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uziq
Member
+280|2065
i don't have any problem with a black middle-class. i've spoken here before about how joining a nation's middle-class involves a certain amount of deracination, normalisation, etc. that goes for white people too who move from their yokel towns and villages to cities and become polished and formal, and less distinct as a process.

i don't like uncle tom rhetoric. if i've used it in the (long) past then i would hope it wasn't aimed with serious intent, and just me flaming.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,693|4719|eXtreme to the maX
In hundreds of highly classified phone calls with foreign heads of state, President Donald Trump was so consistently unprepared for discussion of serious issues, so often outplayed in his conversations with powerful leaders like Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Recep Erdogan, and so abusive to leaders of America's principal allies, that the calls helped convince some senior US officials -- including his former secretaries of state and defense, two national security advisers and his longest-serving chief of staff -- that the President himself posed a danger to the national security of the United States, according to White House and intelligence officials intimately familiar with the contents of the conversations.

The calls caused former top Trump deputies -- including national security advisers H.R. McMaster and John Bolton, Defense Secretary James Mattis, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, and White House chief of staff John Kelly, as well as intelligence officials -- to conclude that the President was often "delusional," as two sources put it, in his dealings with foreign leaders. The sources said there was little evidence that the President became more skillful or competent in his telephone conversations with most heads of state over time. Rather, he continued to believe that he could either charm, jawbone or bully almost any foreign leader into capitulating to his will, and often pursued goals more attuned to his own agenda than what many of his senior advisers considered the national interest.

These officials' concerns about the calls, and particularly Trump's deference to Putin, take on new resonance with reports the President may have learned in March that Russia had offered the Taliban bounties to kill US troops in Afghanistan -- and yet took no action. CNN's sources said there were calls between Putin and Trump about Trump's desire to end the American military presence in Afghanistan but they mentioned no discussion of the supposed Taliban bounties.
By far the greatest number of Trump's telephone discussions with an individual head of state were with Erdogan, who sometimes phoned the White House at least twice a week and was put through directly to the President on standing orders from Trump, according to the sources. Meanwhile, the President regularly bullied and demeaned the leaders of America's principal allies, especially two women: telling Prime Minister Theresa May of the United Kingdom she was weak and lacked courage; and telling German Chancellor Angela Merkel that she was "stupid."
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/29/poli … index.html

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-06-30 05:07:46)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+280|2065
jay is so much like rand paul, it’s hilarious. listen to any of his recent ‘speeches’ and it’s all there. the defensiveness, the churlishness, the inchoate rage culminating in some platitude about ‘being positive’ / ‘believing in something’ / ‘not being a coward’. and, of course, lest we forget, the ‘carrying covid-19 in public and infecting people’ routine.
uziq
Member
+280|2065
https://www.economist.com/china/2020/06 … d-by-trump

Just as bipartisan opinion in Washington has coalesced around alarm at China’s rise, an elite consensus has emerged in the Chinese capital. Especially in this summer of pandemic and street protests, America is called a nation in decline: a rich country too divided, selfish and racist to keep its citizens safe. Chinese elites see Mr Trump as a symptom and an agent of that decline. State media long refrained from direct attacks on Mr Trump. Not now. The Global Times, a nationalist tabloid, this month reported that Chinese netizens mockingly call him Chuan Jianguo, or “Build-up-the-country Trump”. Their joke, that he is a double-agent wrecking America to make China strong, prompts lines like “Comrade Chuan Jianguo, don’t blow your cover!” Does such scorn mean that China wants Mr Trump re-elected? There, elites are divided. At root, their debates turn on two questions: is American decline irreversible, and would its acceleration suit China just now?
https://www.newsweek.com/racism-makes-c … 1593530912

remember how much time and effort i expended trying to explain to you guys that chinese people are happy with their government and become fiercely patriotic when it is criticised/in the face of alternatives? and you all accused me of being some secret sinophile? lol

Last edited by uziq (2020-06-30 17:18:24)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+343|2332
I think you mostly just argued wit Larssen. I have been saying for awhile that throughout the entirety of our young lives, America has been on decline. Meanwhile the CCP has produced 3 decades of substantial gains since T. Square.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,857|5245|949

definitely just larssen
SuperJail Warden
Member
+343|2332

uziq wrote:

i don't have any problem with a black middle-class. i've spoken here before about how joining a nation's middle-class involves a certain amount of deracination, normalisation, etc. that goes for white people too who move from their yokel towns and villages to cities and become polished and formal, and less distinct as a process.

