uziq
Member
+492|3448

Shahter wrote:

don't fret, i didn't return to tell you anything, sweetie. you are so far gone, i just won't bother, sorry.

what i'm doing is reading this thread - elections draw near, so i thought i'd amuse myself, you know. then Larssen asked a question and i posted some of the posts i stumbled upon.
so far gone with what? 'western indoctrination'?

why are you citing a jonathan pie video, in that case?
uziq
Member
+492|3448

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

if kanye west runs for president, does that mean the 0.5% of MAGA-supporting african-americans will split from trump's vote into an independent?

OMG big moves.
More likely it will take away most of Biden's black votes and Trump will win.
i don't think that black democrat voters are big kanye west fans. especially since he came out in a major way in support of trump.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX
Do you think Kanye West fans rationalise in that way? Or at all?

I mean, have you actually heard any of his stuff?

You motherfuckers better do your job and roll up and watch how we roll up and
I can't control it, can't hold it, it's so nuts
I take a sip of that yak, I wanna fuck
I take a hit of that chronic, it got me stuck
But really what's amazing is how I keep blazing
Towel under the door smoke until the days end
Puff, puff then pass, don't fuck up rotation
Hpnotic for Henny, now nigga that's your chaser
Turn nothin to something now pimpin' that's a savior
Best things are green now pimp and get your paper
High off the ground instead of skyscraper
Cool off thinkin' we local, come on homie, we major

We major (come on, homie, we major) [repeat]
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3448
we major was written by kanye about 15 years ago. come on, old man. it’s not even relevant. i’m pretty sure that’s even before public meltdown / celebrity kanye became a thing.

and yes, of course lots of african-american kanye fans were polarised by his trump infatuation. politics means something to that demographic. it has consequences. you’re just projecting your own stereotypes from the position of your own unaffected ease. his trump shit was hugely divisive.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX
I picked it at random, and I'm sure rap fans ponder deeply before they vote and will pick an old white man over a black music star based on past affiliation with Trump.

Won't half of Britain vote for anyone who can stand in a pub and hold a beer?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3448
millionaire politicians trying to seem ‘relatable’ is not the same as a millionaire rapper openly advocating for someone as polarising and divisive as trump. it’s the exact opposite. farage and cameron were trying to appeal to as many lumpenproles as possible in as inoffensive a way as possible; kanye spoke out vocally in support of trump, with all the implications that has for the race and civil rights struggle in america.

suffice to say that black democratic voters will not all switch to voting for kanye. he’s been wearing a MAGA hat for half of the last 4 years.

Last edited by uziq (2020-07-05 04:21:29)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX
Not even with Elon Musk behind him?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3448
do you think african-americans are obsessed with elon musk or something? pretty strange take. i'm pretty sure a lot of americans see him as a very problematic boss and the beneficiary of blood diamond wealth. which, incidentally, kanye did a song about.
Larssen
Member
+99|1884
Musk is a ridiculous individual but I don't think his billions are the result of 'blood diamond wealth'. If we are to chastise people for what their parents/grandfathers did I believe most of us need to take a seat in the confessional booth.
uziq
Member
+492|3448
i said he was the beneficiary of inherited blood diamond wealth, which is quite literally true.

and i'm not sure about that. most people's grandparents weren't actually colonists or extractors of diamonds. i imagine most people's grandparents throughout time immemorial were faceless workers or farmers or merchants, entirely without note. but never mind. it's hardly my point.

the fawning adulation and hero-worship of elon musk does not seem to have a big overlap with politically active african-americans. it mostly seems to be reddit dudebros, lulls 4channers, and engineering nerds.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

do you think african-americans are obsessed with elon musk or something? pretty strange take. i'm pretty sure a lot of americans see him as a very problematic boss and the beneficiary of blood diamond wealth. which, incidentally, kanye did a song about.
No its that its just been announced that Elon Musk is supporting his presidential bid.

Who could have imagined, first Trump now a West-Musk ticket.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3448

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

do you think african-americans are obsessed with elon musk or something? pretty strange take. i'm pretty sure a lot of americans see him as a very problematic boss and the beneficiary of blood diamond wealth. which, incidentally, kanye did a song about.
No its that its just been announced that Elon Musk is supporting his presidential bid.

