

because mays is simply a name to put on it for me - a talking head that pitches this crap. you know, your free and objective media and incorruptible politicians almost always make it a point to mention putin by name whenever something they wish to portray as sinister happens involving - or they wish it involved - russia. and you repeat that crap here and can't seemingly be arsed to research which is which in russia, what's its political stucture like, how assorted russian state agencies operate domestically and internationally - so why should i bother researching UK and its inner workings?

uziq wrote:

because putin is a despot who presides over a country where journalists are murdered and opposition leaders are locked up and not allowed to partake in elections.

well, there you go. you don't really know much about russia or putin.

may is a hapless idiot.

agreed. you'll have to forgive me though for not being especially interested in researching the inner workings of UK government just to be able to converse with you after that^ depiction of russia.

Shahter wrote:

uziq wrote:

because putin is a despot who presides over a country where journalists are murdered and opposition leaders are locked up and not allowed to partake in elections.

well, there you go. you don't really know much about russia or putin.

may is a hapless idiot.

agreed. you'll have to forgive me though for not being especially interested in researching the inner workings of UK government just to be able to converse with you after that^ depiction of russia.

Are you saying journalists aren't regularly murdered and opposition leaders dubiously imprisoned in Russia then, cus if you are the levels of denial/self awareness here are astonishing.

coke wrote:

Are you saying journalists aren't regularly murdered

not lately, no. during yeltsyn and early putin times - yes, but that was a dangerous time for many people, not just journalists.

and opposition leaders dubiously imprisoned in Russia then, cus if you are the levels of denial/self awareness here are astonishing.

you mean navalny the clown i suppose. dusiously imprisoned? no. he was tried and convicted of embezzlment of federal funds. the case is rock-solid.

that^ is kinda true. a lot more people deserve to be put behind bars for corruption/embezzlement here than fucking navalny. that's becide the point though.

uziq wrote:

it’s entirely the fucking point convenient how the  main opposition leader gets found guilty.

navalny? main opposition leader? dude, you really know nothing about russia, don't you? navalny is a fucking clown, as a polititian he's litetally nothing.

you couldn’t swing a cat in the kremlin without hitting a corrupt politician or someone who had enriched themselves.

and that wouldn't be true about governments in UK or US?

isn’t there a rumour that putin is one of the richest men on the planet?

i don't do rumors. however, i'm sure putin's fine.

Shahter wrote:

uziq wrote:

it’s entirely the fucking point convenient how the  main opposition leader gets found guilty.

navalny? main opposition leader? dude, you really know nothing about russia, don't you? navalny is a fucking clown, as a polititian he's litetally nothing.

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/the- … 171225.htm
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/worl … 700857002/
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/28/euro … index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ … or-30-days
https://www.ft.com/content/16df421e-72c … bd07df1a3c
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/who-alexei-na … ic-1612872
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/peop … 54817.html

fake news?

you're right. we should look at the russian media to get a good idea about political opposition. western media definitely don't fact check!



https://rsf.org/en/ranking

Last edited by uziq (2018-09-14 12:02:26)

uziq wrote:

you're right. we should look at the russian media to get a good idea about political opposition. western media definitely don't fact check!

you shouldn't look at any media atm to get ideas about politics. journalism as a means of getting objective information - or, for that matter, even honest opinions - to people is dead in the world of global capitalism.

edit: quote.

Last edited by Shahter (2018-09-14 12:18:02)