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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+431|2523
When you realize civil war ain't for you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout … _is_shown/
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,868|5575|USA

I didn't watch the whole thing but I've encountered self-deprecation as a manipulation tactic. Maybe some part of him was trying to make them feel bad.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4909|eXtreme to the maX

Larssen wrote:

Nah that's media/Biden camp BS mostly. Departments will merrily keep functioning regardless of who the political leadership is or even if there is any political leadership. The NSA doesn't suddenly stop its surveillance, the intelligence agencies don't stop sharing info, the military doesn't start twiddling thumbs etc. 'Business as usual' continues, no matter what, independent from politics.
Except there are still hundreds or thousands of key positions Trump never bothered to fill, of the remainder many were filled with useless or dangerous cronies. There are many examples of good people quitting in these circumstances to no departments are probably in a terrible state after four years of Trump and are likely dysfunctional.
The US civil service as such is very different from Whitehall or France, meanwhile we've had however many years of Johnson trumpifying Whitehall.

So now would be a great moment for Russia or China to do something, and in fact China is doing plenty with no word from the US, eliminating democracy in Hong Kong, running illegal sanctions against a US ally for two.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-11-22 22:55:05)

Epstein didn't kill himself
Larssen
Member
+55|691
Biden's cabinet picks seem mostly disappointing if I'm honest. Very strong preference for people who have played musical chairs in/around top politically appointed positions so long they've effectively become part of the furniture. John Kerry, Janet Yellen etc. Not that I don't like the idea of experience or 'first woman' titles but cmon.

Also this Jake Sullivan, one of the younger picks as National Security Advisor seems a real gem:

He became Vice President Biden's top security aide in February 2013 after Clinton stepped down as U.S. Secretary of State.[14] In those posts, he played a role in shaping U.S. foreign policy towards Libya, Syria, and Myanmar.[10]
After working as a strategist on Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign, Sullivan joined the London and New York–based Macro Advisory Partners in January 2017. Run by former British spy chiefs, Macro Advisory Partners has about 30 full-time staff and reported $37 million in revenue last year.

Macro Advisory Partners has used Sullivan’s involvement as a selling point in offering “trusted counsel in a turbulent world,” with his face atop the roster on their website’s landing page. But when Sullivan publishes a magazine article about U.S. foreign policy or delivers university lectures, he almost always omits this job from his biography.


Though Macro Advisory Partners doesn’t disclose a client list, it would include mining companies in developing countries, sovereign wealth funds, and the rideshare company Uber.

Earlier this year, Sullivan spent several months representing Uber on the other side of the table from labor unions. He was trying to work out an alternative to California’s Assembly Bill 5 legislation, which extended new protections to gig workers, like minimum wage and unemployment. As the law went into effect in January, the $61 billion company negotiated with the SEIU and the Teamsters behind the scenes to create a carve-out that would have let Uber avoid giving benefits to contractors. Sullivan and Macro Advisory Partners declined to comment. A source familiar with the engagement told the Prospect that Sullivan’s work for Uber ended when talks failed to reach an agreement.
So Sullivan, a career lawyer who happened to also have an IR degree went from campaign manager for Clinton's failed primary run for the presidency in 2008 to her foreign policy advisor when she was secretary of state, presiding over the absolute godawful disaster that was Libya, to then somehow advising Biden on that and Syria and Myanmar, to again failing in Clinton's bid for the presidency in 2016 to then sell his soul to one of the shadiest consultancies I've ever seen collecting enormous paychecks without publicly acknowledging it.

Wonderful track record of succes. Considering his vast wealth of experience in fucking up with regards to international security issues I'm also sure he'll be excellent as national security advisor.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-11-24 06:58:57)

uziq
Member
+379|2255
this is exactly as expected and the bargain that most people made when voting for biden. 'restore normality', 'back to business-as-usual'. time to reflood the swamp, i guess.

so laughable that trump's lot tried to portray the dems as having been infiltrated by the 'radical left'. those appointments! practically leninist!
Larssen
Member
+55|691
Surefire way for the democrats to lose out against the republicans in 4 years again. Trump was a fucking moron but his insistence on bringing outside influence to government wasn't the worst thing.

