KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6634|949

Jay wrote:

Pochsy wrote:

I never really understood this common American criticism of a politician "not uniting the country". How is that in any way a reasonable aspiration for any politician when 80% of the population has already decided on who they are voting for before the election is announced? 40% in any scenario is going to be pissed off. Maybe 10% will be ok-enough with a stellar opposition leader.

I guess my point is: what the fuck is the point of saying that?
Some politicians can be transcendent if they are charismatic enough. We're at a very low point in our country politically where half the country starts screaming and yelling and threatening and throwing hissy fits when the other side is in power. I will say that it got worse this time. There is usually at least some honeymoon period where the other side says "I don't like his opinions but I respect the office" which lasts until the first disagreement. Never happened this time, and with the endless tit for tat and oneupmanship from both extremes, I'm afraid it never will happen again.
I'm willing to bet it had more to do with who Trump is as a person. The guy is a shit stain human being, everyone can see that from far away, and his sycophants will never admit it because doing so would mean they were wrong. Instead you get backpedaling, "I don't necessarily like the guy, but he got us 2 supreme court justices." or "I don't like a lot of what he is doing, but on China he has really won."

Nevermind that these arguments are in bad faith.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6694
The reason there wasn’t that “I respect the office” grace period with most people who didn’t vote Trump is because he was already marked as an absurd pos before he was even elected. “Grab em by the pussy”
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6107|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

the guy is prioritizing the enriching of his own family over the good of the nation.
That is the definition of libertarianism though.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5360|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:

Pochsy wrote:

I never really understood this common American criticism of a politician "not uniting the country". How is that in any way a reasonable aspiration for any politician when 80% of the population has already decided on who they are voting for before the election is announced? 40% in any scenario is going to be pissed off. Maybe 10% will be ok-enough with a stellar opposition leader.

I guess my point is: what the fuck is the point of saying that?
Some politicians can be transcendent if they are charismatic enough. We're at a very low point in our country politically where half the country starts screaming and yelling and threatening and throwing hissy fits when the other side is in power. I will say that it got worse this time. There is usually at least some honeymoon period where the other side says "I don't like his opinions but I respect the office" which lasts until the first disagreement. Never happened this time, and with the endless tit for tat and oneupmanship from both extremes, I'm afraid it never will happen again.
I'm willing to bet it had more to do with who Trump is as a person. The guy is a shit stain human being, everyone can see that from far away, and his sycophants will never admit it because doing so would mean they were wrong. Instead you get backpedaling, "I don't necessarily like the guy, but he got us 2 supreme court justices." or "I don't like a lot of what he is doing, but on China he has really won."

Nevermind that these arguments are in bad faith.
Maybe. He's very abrasive and did spend much of his campaign shitting on reporters. But, I'm old enough to remember the way the press treated Bush, and it wasn't much better. He got called an idiot all day long by the same media that fawned all over Obama, and who have made it their mission to destroy Trump. Clinton's loss provoked absolute unmitigated rage, and it hasn't let up in over four years. I think Trump could be as (largely) benign as Bush was and he would still be facing the same amount of criticism, contempt and hatred.

But you do understand it doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition, right? That sort of thinking is how we ended up in this extremely polarized environment in the first place. I can like that he nominated Gorsuch to the Supreme Court and hate the rest of his presidency. It doesn't make me a bad person, or an enabler. It doesn't make me a racist, or a misogynist or any other epithet you want to hurl at me. I think most of his policies are shit, and I think that he is a shitty human being, which is why I voted for Gary Johnson last time and will probably vote for Jo Jorgenson this time. I get to be in the unenviable position, perched somewhere in the middle, that gets to call out both sides when they're being unreasonable. Doesn't win me any friends, but I get to keep my integrity.