i don't like uncle tom rhetoric. if i've used it in the (long) past then i would hope it wasn't aimed with serious intent, and just me flaming.
You called me an Uncle Tom two months ago. That said, I don't have an issue with the Uncle Tom meme. Black Trump supporters and non-white Blue Lives Matter people are legit Uncle Toms. And they need to be reminded whenever they surface.
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/87ea9f250daf9f5a5dafc873c71c08f182a8f4e5/0_33_3500_2100/master/3500.jpg?width=1200&height=1200&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&s=d2b29848f8f69d01217372dff0d6c8b1
https://whyy.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2018-08-25_13__BS23390-B-Slabbers-Philadelphia-Center-City-Blue-Lives-Matter-March-%E2%80%94-20180825_Blue-Lives-Matter-March_BS1485_%C2%A92018_Bastiaan_Slabbers_for_WHYY_-678x450.jpg
In my town's facebook group this Aztec looking Hispanic couple did something special for the "Police who protect us" that they wanted social media clout for. I legit wanted to call them Uncle Toms but couldn't because rules and facebook and all.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,804|5384|USA

IMHO the "Thin Blue Line" is an appropriation of the US flag and plays around the gray area of the flag code. Even if on muted colors, the blue stripe still by my thinking represents a logo, superimposed over the flag design. The horizontal blue bar centered on a plain black field is probably a more reasonable design.

https://i.imgur.com/v146kRU.jpg
lmao just no.

Some of these are about the design equivalent of one of those awkward swastikas that the vandal couldn't quite figure out how to draw.


e:

Wash. county sheriff tells employees to remove 'thin blue line' flag 2020 06 25
https://www.policeone.com/george-floyd- … fB3AKofkR/
“I'm not gonna let that little sticker be the divide among people in the community who will be afraid to come to us because of that," Sheriff Chuck Atkins said

CLARK COUNTY, Wash. — A sheriff in Washington state has directed workers to remove all depictions of the thin blue line from sheriff's office property amid mounting tensions between law enforcement and the Black Lives Matter movement.

Sheriff Chuck Atkins with the Clark County Sheriff's Office told KPTV that his decision stems from a desire to heal his community. Speaking at a Juneteenth webinar with the NAACP, Atkins said he didn't want the symbol to be a reason citizens might be afraid to come to his deputies.

“I'm not gonna let that little sticker be the divide among people in the community who will be afraid to come to us because of that,” Atkins said. “I will remove that sticker, we're still the same people. So, I hope the actions they see we take says we want to be part of the solution.”

While Sheriff Atkins says he has received some blowback from members of law enforcement after his decision, he says he still believes it's the right one. The sheriff's office confirmed to KPTV that all of its thin blue line stickers had been removed by Tuesday.
e2, for macbeth:

10,000 officers respond to policing poll: Only 7% would recommend becoming a cop 2020 06 30
https://www.policeone.com/police-jobs-a … uTcMG7bm5/
When asked about their thoughts on leaving law enforcement, only a third said they will 'remain on the job as long as possible'
uziq
Member
+280|2065

SuperJail Warden wrote:

You called me an Uncle Tom two months ago.
yeah, well, that's because you often lay on the 'we must erase all culture and make everyone white christians' act.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,693|4719|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

jay is so much like rand paul, it’s hilarious. listen to any of his recent ‘speeches’ and it’s all there. the defensiveness, the churlishness, the inchoate rage culminating in some platitude about ‘being positive’ / ‘believing in something’ / ‘not being a coward’. and, of course, lest we forget, the ‘carrying covid-19 in public and infecting people’ routine.
Jay has shares now.
The government needs to protect shares.

Why are you struggling with this.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+280|2065
yes and he was a textbook libertarian against the 2008 bailouts when he didn’t have any
Larssen
Member
+23|500
Eh, I have family that went from animal rights and green activism to near communist politics to hating immigrants and complaining about climate regulations making stuff more expensive. Pretty much ran all the extremes in the political spectrum. Funnily enough the views always aligned with those of her boyfriends. I guess some people's political affiliation is entirely dependent on who or what has their affection at that point in time.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3971|London, England

uziq wrote:

https://www.economist.com/china/2020/06/11/elites-in-beijing-see-america-in-decline-hastened-by-trump

Just as bipartisan opinion in Washington has coalesced around alarm at China’s rise, an elite consensus has emerged in the Chinese capital. Especially in this summer of pandemic and street protests, America is called a nation in decline: a rich country too divided, selfish and racist to keep its citizens safe. Chinese elites see Mr Trump as a symptom and an agent of that decline. State media long refrained from direct attacks on Mr Trump. Not now. The Global Times, a nationalist tabloid, this month reported that Chinese netizens mockingly call him Chuan Jianguo, or “Build-up-the-country Trump”. Their joke, that he is a double-agent wrecking America to make China strong, prompts lines like “Comrade Chuan Jianguo, don’t blow your cover!” Does such scorn mean that China wants Mr Trump re-elected? There, elites are divided. At root, their debates turn on two questions: is American decline irreversible, and would its acceleration suit China just now?
https://www.newsweek.com/racism-makes-c … 1593530912

remember how much time and effort i expended trying to explain to you guys that chinese people are happy with their government and become fiercely patriotic when it is criticised/in the face of alternatives? and you all accused me of being some secret sinophile? lol
The Soviet Union is not now nor will it be in the next decade in the throes of a true systemic crisis, for it boasts enormous unused reserves of political and social stability that suffice to endure the deepest difficulties. The Soviet economy, like any gigantic economy administered by intelligent and trained professionals, will not go bankrupt. It may become less effective, it may stagnate, it may even experience an absolute decline for a year or two; but, like the political system, it will not collapse.
Seweryn Bialer and Joan Afferica, “Reagan and Russia,” Foreign Affairs, Winter 1982–1983, 263.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+280|2065
can you please give me a meaningful précis of how the soviet union’s economy is in any way similar to china’s?

