Monkey see monkey do, if he's on TV he must be a hero.
Fuck Israel
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
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There was a film director who complained that 'you can't make an anti-war movie without appealing to a certain demographic that glorifies war". I think Sopranos had that issue. There were a lot of pig men who watched the Sopranos and thought Tony was a hero and something to emulate. Same thing happened with Scarface and the Godfather and more.
There are tons of people who have low reading comprehension skills. I have seen first hand someone read simple literature and completely miss the point. Antiheros in media can be entertaining but it is an issue that people can be inspired by violence they see in media and the internet. "How much of a responsibility does an artist have if their work inspires people to do wrong in real life?" Both sides of that debate have very good points but the discussion is banished from the mainstream of America because FrEeDoM oF sPeEcH, or whatever someone thinks freedom of speech is, is sacred and unquestionable. And of course major media companies in the west aren't going to allow such a debate to take place because it is in their economic interest to have as little regulation on their profession as possible. What can you do?
If you go back through my post you can see me write angrily about the Sons of Anarchy biker gang show.
I remember I had a boss who was a literal pig man who loved this show. The fact that the premise of the show is Hamlet went completely over this guy's head because he didn't know what Hamlet or Shakespeare was. He just saw a bunch of white guys going around riding motorcycles and being bros and thought it was cool. Pig man like that are more common in the world of television viewers than people like Uzique or me.
Now that I am finished my sanctimonious denouncement of violent media, please enjoy this IRL video of young lives being ended:
"Thermal-optic scope footage of sniper assaulting an outpost"
https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/ … ssaulting/
There are tons of people who have low reading comprehension skills. I have seen first hand someone read simple literature and completely miss the point. Antiheros in media can be entertaining but it is an issue that people can be inspired by violence they see in media and the internet. "How much of a responsibility does an artist have if their work inspires people to do wrong in real life?" Both sides of that debate have very good points but the discussion is banished from the mainstream of America because FrEeDoM oF sPeEcH, or whatever someone thinks freedom of speech is, is sacred and unquestionable. And of course major media companies in the west aren't going to allow such a debate to take place because it is in their economic interest to have as little regulation on their profession as possible. What can you do?
If you go back through my post you can see me write angrily about the Sons of Anarchy biker gang show.
I remember I had a boss who was a literal pig man who loved this show. The fact that the premise of the show is Hamlet went completely over this guy's head because he didn't know what Hamlet or Shakespeare was. He just saw a bunch of white guys going around riding motorcycles and being bros and thought it was cool. Pig man like that are more common in the world of television viewers than people like Uzique or me.
Now that I am finished my sanctimonious denouncement of violent media, please enjoy this IRL video of young lives being ended:
"Thermal-optic scope footage of sniper assaulting an outpost"
https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/ … ssaulting/
somehow i don't think sons of anarchy and the sopranos have the same blue-collar 'everyman' audience you project.
i doubt anyone who tuned into HBO for 6 series still thought by the end of it that it was an 'awesome' show that 'glorified' the mob. you don't need to be a genius or finely honed literary critic to detect the show's themes.
sopranos never had anything like the viewing figures of a major network hit. it was a critical darling. i'm not sure where all these drooling netflix-lite mongs are who watch it and think it's an awesome gangster show.
i doubt anyone who tuned into HBO for 6 series still thought by the end of it that it was an 'awesome' show that 'glorified' the mob. you don't need to be a genius or finely honed literary critic to detect the show's themes.
sopranos never had anything like the viewing figures of a major network hit. it was a critical darling. i'm not sure where all these drooling netflix-lite mongs are who watch it and think it's an awesome gangster show.