Last edited by Jay (2020-07-09 16:36:30)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6773|PNW

Superior Mind wrote:

The reason there wasn’t that “I respect the office” grace period with most people who didn’t vote Trump is because he was already marked as an absurd pos before he was even elected. “Grab em by the pussy”
I don't think even the president respects the office. And if he thinks he does, then he doesn't know how to.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5360|London, England

Superior Mind wrote:

The reason there wasn’t that “I respect the office” grace period with most people who didn’t vote Trump is because he was already marked as an absurd pos before he was even elected. “Grab em by the pussy”
Maybe. I think people felt cheated because Clinton lost and their first reaction was to undermine him and "resist" him. Her voter base was as enthusiastic about her, and the idea of a woman winning office, as Trump's was about hating Hillary and sticking it to the coastal elites.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5360|London, England

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Superior Mind wrote:

The reason there wasn’t that “I respect the office” grace period with most people who didn’t vote Trump is because he was already marked as an absurd pos before he was even elected. “Grab em by the pussy”
I don't think even the president respects the office. And if he thinks he does, then he doesn't know how to.
He certainly didn't when Obama was in charge.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6694
Obviously it shoulda been Bernie not Hilary. This time around too. The whole democratic voting base is splintered because of this. That’s why Trump is prob gonna get re-elected. I wanted Tulsi honestly.
uziq
Member
+492|3454

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:

Pochsy wrote:

I never really understood this common American criticism of a politician "not uniting the country". How is that in any way a reasonable aspiration for any politician when 80% of the population has already decided on who they are voting for before the election is announced? 40% in any scenario is going to be pissed off. Maybe 10% will be ok-enough with a stellar opposition leader.

I guess my point is: what the fuck is the point of saying that?
Some politicians can be transcendent if they are charismatic enough. We're at a very low point in our country politically where half the country starts screaming and yelling and threatening and throwing hissy fits when the other side is in power. I will say that it got worse this time. There is usually at least some honeymoon period where the other side says "I don't like his opinions but I respect the office" which lasts until the first disagreement. Never happened this time, and with the endless tit for tat and oneupmanship from both extremes, I'm afraid it never will happen again.
I'm willing to bet it had more to do with who Trump is as a person. The guy is a shit stain human being, everyone can see that from far away, and his sycophants will never admit it because doing so would mean they were wrong. Instead you get backpedaling, "I don't necessarily like the guy, but he got us 2 supreme court justices." or "I don't like a lot of what he is doing, but on China he has really won."

Nevermind that these arguments are in bad faith.
err i think trump set the tone on his fucking acceptance speech? and that infamous oath of office speech?

you have to remember that bannon was writing the speeches back then and dictating the tone. that new 'american carnage' or whatever the phrase was. it was extremely combative and graceless. even basically tearing up obama's legacy on the podium whilst all the ex-presidents sat behind. it was totally against the grain.

the culpability is not equally shared between disappointed clinton supporters and trump. trump's team very consciously took it there.

Last edited by uziq (2020-07-09 16:54:58)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5360|London, England

Superior Mind wrote:

Obviously it shoulda been Bernie not Hilary. This time around too. The whole democratic voting base is splintered because of this. That’s why Trump is prob gonna get re-elected. I wanted Tulsi honestly.
She was probably the best of the bunch
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6107|eXtreme to the maX

Superior Mind wrote:

The reason there wasn’t that “I respect the office” grace period with most people who didn’t vote Trump is because he was already marked as an absurd pos before he was even elected. “Grab em by the pussy”
I've said before, whenever a Republican is in all we hear is "he's your President, you have to respect him, he's the commander in chief, you have to obey him, he was democratically elected, get with the program or GTFO"

When its a democrat "I didn't vote for him, he's not my president, he's not even legitimate and I'm going to do everything in my power to undermine him"
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6634|949

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:


Some politicians can be transcendent if they are charismatic enough. We're at a very low point in our country politically where half the country starts screaming and yelling and threatening and throwing hissy fits when the other side is in power. I will say that it got worse this time. There is usually at least some honeymoon period where the other side says "I don't like his opinions but I respect the office" which lasts until the first disagreement. Never happened this time, and with the endless tit for tat and oneupmanship from both extremes, I'm afraid it never will happen again.
I'm willing to bet it had more to do with who Trump is as a person. The guy is a shit stain human being, everyone can see that from far away, and his sycophants will never admit it because doing so would mean they were wrong. Instead you get backpedaling, "I don't necessarily like the guy, but he got us 2 supreme court justices." or "I don't like a lot of what he is doing, but on China he has really won."