Who could have imagined, first Trump now a West-Musk ticket.
i actually didn't know that. i heard they both linked up recently.

american public life is a strange and zany place.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3448
umberto eco
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EcGLYJZWkAMhn1f?format=jpg&name=medium

how many of these is jay up to now?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5354|London, England
So the resident libertarian is now a fascist? You accuse me of not being able to discern between the 75 flavors of Marxists and now I'm an authoritarian?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3716
You aren't a libertarian. You are a run of the mill Republican at this point.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3448

Jay wrote:

So the resident libertarian is now a fascist? You accuse me of not being able to discern between the 75 flavors of Marxists and now I'm an authoritarian?
where are you a ‘resident libertarian’? at an alzheimer’s home?

you are deluded.

also there’s one very strong flavour of marxist, in essence it involves a vanilla extract that’s quite hard to miss. you accusing obama of being a marxist is just simply illiterate. your use and disingenuous use of political terms - words are supposed to have meanings - accords perfectly well with Eco’s last point, about orwellian newspeak. you garble clearly defined terms and turn it all into a torrent of angry invective, phantasmal and vague nothing-speak. is it any accident that you are clueless what a marxist/socialist/communist denotes, and at the same time Trump comes out and talks about ‘far-left fascists’?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

So the resident libertarian is now a fascist? You accuse me of not being able to discern between the 75 flavors of Marxists and now I'm an authoritarian?
You're not a libertarian and never have been, you've always been self-interested.

The idea of libertarianism suited you when you thought it would give you an advantage, now 'conservatism' gives you an advantage so you've latched on to that.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5354|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

So the resident libertarian is now a fascist? You accuse me of not being able to discern between the 75 flavors of Marxists and now I'm an authoritarian?
You're not a libertarian and never have been, you've always been self-interested.

The idea of libertarianism suited you when you thought it would give you an advantage, now 'conservatism' gives you an advantage so you've latched on to that.
Everyone is self interested.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6102|eXtreme to the maX
Actually they aren't, there are still a few idealists and you definitely aren't one.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3448

Jay wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

So the resident libertarian is now a fascist? You accuse me of not being able to discern between the 75 flavors of Marxists and now I'm an authoritarian?
You're not a libertarian and never have been, you've always been self-interested.

The idea of libertarianism suited you when you thought it would give you an advantage, now 'conservatism' gives you an advantage so you've latched on to that.
Everyone is self interested.
wrong. most people grow up and move on from ayn rand/emo nietzsche/richard dawkins.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5354|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Actually they aren't, there are still a few idealists and you definitely aren't one.
Oh aye? They gain nothing from their idealism? They don't perhaps gain a sense of moral superiority that they can then wield as a cudgel in every conversation? Not all self interest has to do with money. In fact, I would argue that people who are interested in money are the lesser of the two evils, because at least they're honest with themselves and the world, and their motives are not necessarily linked to malice. I am, in fact, motivated by more than money, but you disprove of my motivations and thus dismiss them out of hand because they, necessarily, would undermine your own. You are a misanthrope that would force people to live and think as he does, if granted the power. Granted, your vision for the world might indeed be nicer and more egalitarian than the one that currently exists, but it is still dependent on your own use of force to gain it. How is that moral? How is that beneficial to the ones that are crushed along the way? You are purely driven by ego.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+492|3448
who is 'crushed' in dilbert's social-democratic politics?
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6689
Is it an evil to be interested in world peace and global homeostasis? And is it an evil to be interested in making a living (money)? Self interest needn’t be exclusive from altruism. The self cannot perform as a force for good without a stable life with needs met. For example: the healer learns by healing themselves first.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5354|London, England

uziq wrote:

who is 'crushed' in dilbert's social-democratic politics?
Individual freedom. He advocates for technocracy. He despises the fact that the world is not perfectly ordered to his liking, and that people have the free will to do as they please. He's absolutely convinced of his own moral and intellectual superiority and considers others to be unfit. If given absolute power he would likely behave no differently than every other absolute ruler in history. He'd probably start by liquidating his neighbors and then move on to other people that have always annoyed him simply by existing, and having a differing opinion.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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