Biden could have made a point here mixing in 'best and brightest', experience, new influences and go for some unconventional picks. Instead he reached into the closet to put the dinosaurs and skeletons back on display. It's like a merry go round back to the last 40 years of government, mixed in with some "progressive" ideas about race & gender representation in a few posts.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+431|2523
Oh please. You clearly don't know what the American right is like. They will find fault with his picks no matter what. The fact that he is picking a bunch of old boring white guys might actually be for the best. It will make at least some republicans less rabid.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+431|2523
Angry conservative mockery from the rural parts of America
https://i.imgur.com/hQI80VV.png
Meanwhile
https://i.imgur.com/qWYuoKt.png
Anyway, what are rural people so angry about? Super bowl half times shows, women's studies majors, coffee with milk, and a congresswoman from some part of New York.
Few city dwellers realize that half the country probably always found the increasingly hyped burlesque half-time shows of the Super Bowl buffoonish, boring, and a time to wash dishes, make a beer run, or shut off the television.
...
Welding and plumbing were drudgery; a barista with $100,000 in debt from her women’s-studies major was considered the next angry Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
This reminds me of the bitter blue collar people angry at white collar workers.
https://i.redd.it/3rjht3njkclx.jpg
Bitter blue collar workers and angry rural people probably are one and the same but still why so much anger?
uziq
Member
+379|2255
the right-wing media and 1%'ers have literally fed these people on a politics of resentment, like grass-fed beef.

dilbert tries to distance himself from the more overt and stupid aspects of right-wing populism, but he's a good example. one of the most resentful, judgmental people you will ever meet. and at what? arts students, apparently, who are the cause of all the world's problems. meanwhile the humanities students/coastal elites/white-collar workers (pick one) literally couldn't care less about the much-aggrieved party. it only goes one way.

the resentment is similar in form to cuckoldry. it's auspicious that the word 'cuck' has been revived almost entirely by the online right-wing/alt-right. the entire thing is a fantasy of humiliation, an imagined insult, a totally projected sense of being judged inferior.

Last edited by uziq (2020-11-24 09:56:04)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,868|5575|USA

That raggedy hand meme in its unironic sense needs to die. Unless you're operating some snag-hazard machinery or at some other task where it's advised against, wear some #*(& gloves appropriate to the job and you won't end up with such obviously dicked-up hands. If it's unviable, clean often and make extra use of some lotion. They sell that stuff at manly auto parts stores. With some people, it's their own lazy or neglectful fault. Enforcing PPE can be like herding cats, and worse than getting blue collars to observe documentation.

On that note, how often do you think the MSDS sheets companies are required to print and have available to the employees for regular perusal are actually read.

@zeek I know at least a few "aggrieved" Trump supporters who wear the left's or educated's apathy for them as a badge of honor.
uziq
Member
+379|2255
a huge majority of the constantly employed, consistently taxpaying populations are engaged in office work or white collar labour. it’s been mainstream since, what, the 1950s?

it’s a little long in the tooth hearing ‘real world’ talk from johnny hayseed who gets paid cash in hand, doesn’t file his taxes properly, and refuses to move out of a husk of a town whose main industry became unviable in 1973.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,868|5575|USA

Why should they change? Hillary called them deplorables!
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+431|2523
I could understand their class resentment just fine. I do not like that they consistently vote against their economic interest anyway. Especially since our economic interest are intertwined. I genuinely want better pay and conditions for those people but a good bunch of them would write me off as working a woman's job, probably gay, socialist, etc. I don't get how anyone could look at me and think I am a member of the elite/enemy just because I am an educated registered nurse.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+431|2523
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/62/e6/f362e6e8f4e17449de880a48d32f6441.jpg
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+756|5488|United States of America
Much like the well-documented subsidizing of red state by blue states, it is always amusing that the same thing exists in urban and rural areas. Illinois has always had a contentious relationship in that regard with Chicago being a top-tier city standing in stark contrast to much of the rest of the state. There was a good Chicago Reader article about the contrasts. Notable excerpt:

Obviously, a lot of downstaters are mad as hell about losing political and economic influence to Chicago. But do Chicagoans even notice? And if they notice, do they even care? No, and probably not. Culturally, Chicagoans don't identify with—or even think much about—the state they inhabit. As a friend puts it, "I'm not an Illinoisan. I'm a Chicagoan." I once mentioned to another Chicago friend that I'd just visited a small town in southern Illinois, "down by the border with Kentucky." She looked at me quizzically. "Illinois doesn't have a border with Kentucky," she said. (This is someone with a master's degree—but not in geography.)
It's weird to me the further away you get that rural people take such pride that they don't partake what the city has to offer (ostensibly as if they're doing it by spiteful choice rather than geographical inconvenience).

*Yes, things like the Chicago Teachers Union and certain political forces have exacerbated the economic issues of state government, but I'm skeptical of that being a "city" thing more than a machine politics thing.

Last edited by DesertFox- (2020-11-24 18:00:22)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,868|5575|USA

Larssen wrote:

Surefire way for the democrats to lose out against the republicans in 4 years again. Trump was a fucking moron but his insistence on bringing outside influence to government wasn't the worst thing.