Nevermind that these arguments are in bad faith.
Maybe. He's very abrasive and did spend much of his campaign shitting on reporters. But, I'm old enough to remember the way the press treated Bush, and it wasn't much better. He got called an idiot all day long by the same media that fawned all over Obama, and who have made it their mission to destroy Trump. Clinton's loss provoked absolute unmitigated rage, and it hasn't let up in over four years. I think Trump could be as (largely) benign as Bush was and he would still be facing the same amount of criticism, contempt and hatred.

But you do understand it doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition, right? That sort of thinking is how we ended up in this extremely polarized environment in the first place. I can like that he nominated Gorsuch to the Supreme Court and hate the rest of his presidency. It doesn't make me a bad person, or an enabler. It doesn't make me a racist, or a misogynist or any other epithet you want to hurl at me. I think most of his policies are shit, and I think that he is a shitty human being, which is why I voted for Gary Johnson last time and will probably vote for Jo Jorgenson this time. I get to be in the unenviable position, perched somewhere in the middle, that gets to call out both sides when they're being unreasonable. Doesn't win me any friends, but I get to keep my integrity.
Trump got called an idiot because he is in fact, demonstrably an idiot. Bush...see above. Clinton was called a hillbilly by the media. Obama was called a Muslim. If you can't sift out the obvious differences there, that's on you. The fact is Trump is not benign, so we don't even have to argue that hypothetical.

I'm not specifically calling out you (unless you consider yourself a Trump sycophant...), im calling out the fake Christians who support Trump because he fights the moral wars for them. I'm calling out people who either support Trump for a singular reason, or are caught in Stockholm syndrome where they vote against their own interests.

To be honest, Jay, your worldview aligns closer to neoliberalism than libertarianism, judging by what you advocate here. And that's fine- you yourself mentioned youre in the middle. I think you'd probably be better served realigning your compass to your actual views.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5360|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:


I'm willing to bet it had more to do with who Trump is as a person. The guy is a shit stain human being, everyone can see that from far away, and his sycophants will never admit it because doing so would mean they were wrong. Instead you get backpedaling, "I don't necessarily like the guy, but he got us 2 supreme court justices." or "I don't like a lot of what he is doing, but on China he has really won."

Nevermind that these arguments are in bad faith.
Maybe. He's very abrasive and did spend much of his campaign shitting on reporters. But, I'm old enough to remember the way the press treated Bush, and it wasn't much better. He got called an idiot all day long by the same media that fawned all over Obama, and who have made it their mission to destroy Trump. Clinton's loss provoked absolute unmitigated rage, and it hasn't let up in over four years. I think Trump could be as (largely) benign as Bush was and he would still be facing the same amount of criticism, contempt and hatred.

But you do understand it doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition, right? That sort of thinking is how we ended up in this extremely polarized environment in the first place. I can like that he nominated Gorsuch to the Supreme Court and hate the rest of his presidency. It doesn't make me a bad person, or an enabler. It doesn't make me a racist, or a misogynist or any other epithet you want to hurl at me. I think most of his policies are shit, and I think that he is a shitty human being, which is why I voted for Gary Johnson last time and will probably vote for Jo Jorgenson this time. I get to be in the unenviable position, perched somewhere in the middle, that gets to call out both sides when they're being unreasonable. Doesn't win me any friends, but I get to keep my integrity.
Trump got called an idiot because he is in fact, demonstrably an idiot. Bush...see above. Clinton was called a hillbilly by the media. Obama was called a Muslim. If you can't sift out the obvious differences there, that's on you. The fact is Trump is not benign, so we don't even have to argue that hypothetical.

