and the other half of the trumps are trashing him in the press.
truly the reality television nation.
truly the reality television nation.
belarus: our election was a fucking circus.
usa: hold my meth, cheese burgers, murder rates and beer.
usa: hold my meth, cheese burgers, murder rates and beer.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
sorry, but you really cannot compare the relative embarrassment of the american presidency with what is happening in belarus.
when trump has been president for 20 years and keeps claiming to win with 95% of the votes, you can talk. putin's shit-show does not compare.
i know you think you're very clever by pointing out that 'free elections' in america are fake, the media manipulates everything, the ruling class, etc. get their way by other means, etc, but, please, spare us the 1990s 'media studies' critique. we KNOW.
when trump has been president for 20 years and keeps claiming to win with 95% of the votes, you can talk. putin's shit-show does not compare.
i know you think you're very clever by pointing out that 'free elections' in america are fake, the media manipulates everything, the ruling class, etc. get their way by other means, etc, but, please, spare us the 1990s 'media studies' critique. we KNOW.
Last edited by uziq (2020-08-23 15:31:50)
you keep pretending you can read minds, dude. that's getting kinda old.
but, as always, whatever helps you sleep at night. go ahead and keep calling that shit show "democracy" and stuff. it would even be funny if it weren't so sad.
but, as always, whatever helps you sleep at night. go ahead and keep calling that shit show "democracy" and stuff. it would even be funny if it weren't so sad.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
the irony of a russian saying american democracy isn't real, when your country is actively trying to interfere in their democratic process.
america does have somewhat legitimate votes. voter fraud is trivially low. politicians respect the electoral system and democratic institutions. are there vested interests? obviously. do people 'game' the system? inevitably. is the party system a distortion of democracy? unfortunately, yes, in lieu of better alternatives. but there are votes and the results are legitimate and respected.
belarus has been run by putin's gang for years as a vassal state. winning elections with 90% of the votes. typical loony banana republic stuff, no different from the turkic ex-soviet republics. strong men and corruption. no, america is not that.
https://news.sky.com/story/belarus-oppo … s-12055033
lol. this is not america. sorry, stop drinking so much.
america does have somewhat legitimate votes. voter fraud is trivially low. politicians respect the electoral system and democratic institutions. are there vested interests? obviously. do people 'game' the system? inevitably. is the party system a distortion of democracy? unfortunately, yes, in lieu of better alternatives. but there are votes and the results are legitimate and respected.
belarus has been run by putin's gang for years as a vassal state. winning elections with 90% of the votes. typical loony banana republic stuff, no different from the turkic ex-soviet republics. strong men and corruption. no, america is not that.
https://news.sky.com/story/belarus-oppo … s-12055033
lol. this is not america. sorry, stop drinking so much.
Last edited by uziq (2020-08-23 16:32:23)
To be fair, that's likely not far from the image the president covets. You could photoshop his head into that picture and there's a good possibility he'd see it as complimentary.
Eerie.With demonstrations against his disputed election victory a fortnight ago continuing, Russia's foreign minister claimed the country's opposition politicians want "bloodshed".
there is no democratic process in america. and if there was, and it could be interfered in using fucking social media - as they keep telling everyone it was done - it wouldn't be a democratic process worth shit.uziq wrote:
the irony of a russian saying american democracy isn't real, when your country is actively trying to interfere in their democratic process.
votes don't mean squat when all the names on the ballot belong to the talking heads representing 1% - the ruling capitalist class.america does have somewhat legitimate votes.
and also final. and those elected not answerable to 99% of those who voted them in - only to those who bankroll them.the results are legitimate and respected.
uh-huh. just like ukrainian and baltic fascists, only their sovereigns are in the west.belarus has been run by putin's gang for years as a vassal state.
same shit in different wrappings.winning elections with 90% of the votes. typical loony banana republic stuff, no different from the turkic ex-soviet republics. no, america is not that.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
N O it's not the same shit in a different wrapping.
please let me know where the fascists are in the baltic states, by the way. is this like when mr. belarus says the opposition and protestors are all neo-nazis?
i feel genuinely sorry for you. you're lost in a miasma of cynicism and seem to think the entire world is as fearful and selfish as putin's corrupt russia.