- SuperJail Warden
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12 million people watched the Sopranos finale.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of … s_episodes
For a frame of reference, GoT finished with almost 14 million. And SoA ended with half of the Sopranos.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of … y_episodes
The internet people still talking about the show a decade and a half after it finished 'get it' but at the time there were many people who only watched it for the tits and violence. Of course you don't hear from those people anymore because they have raccoon like memories and attention span.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of … s_episodes
For a frame of reference, GoT finished with almost 14 million. And SoA ended with half of the Sopranos.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of … y_episodes
The internet people still talking about the show a decade and a half after it finished 'get it' but at the time there were many people who only watched it for the tits and violence. Of course you don't hear from those people anymore because they have raccoon like memories and attention span.
both sopranos and GoT featured plenty of violence and 'dark content'. how many people were inspired by GoT to murder or commit incest or whatever else was displayed with (supposedly) 'shocking' frankness in those shows?
within the first 5 minutes of the above interview – which is a great interview on the art of writing for television, period – david chase says, of when he was starting to write the series, 'it was very hard to take mob things seriously by that point'. but ok. he's mindlessly glorifying mob violence.
as for dilbert's 'there were no depictions of lower-class violence before gangster stuff', in the interview above they talk at some length about how the noir/gangster genre took over the place of westerns in american culture. american culture, especially in its 'legendary' aspect, has always been instrinsically violent.
within the first 5 minutes of the above interview – which is a great interview on the art of writing for television, period – david chase says, of when he was starting to write the series, 'it was very hard to take mob things seriously by that point'. but ok. he's mindlessly glorifying mob violence.
as for dilbert's 'there were no depictions of lower-class violence before gangster stuff', in the interview above they talk at some length about how the noir/gangster genre took over the place of westerns in american culture. american culture, especially in its 'legendary' aspect, has always been instrinsically violent.
I have been watching the sopranos from the beginning this year, not binging it but whenever I get a chance. Some of the best tv I've ever seen. I figured I should watch it because I only saw the final scene and don't stop believing always reminded me of it, odd that I had never seen the rest.
That's probably a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? You watch violent comic book and war stuff, played violent video games. When was the last time you went out and murdered someone?Dilbert_X wrote:
Monkey see monkey do, if he's on TV he must be a hero.
yes but everyone is an automaton and dilbert is the rational individual seeing through the veil of maya.
it’s amazing that his worldview has been informed by ‘idiocracy’. he now thinks he’s so smarts that even critically appraised tv shows are beneath him. but a goofy movie from mike judge is his skeleton key for life.
it’s amazing that his worldview has been informed by ‘idiocracy’. he now thinks he’s so smarts that even critically appraised tv shows are beneath him. but a goofy movie from mike judge is his skeleton key for life.
gandolfini as tony soprano is one of the best dramatic performances i have ever seen. including from rarefied theatre or classic movies. he is that character, and brings so much depth and humanity to it.Adams_BJ wrote:
I have been watching the sopranos from the beginning this year, not binging it but whenever I get a chance. Some of the best tv I've ever seen. I figured I should watch it because I only saw the final scene and don't stop believing always reminded me of it, odd that I had never seen the rest.
it's so, so funny that dilbert wants to make out the whole thing is 'mindless poorly written trash'. ask any actor about galdolfini's performance and they will tell you it is a GOAT tier performance.
Familiar vibe going on right now. Going to get in ahead of the dilbert reasoning that since we didn't watch Cats 2019 before having an opinion, he's good on making that judgment for Sopranos (dilbert: even if you don't post it, I know you're thinking it tit-for-tat, at least somewhere in the back of your mind).
Again, never mind that Cats '19 is an adaptation of a familiar musical, and was panned by critics, creatives, musical buffs, and Cats fans alike - we can't have a valid reason to pass on it. "Just don't know what we're missing!" One of those productions that particularly sticks out in memory due to being uniquely awful. People competing to see who can lace a review with the most barbs. Of course when someone defends it so vociferously, that also sticks out and bears future comment.
Anyway, I still think it's funny that dilbs likes watching war crimes on TV but balks at a mob drama.
I guess there's a Sopranos prequel on the way? Probably mentioned here, but either I forgot or it completely slipped under my radar.