Biden could have made a point here mixing in 'best and brightest', experience, new influences and go for some unconventional picks. Instead he reached into the closet to put the dinosaurs and skeletons back on display. It's like a merry go round back to the last 40 years of government, mixed in with some "progressive" ideas about race & gender representation in a few posts.
Circling back to this argument: whatever you think of the confirmed choices, it's still a far cry from packing White House positions with a president's family members. That Biden himself is seen as a breath of fresh air says a lot for how grotesque the Trump administration is. Like exiting a reeking outhouse onto a cattle-stank fairground where at least there's air circulation.

That Democrats had to select a cautious candidate says a lot against Trump voters. "Four more years of this, please, with an extra helping of 2020." Like, why.

Also consider the political nature of some of these positions.
uziq
Member
+379|2255
Larssen
Member
+55|691

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Larssen wrote:

Surefire way for the democrats to lose out against the republicans in 4 years again. Trump was a fucking moron but his insistence on bringing outside influence to government wasn't the worst thing.

Biden could have made a point here mixing in 'best and brightest', experience, new influences and go for some unconventional picks. Instead he reached into the closet to put the dinosaurs and skeletons back on display. It's like a merry go round back to the last 40 years of government, mixed in with some "progressive" ideas about race & gender representation in a few posts.
Circling back to this argument: whatever you think of the confirmed choices, it's still a far cry from packing White House positions with a president's family members. That Biden himself is seen as a breath of fresh air says a lot for how grotesque the Trump administration is. Like exiting a reeking outhouse onto a cattle-stank fairground where at least there's air circulation.

That Democrats had to select a cautious candidate says a lot against Trump voters. "Four more years of this, please, with an extra helping of 2020." Like, why.

Also consider the political nature of some of these positions.
I hope that at some point the domination of boomers over public life in your country can come to an end. It's insane to me that so many top positions are occupied by 75 year olds. Next thing we know hillary is going to run again in 2028. Can't these power addicts retire in peace

I don't know if the democrats consciously selected a 'cautious candidate', it just seems the older segment of voters & landed interests are far more influential than anyone else. Anyway, I feel Biden is completely missing the point in simply reversing the clock to what/who he's familiar with. I'm sure the more rabid republicans will find all sorts of reasons to hate him but for those previously not politically involved and the fence sitters 'the swamp' was a powerful rhetorical tool.

Of course Trump replaced that swamp with his own brand of nepotism & cronyism, so no progress there, but a smarter republican can pick up on some of his rhetoric and be much more effective in dismantling democratic safeguards and installing competent loyalists.
uziq
Member
+379|2255
larssen: it's completely fine for macron to dog-whistle to the far-right in order to keep voters away from le pen.
also larssen: omFg i can't believe the dems just reinstated business-as-usual centrism!!!
Larssen
Member
+55|691
Am I not here too advocating for Biden to reach across the aisle on some rather less controversial issues?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4909|eXtreme to the maX

Larssen wrote:

I hope that at some point the domination of boomers over public life in your country can come to an end. It's insane to me that so many top positions are occupied by 75 year olds. Next thing we know hillary is going to run again in 2028. Can't these power addicts retire in peace.
I have read that Gen X is the last one to take an active role in politics, or anything else really.

It used to be the case that people had a job, community involvement - social and/or sporting, often political involvement, charity work, church etc.

Now people do little but work, eat and watch netflix, occasionally turning out for a single issue but otherwise doing nothing but copying memes to each other.

And they wonder why all the politicians are over 75.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+379|2255
what a total load of nonsense. young activism was behind momentum/corbyn, and it was almost solely responsible for bernie and figures like AOC. young activists won states like georgia.

dilbert: goddamn hipsters are being indoctrinated with cultural marxism by lesbian teachers!
also dilbert: the youth aren't political, that's their problem, too lazy and stupid and watching netflix all day.

Last edited by uziq (2020-11-25 05:49:15)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,868|5575|USA

Larssen wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Larssen wrote:

Surefire way for the democrats to lose out against the republicans in 4 years again. Trump was a fucking moron but his insistence on bringing outside influence to government wasn't the worst thing.

Biden could have made a point here mixing in 'best and brightest', experience, new influences and go for some unconventional picks. Instead he reached into the closet to put the dinosaurs and skeletons back on display. It's like a merry go round back to the last 40 years of government, mixed in with some "progressive" ideas about race & gender representation in a few posts.
Circling back to this argument: whatever you think of the confirmed choices, it's still a far cry from packing White House positions with a president's family members. That Biden himself is seen as a breath of fresh air says a lot for how grotesque the Trump administration is. Like exiting a reeking outhouse onto a cattle-stank fairground where at least there's air circulation.

That Democrats had to select a cautious candidate says a lot against Trump voters. "Four more years of this, please, with an extra helping of 2020." Like, why.