'there is no democratic process in america'. L O L. you are beyond parody. time to disappear into vodka oblivion, methinks.
please let me know where the fascists are in the baltic states, by the way. is this like when mr. belarus says the opposition and protestors are all neo-nazis?
i feel genuinely sorry for you. you're lost in a miasma of cynicism and seem to think the entire world is as fearful and selfish as putin's corrupt russia.
'there is no democratic process in america'. L O L. you are beyond parody. time to disappear into vodka oblivion, methinks.
Last edited by uziq (2020-08-24 09:31:19)
everywhere, according to people who live there. waffen ss veterans are marching in the streets there to commemorate... whatever it is they commemorate.uziq wrote:
please let me know where the fascists are in the baltic states, by the way.
no, it's not like that. it's actual nazies actually marching in the streets.is this like when mr. belarus says the opposition and protestors are all neo-nazis?
the feeling is mutual. you believe in fairytales - literally. democratic process in a capitalist state - it's utter nonsense. but here you are.i feel genuinely sorry for you. you're lost in a miasma of cynicism and seem to think the entire world is as fearful and selfish as putin's corrupt russia.
go ahead. personally, i don't drink alcohol.time to disappear into vodka oblivion, methinks.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
everybody in the west is already au fait with the critiques of capitalism. i don't believe in a 'fairytale' democratic process. we fucking KNOW all the critiques you have in mind. they are the criticisms of a school-child. you are doctrinaire beyond belief. i think you vastly underestimate the everyday sophistication (if that is the word) of western people. liberal voters in the states have been raised on diets of TV shows like the wire, the west wing, the thick of it, etc. the everyday corruption and greed and grifting of the political process is KNOWN to us. we aren't living under some propagandistic illusion.
but it IS the best system we have devised thus far, to quote an old and tedious adage. the USA and belarus are NOT the same thing. presidents serve their terms and do not use chicanery and executive fiat to get around them. they don't rig elections in their favour and exercise a monopoly over the media. is the media in the west politicized? yes! of course. do the interests of the media barons and oligopolies overlap with political interests? yes! of course. but people know this. in russia opposition journalists or vocal critics end up dead. leading opposition politicians get shot in broad daylight or poisoned. IT IS NOT THE SAME THING!
how inane and simplistic a worldview to conclude that political assassinations and 20-year-terms are the same thing as america's electoral democracy. you're living in a comic book version of marx. 'ruling class! capitalism! worker's of the world unite!' yes, yes, we KNOW, we've all read the fucking books. they weren't samizdat here.
but it IS the best system we have devised thus far, to quote an old and tedious adage. the USA and belarus are NOT the same thing. presidents serve their terms and do not use chicanery and executive fiat to get around them. they don't rig elections in their favour and exercise a monopoly over the media. is the media in the west politicized? yes! of course. do the interests of the media barons and oligopolies overlap with political interests? yes! of course. but people know this. in russia opposition journalists or vocal critics end up dead. leading opposition politicians get shot in broad daylight or poisoned. IT IS NOT THE SAME THING!
how inane and simplistic a worldview to conclude that political assassinations and 20-year-terms are the same thing as america's electoral democracy. you're living in a comic book version of marx. 'ruling class! capitalism! worker's of the world unite!' yes, yes, we KNOW, we've all read the fucking books. they weren't samizdat here.
... and still call that shit "democracy" and do fuck all to change it. you literally loose your shit when a serial felon gets murdered by the police - and even that only because of the color of that person's skin - and then do fucking nothing when an actual socialist gets shafted out of the potus candidacy once again. that's the "best system you have devised so far"? i'm not impressed, not one bit.uziq wrote:
yes, yes, we KNOW...