I'm not specifically calling out you (unless you consider yourself a Trump sycophant...), im calling out the fake Christians who support Trump because he fights the moral wars for them. I'm calling out people who either support Trump for a singular reason, or are caught in Stockholm syndrome where they vote against their own interests.

To be honest, Jay, your worldview aligns closer to neoliberalism than libertarianism, judging by what you advocate here. And that's fine- you yourself mentioned youre in the middle. I think you'd probably be better served realigning your compass to your actual views.
There's a lot of overlap. Neoliberals and libertarians basically want the same things, they just have opposing approaches. Free trade, free speech, free minds etc. these are the ideals. One side is optimistic about humans and skeptical of systems, and the other is skeptical of humans and optimistic about systems. I am, in my mind, in the correct camp.

I think humans in general are plenty smart enough to get through their day without much in the way of coercion from on high. Educate them and they'll generally make the right decision. I'm willing to accept non-compliance on the part of some in order to avoid coercion. This makes for a more chaotic society, but a free one. The neoliberals believe in the education bit too, but they also believe in coercion to force compliance. They want order, and they want people to listen to their betters, and to treat the advice they are being given the same as if they were receiving orders. I question if the "betters" actually know what they're doing half the time.

As long as people aren't hurting others, or infringing on their freedoms, or injuring their ability to care for themselves and their loved ones, I honestly don't care much about what they do.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5360|London, England
In the United States, the road to economic success is open because the road to economic failure is open.

That’s the basic American proposition: We have an unregimented business culture, easy credit, a forgiving bankruptcy regime, and a “hold my beer” model of entrepreneurship. Sure, we are savages, but we invent basically all the cool stuff. You want to invent cool stuff, too, go to Palo Alto; you want to work in a bank, go to Zurich; you want to be a bureaucrat, go to Toulouse. There isn’t anything wrong with being a banker or a bureaucrat — the world needs both. But the United States is oriented in a different direction, which is why the class of people who want to be nonprofit executives sometimes long for a more European mode of life while the people who want to pound Four Loko and crash their Lamborghinis into 7-Elevens at 4 a.m. prefer the American way.

It’s not about class, obviously. For all of our democratic, post-class pretensions, it isn’t the case that everybody in the United States starts from the same place. Not by a damned sight. And that’s what really gets up some people’s noses. Some people believe — the way only fanatics can believe — that any unfairness in a situation or a system morally invalidates the situation or system as a whole. And the basic complaint is pretty easy to understand. Some people have to work really hard just to get to the place where some other people start off with not much effort at all. Some people have to save for years to put a responsible down payment on a house, and some people just get the money from their parents. Some people get their shot at their first big job or big project because they know somebody in the field already, while other people are on the outside looking in, in spite of their talent or ambition. Relationships matter enormously, especially in elite occupations and enterprises. Most people don’t get a big job on Wall Street or in media or publishing because they answered a “Help Wanted” ad. (But those ads in the back of The Economist are pretty awesome.) You can read Chaucer anywhere — you go to Harvard to meet the people who are going to hook you up.

And so it isn’t really the case that the United States doesn’t have a kind of class system, though it is by no means the kind of network of rigid and controlling hierarchies that you still see in some other places around the world, including a lot of the countries that many of us admire. If you have two parents who met at Princeton, life is likely to look different for you than if you have two parents who dropped out of high school. But, in spite of that, we do not have much of a hereditary economic elite. Of course we have the usual inevitable smattering of Waltons and Hiltons and Trumps, who go about the business of being heirs with varying degrees of good taste and public-mindedness. But as the Bureau of Labor Statistics runs the numbers, inherited assets and gifts make up only about 15 percent of the wealth of the wealthiest 20 percent of Americans — in fact, inherited assets make up a much larger share of the wealth of the poor than of the rich, about 43 percent for the least wealthy quintile and 31 percent for the next quintile.

Of course 15 percent of $1 million is more than 40 percent of $80,000, but that isn’t the point. The point is that the difference in wealth between wealthy and non-wealthy Americans is overwhelmingly the result of work and investment, not of picking the right parents. You don’t get to choose where you start, but the basic tools of prosperity on the American plan are widely available. Americans should make more and better use of them.