Again, never mind that Cats '19 is an adaptation of a familiar musical, and was panned by critics, creatives, musical buffs, and Cats fans alike - we can't have a valid reason to pass on it. "Just don't know what we're missing!" One of those productions that particularly sticks out in memory due to being uniquely awful. People competing to see who can lace a review with the most barbs. Of course when someone defends it so vociferously, that also sticks out and bears future comment.
Anyway, I still think it's funny that dilbs likes watching war crimes on TV but balks at a mob drama.
I guess there's a Sopranos prequel on the way? Probably mentioned here, but either I forgot or it completely slipped under my radar.
it looks like it's going to be bad. about the best we can hope for is another 'meh' the irishman-tier movie.
here's one for the petulant and easily offended.
isn't it amazing how many of his social views are basically the same as dilbert's?
here's one for the petulant and easily offended.
isn't it amazing how many of his social views are basically the same as dilbert's?
Last edited by uziq (2021-07-12 23:29:45)
I'm sure he could have put in a fine performance as a concentration camp guard with ishoos who poured his heart out to his pet rat. I mean so what.uziq wrote:
it's so, so funny that dilbert wants to make out the whole thing is 'mindless poorly written trash'. ask any actor about galdolfini's performance and they will tell you it is a GOAT tier performance.
Fuck Israel
Do you know any actual morons though?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
That's probably a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? You watch violent comic book and war stuff, played violent video games. When was the last time you went out and murdered someone?Dilbert_X wrote:
Monkey see monkey do, if he's on TV he must be a hero.
2% Of the population commit 90% of the crime, they don't see the dark irony in these shows, they think they're a manual for how to live.
They shouldn't be encouraged.
There are plenty of opportunities for great acting which don't involve chopping people up with chainsaws or throwing them in the harbour strapped to a safe.
Fuck Israel
A small number of critics decided to attack it and everyone else followed. Happens every year with some unlucky film.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Familiar vibe going on right now. Going to get in ahead of the dilbert reasoning that since we didn't watch Cats 2019 before having an opinion, he's good on making that judgment for Sopranos (dilbert: even if you don't post it, I know you're thinking it tit-for-tat, at least somewhere in the back of your mind).
Again, never mind that Cats '19 is an adaptation of a familiar musical, and was panned by critics, creatives, musical buffs, and Cats fans alike - we can't have a valid reason to pass on it. "Just don't know what we're missing!" One of those productions that particularly sticks out in memory due to being uniquely awful. People competing to see who can lace a review with the most barbs. Of course when someone defends it so vociferously, that also sticks out and bears future comment.
I'm guessing you haven't seen it either.
When do I enjoy watching war crimes on TV?Anyway, I still think it's funny that dilbs likes watching war crimes on TV but balks at a mob drama.
Fuck Israel
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +641|3957
You guys need to stop bullying Dilbert or I swear I will mail a letter to Jay asking him to come back.
lemme grab my popcorn because it'd be hilarious to see the return of an enraged Jay because you're sending him physical letters
Last edited by Larssen (2021-07-13 05:17:36)
what is it with the persistent (and persistently bad) nazi comparisons? you drag them into every thread. you’re obsessed.Dilbert_X wrote:
I'm sure he could have put in a fine performance as a concentration camp guard with ishoos who poured his heart out to his pet rat. I mean so what.uziq wrote:
it's so, so funny that dilbert wants to make out the whole thing is 'mindless poorly written trash'. ask any actor about galdolfini's performance and they will tell you it is a GOAT tier performance.
are you seriously comparing the new jersey mob to the nazis? please go back to school.
maybe watch the show? just a thought.
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
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Maybe Dilbert can watch Season 1 Episode 1. The entire premise of the show is explained at the very start of the show.
Basically one of the biggest themes of the show is the degradation of the mafia/American culture. The first season was filmed the same year Fight Club was released. Both works deal a lot with the American post-Cold War loss of direction and purpose. "This is it?"