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
words have meanings. the flawed and currently beleaguered system, yes, democracy, is still a helluva lot better than murder in the streets and 'strongmen' disembarking from helicopters carrying rifles. dipshit.
nobody is impressed by YOU, you crank!
nobody is impressed by YOU, you crank!
why do you think george flloyd's murder has anything to do with the DNC/sanders nomination, by the way? don't you know that there's a huge overlap between the street radicalism/protest movements associated with BLM and the sanders/AOC wing of the democratic party? if anything, BLM and george flloyd's murder gave their politics more airtime and more credibility, not less.
it's all very well pissing and moaning about sanders' not getting the nomination, but democratic change is gradual (if at all), not revolutionary. it's kind of in the name. so sure, 4 more years of centrist hegemonic biden shit, that's a bitter pill. but the type of politics inspired by BLM, or xtinction rebellion, all these 'silly' issues you don't care about like racial justice and the environment, are actually building grassroots left/democratic socialist movements. they're doing the groundwork. what are you doing? pissing and moaning on the internet and rejecting every effort with your textbook about 'revolution!'. you are literally fucking hopeless. if america is ever going to see a left-leaning government again, it will be because of the fire in the bellies of all those BLM street activists and young people who are being radicalized by police murder and a manifestly unjust system.
it's all very well pissing and moaning about sanders' not getting the nomination, but democratic change is gradual (if at all), not revolutionary. it's kind of in the name. so sure, 4 more years of centrist hegemonic biden shit, that's a bitter pill. but the type of politics inspired by BLM, or xtinction rebellion, all these 'silly' issues you don't care about like racial justice and the environment, are actually building grassroots left/democratic socialist movements. they're doing the groundwork. what are you doing? pissing and moaning on the internet and rejecting every effort with your textbook about 'revolution!'. you are literally fucking hopeless. if america is ever going to see a left-leaning government again, it will be because of the fire in the bellies of all those BLM street activists and young people who are being radicalized by police murder and a manifestly unjust system.
i don't. i'm comparing the events and reaction that followed.uziq wrote:
why do you think george flloyd's murder has anything to do with the DNC/sanders nomination, by the way?
i know. and they are doing literally nothing. defund the police my ass.don't you know that there's a huge overlap between the street radicalism/protest movements associated with BLM and the sanders/AOC wing of the democratic party?
and still, when their socialist candidate got shafted, they did nothing.if anything, BLM and george flloyd's murder gave their politics more airtime and more credibility, not less.
orly? find me a place where capitalism ended via this "democratic process".it's all very well pissing and moaning about sanders' not getting the nomination, but democratic change is gradual (if at all), not revolutionary.
/facepalmit's kind of in the name. so sure, 4 more years of centrist hegemonic...
blah blah blah...
something something democracy...
you are hopeless, man. keep believing in your santa if you wish, just don't expect me to buy into that bullshit.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
i'm hopeless and you seem to think the future of the world relies upon 'the end of capitalism'.
good luck. didn't work for you russkies, did it? now you're sick little capitalists, an ailing second-rate version.
didn't work for the chinese, either. more capitalist than the west in every way; an improvement, in fact.
feel free to move to north korea to try out society without capitalism.
good luck. didn't work for you russkies, did it? now you're sick little capitalists, an ailing second-rate version.
didn't work for the chinese, either. more capitalist than the west in every way; an improvement, in fact.
feel free to move to north korea to try out society without capitalism.
Last edited by uziq (2020-08-24 11:15:24)
I don't think the basic ordering principles of capitalism are going anywhere. Call me eurocentric but I reckon European models are and will be the go-to for the west at least. Though these need tweaking/adjustment as well. While I have a lot of cynicism for the immediate future, in the long term I imagine/hope for a better public-private partnership and sphere of cooperation. It's going to need a number of fundamental changes first....
Marx's ideas will live on in some form but I think the concept of a communist economy is dead in the water. Banking on the failure of all of capitalism seems unrealistic and frankly a little childish to me.