Almost all of the wealthiest Americans are people who were involved in starting companies, not people who inherited fortunes: Bezos, Gates, Buffett, Zuckerberg, Ellison, Page, Bloomberg, Ballmer, Knight, Adelson, Dell, Musk, Icahn. (The Kochs inherited a small fortune and made it into a vast one.) Among the wealthiest Americans, there are a few Waltons, a Lauder, the Widow Jobs, and the former Mrs. Bezos — and a whole lot of people who started new important enterprises in our own time: Amazon, Microsoft, Facebook, Oracle, Google, Bloomberg, Dell, Tesla, eBay. Those companies have produced a few billionaires, many thousands of millionaires, countless high-paying jobs, and big returns for investors everywhere from Sand Hill Road to teachers’ retirement funds. You don’t need a Harvard Business School degree to make money on Wall Street — you need five minutes to set up an online brokerage account.

On the Forbes list, you won’t see very many fortunes based on old companies, though there are a few, including Mars and Kohler. The Hilton fortune has proved surprisingly durable, but other famous fortunes have not: Poor Anderson Cooper, a Vanderbilt, has to work for a living; the Hartford fortune was gone in a generation; Michael Jackson was a half billion dollars in debt when he died. (His estate has since made a nice recovery.) There’s a fair chance that Chelsea Clinton’s grandkids will work at Starbucks. Or maybe they won’t. American capitalism can be a wild ride.

We do not have the kind of deeply egalitarian culture that you may see in the Nordic countries, but we also do not have Janteloven, the inescapable informal law of the northern village that demands: Who are you to think you know better? Who are you to try to change things? Who are you to think you’re smarter than we are? That kind of culture may encourage a certain kind of solidarity, but it also inhibits risk-taking and entrepreneurship. That’s why if you look at the list of biggest American companies, you will see names such as Amazon, Apple, and Alphabet, whereas the biggest German companies are thriving creatures of the 19th century such as Allianz and big automotive conglomerates: Volkswagen, BMW, etc. Norway’s biggest businesses are a state-owned oil company, a partly state-owned aluminum company, and a state-owned telecom. France’s billionaires are on-brand: the Louis Vuitton guy, the Chanel guys, the Château Latour guy, the Aga Khan out there in Aiglemont . . .

Rich European countries with big welfare states have some very enviable characteristics, among them high levels of social mobility, with Denmark, Sweden, and Norway leading the world rankings on that score. The United States does not do as well, though it outperforms the United Kingdom and big European countries such as France and Germany. The American model — which is as much a matter of culture as a matter of policy — produces more pie-eyed billionaire dreams, but also more actual billionaires and businesses of global significance. Maybe you don’t care about billionaires. I don’t care very much about them, either, but the entrepreneurial dynamism that creates those billionaires matters for the prosperity of people far removed from the commanding heights of Silicon Valley and Wall Street: U.S. GDP per capita is about 20 percent higher than that of Denmark, Sweden, or Germany, as the IMF runs the numbers for 2020, and 39 percent higher than that of France. The United States could — and should — do much more in the pursuit of what the politicians like to call “shared prosperity” (they call it that mainly because they do not understand the ways in which our prosperity already is shared), but the more prosperity you have, the more you have to share.

In the great contest between predictability and dynamism, the United States has traditionally leaned pretty hard on dynamism, at least in comparison to the welfare states of Western Europe and the Nordic countries that our progressives profess to admire so intensely. That presents trade-offs, like everything else in life. If you want to have a nice life as a college professor, you’d probably be happier in Denmark, where there is a very comfortable welfare state, or in Switzerland, where universities pay the highest academic salaries in the world. If you want to launch a technology startup or take your technology-startup money and create a new automobile company from scratch — ask yourself this: Who is the big Danish innovator on the Internet? Denmark’s biggest company, by far, is Maersk, a firm whose fundamental technology dates from about 3000 b.c. That is not intended as a snub of Denmark or Maersk — there is a great deal to admire about both. But if you are of a mind to try something radical and new, you get on the airplane in CPH and you land at SFO.

