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Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4043|London, England

DesertFox- wrote:

Yes, it's the Democrats fault. Not the unprecedented self-dealing, cronyism, and general scumminess of the current administration. Why can't they just be cool, man? I have no doubt that's how Republicans will see it because they hitched their wagon to a glitzy conman, so even people like Mueller get painted as secret Deep State Democrats for having the gall to try to look behind the curtain.
Dude, do you think Democrats are saints? Do you think there was no corruption or cronyism in the Obama administration? I guess you forgot the way he prosecuted whistleblowers and people that leaked to the media. He was ruthless. If Biden wins, do you think he has nothing to hide? His family made tens of millions of dollars selling his influence.

Last edited by Jay (2020-07-11 12:42:03)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,865|5317|949

Obama weakened privacy, signed off on extrajudicial killings, went after whistle-blowers...there's plenty of things to criticize.

But Obama is no longer president. We are talking about the Trump White House. Trump has set more precedents regarding the fulfillment of the role of President that it will likely be studied in academic settings in the future. That's the best possible takeaway from the last 4 years.

Jay, reminder: you hate the lack of unification, but every time someone says something about Republicans you pull the "b-b-but what about Joe Biden." "Hillary would have been worse."

You are part of the problem you pretend to worry about.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4043|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Obama weakened privacy, signed off on extrajudicial killings, went after whistle-blowers...there's plenty of things to criticize.

But Obama is no longer president. We are talking about the Trump White House. Trump has set more precedents regarding the fulfillment of the role of President that it will likely be studied in academic settings in the future. That's the best possible takeaway from the last 4 years.

Jay, reminder: you hate the lack of unification, but every time someone says something about Republicans you pull the "b-b-but what about Joe Biden." "Hillary would have been worse."

You are part of the problem you pretend to worry about.
Nah, I'm not though. I'm not defending Trump, I'm lamenting the complete loss of civility. Our country made it through nearly 250 years of orderly transitions from one President to the next, with the previous President peacefully stepping aside. That was the precedent that George Washington set, and it has been followed perfectly. Now a new precedent has been set that, if the outgoing administration really, really hates the incoming one, they will undermine them from the start and prosecute their cohorts. This is the kind of shit that eventually leads to one of them saying "You know what? I don't want to leave". Remember when the Bush administration complained about the Clinton administration trashing the place and stealing phones and stuff on their way out the door? Seems quaint now.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,812|5457|USA

It's probably foolhardy to pretend that things have always been civil in US government Until Recently.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,743|5378
Our society was subverted by the Soviets and the effects are still unfolding. When things get tough, don’t forget to love thy neighbor.
x
What bloody man is that? NOT MACBETH
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+741|5370|United States of America

Jay wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

Yes, it's the Democrats fault. Not the unprecedented self-dealing, cronyism, and general scumminess of the current administration. Why can't they just be cool, man? I have no doubt that's how Republicans will see it because they hitched their wagon to a glitzy conman, so even people like Mueller get painted as secret Deep State Democrats for having the gall to try to look behind the curtain.
Dude, do you think Democrats are saints? Do you think there was no corruption or cronyism in the Obama administration? I guess you forgot the way he prosecuted whistleblowers and people that leaked to the media. He was ruthless. If Biden wins, do you think he has nothing to hide? His family made tens of millions of dollars selling his influence.
Aww shucks, really? I guess I'll have to tear down the Obama Hope & ChangeTM poster I definitely own. To a certain extent, there was a "normal" amount we tolerated as a society, yes. The sort of thing that lets people say "yeah, all politicians are crooked" because it sounds deep while removing any obligation to know things and have nuance. Society largely seems to tolerate it if they do the song and dance to hide it. The blatant shit these days riles up even the most dispassionate observer, though.

I also am not a fan of the "gotcha" style of oversight is the what the party people do as they pretend to care when it's their opponents and ignore it when it's their team. I want competent people in government, regardless, doing the jobs they are meant to. I don't think you realize just how shady the Trump organization is, though. There's well-documented evidence of shady shit for decades, in addition to always being adjacent to people also involved in money laundering, organized crime, and so on.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4791|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

the Clinton administration trashing the place and stealing phones and stuff on their way out the door? Seems quaint now.
Where do you get this stuff?

What I remember was the Clinton administration offering an orderly handover and to brief the Bush admin on ongoing issues, such as Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, and the Bush admin responded with "we don't need anything from you, GTFO" then whined that 9/11 completely blindsided them.

Is there a precedent for a presidential candidate spending literally the entire campaign threatening to prosecute and imprison his rival? For minor issues that he then did ten times over?
Trump blew up all civility in govt with that and his inauguration performance. Thank god it had the biggest crowd ever to witness it.

At this point I think you've gone full Glenn Beck, you're unhinged and disconnected from reality, parroting the nonsense you spend your days lapping up goggle-eyed from the neo-con interwebs.
Epstein didn't kill himself
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+358|2405
Jay sincerely believes Barack Obama was the worst president in American history. I don't know how you can say something like that especially considering the two presidents he is bracketed by.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4043|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay sincerely believes Barack Obama was the worst president in American history. I don't know how you can say something like that especially considering the two presidents he is bracketed by.
Not the worst. Absolutely the most overhyped. Too many shitty things his administration did were waved off by a protective media.