Marx's ideas will live on in some form but I think the concept of a communist economy is dead in the water. Banking on the failure of all of capitalism seems unrealistic and frankly a little childish to me.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-08-24 11:26:00)
I might disagree here that purely identitarian movements contribute in a good way to furthering socialist development. I honestly can't say if BLM is a great thing yet in that sense. Of course justified and perhaps necessary, but for a different, cultural change; acceptance of democratic and societal diversity. That doesn't automatically help the working poor or middle class. Sometimes it seems to me as though it's a form of regression in which we're all fighting for a piece of the pie based on superficial characteristics (sex, race, gender), while noone seems to notice that the pie itself is getting smaller by the decade. Yet ironically that seems to inflame identity rifts even more.uziq wrote:
why do you think george flloyd's murder has anything to do with the DNC/sanders nomination, by the way? don't you know that there's a huge overlap between the street radicalism/protest movements associated with BLM and the sanders/AOC wing of the democratic party? if anything, BLM and george flloyd's murder gave their politics more airtime and more credibility, not less.
it's all very well pissing and moaning about sanders' not getting the nomination, but democratic change is gradual (if at all), not revolutionary. it's kind of in the name. so sure, 4 more years of centrist hegemonic biden shit, that's a bitter pill. but the type of politics inspired by BLM, or xtinction rebellion, all these 'silly' issues you don't care about like racial justice and the environment, are actually building grassroots left/democratic socialist movements. they're doing the groundwork. what are you doing? pissing and moaning on the internet and rejecting every effort with your textbook about 'revolution!'. you are literally fucking hopeless. if america is ever going to see a left-leaning government again, it will be because of the fire in the bellies of all those BLM street activists and young people who are being radicalized by police murder and a manifestly unjust system.
Last edited by Larssen (2020-08-24 11:37:46)
i agree with that left critique of identitarianism but it still doesn't change the electoral calculus. to get 'left' policies in the white house, the young generation currently being brought into the party by people like AOC/ilhan omar and bernie are going to be the best shot. a helluva lot better chance of getting some 'left' policy points up for discussion through their 'entryism' into mainstream politics than of total revolution or eating the capitalists or whatever the fuck.
Postmaster General Louis DeJoy Testifies on Postal Service Operations and Mail-In Voting
https://www.c-span.org/video/?474917-1/ … ail-voting
5:15:00
"I dunno. I don't wanna guess." etc.
As an aside: ten minutes later, interesting seeing a congressperson having technical difficulties with their mic and unable to remote represent.
"You are now recognized."
"..."
"Can you unmute yourself?"
"..."
https://www.c-span.org/video/?474917-1/ … ail-voting
5:15:00
"I dunno. I don't wanna guess." etc.
As an aside: ten minutes later, interesting seeing a congressperson having technical difficulties with their mic and unable to remote represent.
"You are now recognized."
"..."
"Can you unmute yourself?"
"..."
Republicans copy and paste 2016 GOP platform saying the president ‘has exceeded his constitutional authority’
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/republ … authority/
amazing
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/republ … authority/
amazing
Is it though? At this point? Is it?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
amazing
It's an ongoing source of amazement. Like there's a threshold of ineptitude where effort is required to fail.
yes - me and ever growing number of economists, historians, politicians, philosophers and other people.uziq wrote:
you seem to think the future of the world relies upon 'the end of capitalism'.
won't need luck. the development of human civilization is an objective process. capitalism is going to end, just like every other system before it.good luck.
it did work - spectacularly i might add - for as long as people in charge understood what they were doing.didn't work for you russkies, did it? now you're sick little capitalists, an ailing second-rate version.
so two attempts - the very first two in history - were unsuccessful. which, by historical measures, means exactly... nothing. zilch. nada.didn't work for the chinese, either. more capitalist than the west in every way; an improvement, in fact.
oh, come on, don't go full jay on me now, man. yuck.feel free to move to north korea to try out society without capitalism.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
which principals? like, private property on means of production, which gives a small minority the right to appropriate results of everybody else's labor? aka, blatant theft, written into the law? ordering principals my ass.Larssen wrote:
I don't think the basic ordering principles of capitalism are going anywhere.
yeah, yeah. i'm pretty sure when slavery of ancient times was being replaced by feudalism, larssens of those times we all going "what do you mean all the people are just people? some are clearly just property, beast of burden - just look at them! what childish nonsense these ideas are. there will always be basic ordering principals of slavery."Marx's ideas will live on in some form but I think the concept of a communist economy is dead in the water. Banking on the failure of all of capitalism seems unrealistic and frankly a little childish to me.
now look how far we've come since then.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.