did the whole world export their supply chains and manufacturing to russia? did i miss that part? the soviet union’s planned economy was highly centralised and anti-capitalist; china’s system has been pro-capitalist since about the 1980s, jay.

the chinese middle-class are more robust and well-off than the american middle-class. sure, it’s a newer phenomenon, and sure, it’s all built on fake numbers. but so is america’s.

china is not russia. that’s a painfully bad comparison.

it’s amazing that there’s still literally a corner of the american right that thinks china is on the brink of collapse, or of breaking out in spontaneous democratic revolution. meanwhile america dissolved into chaos and widespread civil unrest and they pay it no mind.

Last edited by uziq (2020-07-02 01:07:38)

SuperJail Warden
Member
+343|2332
I was watching clips from the movie Sum of All Fears. I looked at the comments and it seemed to have been invaded by QAnon people. That's not really a big deal but it is interesting how that stuff spreads like a virus. Almost all other talk about the movie clip was drowned out by QAnon shout outs.
uziq
Member
+280|2065
i actually hate all that shit. ironic 4chan nonsense. started out as a joke for dweebs and incels and now it's an actual thing, out there in the world, rotting in the minds of retards.
uziq
Member
+280|2065


omg qanon were right!!!
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+690|4156|Toronto
Weren't there early stories of Trump literally having to be briefed using flash cards early in his term? I liked the jokes about crayon drawings to map US military movements lol
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
uziq
Member
+280|2065
and people like jay say that, somewhere, beneath all this ostensibly stupid, reckless, corrupt, narcissistic, deluded behaviour, there's actually an amazing president working super-good and exerting all of his genius ... just in private. or the media distort everything. or something.

the same people who rally against truth-twisters and reality manipulators
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+690|4156|Toronto
I was willing to take him seriously when he was less of a known entity. I figured he'd be about as dim as George W, but that despite appearing moronic he'd hold it together. That was wrong. The man is a complete moron.
The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3971|London, England

uziq wrote:

and people like jay say that, somewhere, beneath all this ostensibly stupid, reckless, corrupt, narcissistic, deluded behaviour, there's actually an amazing president working super-good and exerting all of his genius ... just in private. or the media distort everything. or something.

the same people who rally against truth-twisters and reality manipulators
A stable genius
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+280|2065
it must be cool to 'troll' over your national leadership at 40 years old.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3971|London, England
Honestly, I prefer when my government is hopelessly ineffective and deadlocked. I've always said the best government is when democrats control one branch and Republicans control the other. It makes it more difficult for demagogues to ram through far reaching changes. So, Trump being incompetent really doesn't mean a whole lot. If Biden wins and the Senate is still controlled by the Republicans it won't be any different than it is now. The president has always mostly just been a figurehead anyway. Our current figurehead is retarded. The next one might have dementia.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+280|2065
i thought an explicit part of the trump project was to concentrate power in the executive? wasn't that one of the aims of its architects? isn't mitch McConnell, barr etc. turning the senate and the justice department, respectively, into the opposite of independent institutions that will hold the president to account? didn't trump gut and downsize loads of the bureaucracy and civil service? he's hardly some impotent figurehead. he has led the way on several disastrous american policy decisions.

besides which, it's that figurehead which determines many of america's relations and standing with the outside world. that is not a trivial thing. he is alienating your long-standing allies and strengthening your national enemies. that is not negligible. that is real and palpable harm.

Last edited by uziq (2020-07-04 11:28:04)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,002|3971|London, England

uziq wrote:

i thought an explicit part of the trump project was to concentrate power in the executive? wasn't that one of the aims of its architects? isn't mitch McConnell, barr etc. turning the senate and the justice department, respectively, into the opposite of independent institutions that will hold the president to account? didn't trump gut and downsize loads of the bureaucracy and civil service? he's hardly some impotent figurehead. he has led the way on several disastrous american policy decisions.

besides which, it's that figurehead which determines many of america's relations and standing with the outside world. that is not a trivial thing. he is alienating your long-standing allies and strengthening your national enemies. that is not negligible. that is real and palpable harm.
No. That was the narrative the media pushed, calling him an authoritarian every day. All he did was roll back Obama's executive orders and try to do a military parade in DC. He doesn't strike me as the micromanaging domineering type. He's more like the idiot boss with rage issues that gets in the way if he's active and you spend as much time stroking his ego and gauging his mood for signs of stress as you do actually working.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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