Progressives are down on American capitalism because they are the people who are, or want to be, college professors and the like. And, if that’s you, I get why you might prefer Denmark. It’s no mystery. There’s a lot to like about it. But it is not a moral failing of the United States that the political and aesthetic preferences of that blessed class of people do not prevail from sea to shining sea. We do things differently here — bonkers, dangerous, ingenious, beautiful.

1
Steve Jobs you know — how about Yaakoub Hijazi? He took over his immigrant father’s failing commercial-laundry business when he was 19 years old and his father died of cancer. The business had tax and sewer liens on it and was on the verge of insolvency. He had to take out a $300,000 loan to reorganize, and getting a $300,000 loan is something a 19-year-old commercial-laundry neophyte can do here. That laundry is a $150 million concern today, according to Forbes. Lebanon, where the Hijazi family comes from, is a proud old country, but it runs on family and patronage, not big ideas and easy credit. So Yaakoub Hijazi found his success here.

Maybe you will, too. Maybe you won’t. Not everybody wins, but anybody can get in the game.
https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine … %e2%80%88/

Kevin D. Williamson is really the only reason I have a NR subscription. I believe I hit nearly every one of these points about welfare states the other day in conversation with uzi...

Last edited by Jay (2020-07-09 18:28:31)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+492|3454
as the beneficiary of an 'elite and networked' publishing job who hopes to end up as a 'college professor' among the 'blessed class', no surprises i disagree with him on just about every point and envy americans nothing.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6107|eXtreme to the maX
Yes I'm sure every 19 year old american can get a $300,000 dollar loan no problem.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5360|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Yes I'm sure every 19 year old american can get a $300,000 dollar loan no problem.
To go to college? Sure, and completely unsecured.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6107|eXtreme to the maX
This was to bail out a business, dur.

Don't student loans either need to be federal loans - in which case you don't have a default option - or need a cosignor?

I'll stick my neck out and say you're wrong on this too, and why didn't you take one instead of join the army?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5360|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

This was to bail out a business, dur.

Don't student loans either need to be federal loans - in which case you don't have a default option - or need a cosignor?

I'll stick my neck out and say you're wrong on this too, and why didn't you take one instead of join the army?
92% of student loans are held by the Federal Government. The debt can not be discharged in bankruptcy.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+492|3454
it's just typical bootstrap rhetoric. 'all the tools are there, you just have to go get 'em!' play the stock market! play the game!

totally trivialises the fact that the vast majority of americans get nowhere, and are being left behind by a tiny elite.

citing massive first-generation billionaire wealth is the equivalent of telling someone not to go to college because bill gates was a dropout.

i prefer to look at systemic trends rather than specious conservative sanguinity.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6107|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

This was to bail out a business, dur.

Don't student loans either need to be federal loans - in which case you don't have a default option - or need a cosignor?

I'll stick my neck out and say you're wrong on this too, and why didn't you take one instead of join the army?
92% of student loans are held by the Federal Government. The debt can not be discharged in bankruptcy.
And isn't there an upper limit on federal loans?
So unless they have rich parents with the assets to cosign a loan the average 19 year old can't simply borrow $300,000 to go to college.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3721
Someone I know has to take summer graduate courses. 3 credits for $2000 at a public university. 3 credits for $3000 at a private. It's all too much.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,736|6739|Oxferd Ohire
thats why you go to business school so your employer pays for your mba so you can fire people
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
uziq
Member
+492|3454
you would have to be insane to borrow that much money for college. it is absolutely a punitive burden in america.

i read some report somewhere, i can't remember right now, asking people at the end of their lives about their regrets. an overwhelming number of americans commented on the financing of their college degrees. graduate school. etc. like dragging around all that debt their whole lives caused them significant strain and emotional anxiety. fuck that.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6107|eXtreme to the maX
Education through first degree should be free to everyone.

There I'm a communist.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

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