Last edited by Jay (2020-07-12 09:40:49)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+358|2405

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay sincerely believes Barack Obama was the worst president in American history. I don't know how you can say something like that especially considering the two presidents he is bracketed by.
Not the worst. Absolutely the most overhyped. Too many shitty things his administration did were waved off by a protective media.
Do you think he was a better president than Bush or Trump?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4043|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay sincerely believes Barack Obama was the worst president in American history. I don't know how you can say something like that especially considering the two presidents he is bracketed by.
Not the worst. Absolutely the most overhyped. Too many shitty things his administration did were waved off by a protective media.
Do you think he was a better president than Bush or Trump?
Trump, yes. Bush, about equal.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+358|2405
What was Obama's equivalent of the Great Recession or Iraq War?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4791|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

This is the kind of shit that eventually leads to one of them saying "You know what? I don't want to leave".
Amazing, in the eyes of the masses Trump has managed to delegitimise the press, the FBI, Congress, the justice system and now democracy itself right up to and including the constitution.

And people like Jay lap it up and argue for it.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+300|2137
trumps favourite word of 2020 seems to be 'unprecedented'. i'm sure what he means is un-presidented, because god knows that his inaction is going to cost 250,000 american lives.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ec-ccgMXgAA6LLM?format=png&name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ec-cdbkXgAIfxJT?format=png&name=4096x4096

Last edited by uziq (2020-07-15 08:56:54)

uziq
Member
+300|2137


unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,812|5457|USA

Teflon Don 2020.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,812|5457|USA

Entering the Goya arc of the Trump family saga. (Maybe ignorantly) breaking the law by using their positions to promote Goya products to thank Goya CEO for support, and to "troll the libs." Meanwhile, it's the libs being unreasonable by "siccing cancel culture on Goya CEO."

It feels like we're beyond throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks. It's piled up at the base to the extent where there's very little visible part of the wall left. Where do you even begin separating the new crap from the old.
uziq
Member
+300|2137
they distract from major failures with minor media-hogging peccadilloes. very classic technique. simply control the media churn for 24 or even 12 hours and you manage to stagger onwards, the major conflagrations burning out of control in the background kept out of sight.

it's much easier to get mad about ivanka 'abusing her public office' to 'endorse products' than it is to comprehend that every hospital authority have now been instructed to stop sending their covid stats to the CDC and to send them to a private white house server.

Last edited by uziq (2020-07-16 02:40:15)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,812|5457|USA

Pretty used to the smoke and mirrors at this point.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,812|5457|USA

Latest in tales from Trumper contacts. One just now on the mad track about China's treatment of the Uyghur population, while previously having tacitly supported it because Muslims Are Bad. Paraphrased, "the Chinese don't take no guff and know how they must be governed."

From June, with little fanfare:

Trump signs sanctions bill over China’s Uyghur ‘concentration camps’
https://nypost.com/2020/06/17/trump-sig … ion-camps/

The White House announced the bill signing about an hour after bombshell allegations in former White House National Security Adviser John Bolton’s forthcoming book that Trump told Chinese President Xi Jinping he approved of “concentration camps” used to detain thousands of Uyghurs in western China.
Any coincidence, I wonder.

It's an amazing resource to have for insight into how some Americans think.
uziq
Member
+300|2137


bUt oBamA waS woRse!!

Last edited by uziq (2020-07-16 09:18:39)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,812|5457|USA

It really is amazing how quickly "pro-military republicans" turn on the military the moment generals started voicing their opinion, yet still have the gall to wave the "respect our troops" banner.
uziq
Member
+300|2137
if there is any electoral justice whatsoever, trump's total failure of leadership should break him politically. he should be doomed at the elections.

he has functionally absconded for the last half a year. he talks more about the stock market and petty grievances than about dead americans. or bounty-hunted US servicemen. he has totally vacated the actual office of state. all of his public appearances serve as political rallies or attempts to 'play to the crowd', the usual high-pantomime stage act. there has been zero leadership.

he seemingly does not care about american lives. i'm not sure he even has the capacity, cognitively speaking. he is clearly hoping it will 'all go away', i.e. some very hardworking scientists, whom he has continually undermined and demonized, will develop a miracle-cure vaccine and it'll be cleared up by election time. very unlikely.
Larssen
Member
+29|573
I haven't seen him deviate from his usual behaviour in the last 4 years. Anyone who ever considered him a competent leader is a moron.
uziq
Member
+300|2137
yes, agreed. unfortunately covid-19 is an unavoidable crisis which cannot be parried away with media spectacle or other diversions. it's a brute fact and must be dealt with using actual federal-scale leadership. unlike all the other imbroglios which have been susceptible to spin or accusations of partisanship, covid-19 has posed him with an actual, concrete challenge to leadership. and he has failed.

it's the equivalent of a president halting and faltering when the US comes under direct attack or invasion. his whole reason for existing has gone out the window.

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