Basically one of the biggest themes of the show is the degradation of the mafia/American culture. The first season was filmed the same year Fight Club was released. Both works deal a lot with the American post-Cold War loss of direction and purpose. "This is it?"
not to mention the entire setting in new jersey – and as i said before, it isn’t a ‘new york’ show, even if some storylines cross the bridge – is a bathetic effect. the NJ mob are meant to be an amateurish non-entity, ineffectual compared to the ‘glamorous’ and infamous families of new york. the entire NJ thing, sitting outside the pork store, the back room at the turnpike stripclub, is meant to underscore how distinctly UNGLAMOROUS their lives are.
tony is the only one who seems to live in any ‘luxury’, and even then the show makes a point of how chintzy and kitsch their idea of ‘luxury’ is. they live in a mcmansion and his trophy wife dresses like a 1980s tv chef or sears catalogue model. nothing about it suggested ‘glamour’ to an audience in 2000 ffs. their social inferiority and ignorance is a major theme running through the whole series.
it’s an ironic commentary from the very get-go. as david chase said in the summary, part of the founding joke is that life in america is so degraded and disappointing that even a mobster is depressed.
tony is the only one who seems to live in any ‘luxury’, and even then the show makes a point of how chintzy and kitsch their idea of ‘luxury’ is. they live in a mcmansion and his trophy wife dresses like a 1980s tv chef or sears catalogue model. nothing about it suggested ‘glamour’ to an audience in 2000 ffs. their social inferiority and ignorance is a major theme running through the whole series.
it’s an ironic commentary from the very get-go. as david chase said in the summary, part of the founding joke is that life in america is so degraded and disappointing that even a mobster is depressed.
Last edited by uziq (2021-07-13 05:53:02)
Hand deliver it - I dare yaSuperJail Warden wrote:
You guys need to stop bullying Dilbert or I swear I will mail a letter to Jay asking him to come back.
Fuck Israel
None of this matters when the average socially inferior ignoramous sees it as a gangster-hero show they can identify with.uziq wrote:
not to mention the entire setting in new jersey – and as i said before, it isn’t a ‘new york’ show, even if some storylines cross the bridge – is a bathetic effect. the NJ mob are meant to be an amateurish non-entity, ineffectual compared to the ‘glamorous’ and infamous families of new york. the entire NJ thing, sitting outside the pork store, the back room at the turnpike stripclub, is meant to underscore how distinctly UNGLAMOROUS their lives are.
tony is the only one who seems to live in any ‘luxury’, and even then the show makes a point of how chintzy and kitsch their idea of ‘luxury’ is. they live in a mcmansion and his trophy wife dresses like a 1980s tv chef or sears catalogue model. nothing about it suggested ‘glamour’ to an audience in 2000 ffs. their social inferiority and ignorance is a major theme running through the whole series.
it’s an ironic commentary from the very get-go. as david chase said in the summary, part of the founding joke is that life in america is so degraded and disappointing that even a mobster is depressed.
Reservoir Dogs was supposedly dark irony, all I heard for years was "did you see that bit where the guy cut that guys ear off? That was so cool"
Fuck Israel
so ... you haven't ... seen ... the show
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +641|3957
The primary meeting place of the show being a strip club and not a fancy restaurant or office went over a lot of people's heads. Pig men saw that Tony had an office at a strip club and thought "I wish I had an office at a strip club". Little things like that could give a wrong impression of the whole thing.
Funny show observation: the NJ mafia's second meeting place is a small deli with a giant pig mascot on top. The NY mafia's primary meeting place seemed to be the backroom of a upscale tavern. Probably a Knights of Columbus hall or Italian American League place. No hooker foot traffic there.