Also consider the political nature of some of these positions.
I hope that at some point the domination of boomers over public life in your country can come to an end. It's insane to me that so many top positions are occupied by 75 year olds. Next thing we know hillary is going to run again in 2028. Can't these power addicts retire in peace

I don't know if the democrats consciously selected a 'cautious candidate', it just seems the older segment of voters & landed interests are far more influential than anyone else. Anyway, I feel Biden is completely missing the point in simply reversing the clock to what/who he's familiar with. I'm sure the more rabid republicans will find all sorts of reasons to hate him but for those previously not politically involved and the fence sitters 'the swamp' was a powerful rhetorical tool.

Of course Trump replaced that swamp with his own brand of nepotism & cronyism, so no progress there, but a smarter republican can pick up on some of his rhetoric and be much more effective in dismantling democratic safeguards and installing competent loyalists.
I'd have preferred Bernie or Warren myself, but I'm not all Americans. Democrats are regarded in commentary as having gone for the "safe" choice they thought best stood to defeat Trump. Wouldn't you be happy to get a tumor removed and be back to "business as usual" even if it's not all that great?

As it is, Biden is comfortably past 270 electoral votes with some padding between his and Trump's in popular. Trump didn't even win popular in 2016. Clinton was nearly 3 million votes ahead in 2016, but lost the electoral. Did all your fence sitters really flock to Trump in 2020?

Larssen wrote:

Am I not here too advocating for Biden to reach across the aisle on some rather less controversial issues?
Apparently he plans to reach across the aisle, but it's going to be a question of whether the Republicans will allow it.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,868|5575|USA

Anecdote from imgur:

It's utterly maddening and quite scary.

I follow neutral/centrist news sources to keep my perspective as balanced as possible, and up to date with what's going on. Trumpers are living in a completely alternate reality and there is no way you can change their delusions.

Every day I encounter some completely lunatic perspective that I would never even come up with as a joke. And these perspectives are dead serious, matter of fact, and completely oblivious to any criticism. Any attempt to point out facts or reality is met with accusations of being indoctrinated by "leftist media bias". They treat me like I'm the crazy one for believing Trump is a corrupt con man completely unfit for office.

Just today I was told how the stock market is skyrocketing because Trump is going to stay in office and is fighting the election. If Biden was announced winner the market will collapse. The fact Biden won and was announced the winner a week ago doesn't exist in their world. They twist the reality to suit their delusion. The market is strong because of Trump, not because Biden won.

This isn't even mentioning the COVID hoax beliefs I am constantly bombarded with, even after I explain that I live in a different country and it's a problem outside the US as well! The narrative shifts constantly. It was a total hoax. Then it was overblown. Then it was not a big deal, nobody really dies of it. Then it was the hospitals are ascribing every death to COVID and it's 97% due to other factors. Then it was there is no way there can be this many deaths, other countries have more population density and their deaths are super low. You cannot win any argument with facts because they always have comforting lies to counter everything.

I cannot believe the delusions I'm seeing. It's like I'm living in another reality and glimpsing into a fictional bizarro universe. It's even more terrifying when you realize these people are simply not accepting that Trump lost the election. They are all in on Trump and will not accept any alternative.
The growing power of extreme right wing media (Fox, OANN, Newsmax, Sinclair/Murdoch media, Breitbart, Parler, etc) is reinforcing this bizarro reality beyond anything I've ever witnessed before. There's always been weirdo fringe media on both sides of the spectrum but never accepted by the masses like this.

I remain optimistic that Biden's admin will calm the division and make real progress in spite of Trump's destructive actions, but I fear that the damage is done and will be irreversible. If I didn't have a first hand glimpse into this mindset I wouldn't have believed that "ordinary" people could be this delusional. What was once fringe craziness is now believed by 1/3(?) of Americans, and a shocking number of Canadians too.

As a student of history I'm horrified by how easily millions of people could be brainwashed by incompetent wannabe autocrats. I'm witnessing so many parallels to the rise of fascism in the 1920s and 30s that it's not funny anymore. I genuinely fear to the future of our world (not just the USA).Anyway, I just needed to vent. Every day that goes by I feel like I'm losing touch with reality. Stay safe out there.
https://imgur.com/gallery/3giyN8F
edited for paragraph spacing

It's at once a comfort, and not, seeing stories from people dealing with sometimes similar political discussions I get thrown into. I'd prefer of course to not talk politics at work, but topics wander and it's sometimes impossible to avoid.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,715|4909|eXtreme to the maX
Everyone thinks they are rational and everyone else is delusional.

Pretty well everyone, apart from me, has some level of delusion.
Epstein didn't kill himself

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