Funny show observation: the NJ mafia's second meeting place is a small deli with a giant pig mascot on top. The NY mafia's primary meeting place seemed to be the backroom of a upscale tavern. Probably a Knights of Columbus hall or Italian American League place. No hooker foot traffic there.
exactly. all the details were meant to make the new jersey guys look like provincial schmucks. new jersey is the butt of a joke in just about every episode of the show.
to lump it in as a 'new york gangster' series that glamorizes 'mobsters' is funny. the whole premise of the show is meant to undercut that glamorous NYC image with the petty, grubby, unhappy and dysfunctional reality of it in NJ.
to lump it in as a 'new york gangster' series that glamorizes 'mobsters' is funny. the whole premise of the show is meant to undercut that glamorous NYC image with the petty, grubby, unhappy and dysfunctional reality of it in NJ.
Is that a real question? I thought you were one of the ones who asked me why I continue to talk to conservative acquaintances. Some of them are intelligent, some aren't very bright. But even they don't go out on murder sprees (that I know of) after watching violent movies.Dilbert_X wrote:
Do you know any actual morons though?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
That's probably a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? You watch violent comic book and war stuff, played violent video games. When was the last time you went out and murdered someone?Dilbert_X wrote:
Monkey see monkey do, if he's on TV he must be a hero.
2% Of the population commit 90% of the crime, they don't see the dark irony in these shows, they think they're a manual for how to live.
They shouldn't be encouraged.
There are plenty of opportunities for great acting which don't involve chopping people up with chainsaws or throwing them in the harbour strapped to a safe.
Again, very reductive on criminality. I don't think it's reasonable to say that as a rule, criminals are criminals because they're imitating what they saw on TV. But then, criminology has a spot on a Venn diagram under social sciences, so likely completely outside of the range of things that interest you.
Also very restrictive on what or what isn't a good or "valid" role. A character can be based on real behaviors (recall Ben Bova's stance on black hat villainy). Some people can be violent and unpleasant. A quality character could be violent and unpleasant, and made to shine with good acting. It's a basic tenet that character flaws make a character interesting. Your taste in genres (which again conflict, who eagerly watches war movies but is put off by violent crimes in TV shows?) doesn't really upset this.
I haven't seen Cats '19 on a far more sound basis than your reason for avoiding Sopranos.Dilbert_X wrote:
A small number of critics decided to attack it and everyone else followed. Happens every year with some unlucky film.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Familiar vibe going on right now. Going to get in ahead of the dilbert reasoning that since we didn't watch Cats 2019 before having an opinion, he's good on making that judgment for Sopranos (dilbert: even if you don't post it, I know you're thinking it tit-for-tat, at least somewhere in the back of your mind).
Again, never mind that Cats '19 is an adaptation of a familiar musical, and was panned by critics, creatives, musical buffs, and Cats fans alike - we can't have a valid reason to pass on it. "Just don't know what we're missing!" One of those productions that particularly sticks out in memory due to being uniquely awful. People competing to see who can lace a review with the most barbs. Of course when someone defends it so vociferously, that also sticks out and bears future comment.
I'm guessing you haven't seen it either.
It's ludicrous to claim that Cats '19 was just unfairly ganged up on by the bandwagon. While that may be true in cases of reddit memes posted by people who wouldn't know any better anyway, Cats '19 has been subject to a number of detailed breakdowns on things that just went wrong (including by people who wanted to like it). Again, I have an informed opinion about Cats '19. You have a hunch about Sopranos.
Don't you watch war documentaries? Chances are you're witnessing war crimes, or things that should be war crimes. Real death and misery, military and civilian, should be more difficult or at least impactful material to digest than Breaking Bad or Sopranos.Dilbert_X wrote:
When do I enjoy watching war crimes on TV?Anyway, I still think it's funny that dilbs likes watching war crimes on TV but balks at a mob drama.
And then there's the laundry list of war movies, and army bro movies that people watch "just for the fun of it." Older films are infested with "white savior in a brown country for its own good" kind of fare, not very introspective at all.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2021-07-13 11:06:08)