uziq
Member
+492|3450

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v41/n18/eliot-weinberger/one-summer-in-america

pretty eye-opening when laid out like that.

what was that jay was saying about AOC trying to introduce marxism into the US?

The president tweets: ‘We will never be a Socialist or Communist Country. IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY HERE, YOU CAN LEAVE! It is your choice, and your choice alone. This is about love for America. Certain people HATE our Country …’

The White House counsellor Kellyanne Conway calls the four non-white congresswomen the ‘dark underbelly’ of America. She says that the president is ‘sick and tired of many people in this country’. Asked what Trump was referring to in his tweet, Conway responds by asking the reporter, who is Jewish: ‘What’s your ethnicity?’

It is now part of Republican strategy to describe the four congresswomen, following the president’s tweets, as ‘the face of the Democratic Party’, though all four are serving their first terms and are relatively powerless in the Congressional hierarchy. At a rally in North Carolina, the president repeats his attack on the women. The crowd chants: ‘Send her back! Send her back!’
I like how they interjected descriptions such as non-white and the reporter as Jewish. Everything in a racist framework. Like clockwork.
how the fuck are you reading conway asking a journalist about his ethnicity before she agrees to answer a question, and the writer making a point of this, as the writer being racially biased? are we even in the same world of sense-making?

the writer was – literally – reporting what happened? at which point was he interjecting a 'race issue'? the raising of ethnicity on conway's part was basically a non sequitur.

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-02 01:55:29)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

They're "The Squad" right? They grouped themselves together. Two are muslim, one is hispanic and one is black. One made a name for herself by being an idiot and sitting on every couch and trying to launch the green new deal
What is 'idiotic' about pursuing an interest, one which many people are behind?
another made a name for herself by being wildly anti-semitic
How was she 'wildly anti-semitic'?
Where's the criticism of people who are wildly pro-semitic?
Or 'wildly anti-islamic'?
It's pretty common for people on the right to tell people on the left to leave if they don't like the country, no? Is it just convenient to call Trump a racist for saying the same thing to people of color that white people say to other white people every day?
What an incredibly low level of debate. STFU or GTFO.
He didn't say leave, he said go back to where they came from.
It's just boring, honestly. Everyone gets called a racist or a sexist or a socialist or a fascist or whatever and the words have lost all meaning. They're just designed to other and shut down any debate.
I like how socialist is now an insult, bearing in mind America is a socialist country.

"We the people" <- Thats Marxism right there.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-10-02 16:42:24)

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uziq
Member
+492|3450
let's not confuse the matter with spurious and idiotic arguments. 'we the people' is a democratic tenet, it's no more marxist than robespierre and talleyrand.

jay blithely assuming that it's fine to tell critics to 'go back where they came from' ... when they came from the US? is a confusing master-stroke. is this really a rare occasion of the phrase 'check your privilege' actually having some purchase?
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6683|United States of America

Dilbert_X wrote:

Jay wrote:

It's just boring, honestly. Everyone gets called a racist or a sexist or a socialist or a fascist or whatever and the words have lost all meaning. They're just designed to other and shut down any debate.
I like how socialist is now an insult, bearing in mind America is a socialist country.
It's almost always been an insult, to be fair. Remember the mid-2000s days on this very forum when "liberal" was an insult? Strange days...
uziq
Member
+492|3450
to be fair, liberal still is the main insult when referring to the mainstream media, the cultural elite, the political establishment, etc. it's just that 'liberal', 'progressive', and now 'cultural marxist' are all smushed into one by the right-wing. as if they are at all similar things or in collaboration.

'socialist' is used in particularly conspicuous ways by the right-wing to discuss economic policies, because of course they are just in favour of the redistribution of wealth by other means, i.e. close complexes of industry and military with the state, rather than workers sitting on industry boards.

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-02 04:56:04)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6770|PNW

Intentional misuse of language to achieve right-wing ends is showered with cackling admiration even from conservatives who know the difference between these things. It's one of the many things they deflect an argument onto if it becomes too pointed. "But don't you see how brilliant that political move was!"

Or they'll change the topic to something like local politics, the moral bankruptcy of a random democrat, or how "China is emitting more pollutants than the US so why should we address anything about it?" It's an infuriating tactic to engage against and leaves them with a sense of smug satisfaction and wanting to repeat the process (usually after about a day), even if they've objectively lost on the facts front. Galling.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

let's not confuse the matter with spurious and idiotic arguments.
I tried
'we the people' is a democratic tenet, it's no more marxist than robespierre and talleyrand.
Has anyone actually tried reading and analysing it?
There's not a single freedom set out in there until the amendments.

This is interesting:

1: The Congress shall have Power
16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress

Article [II] (Amendment 2 - Bearing Arms)
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

So unless you're in a militia organised by congress, and have a gun provided by them, you have no business possessing a gun.
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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3718
The Bill of Rights was passed separately after the Constitution itself was ratified. They separated the two documents because they didn't want the debate over the Bill of Rights to sink the passing of the Constitution itself. There was a lot of discussion about whether or not to even have a Bill of Rights.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5356|London, England

uziq wrote:

let's not confuse the matter with spurious and idiotic arguments. 'we the people' is a democratic tenet, it's no more marxist than robespierre and talleyrand.

jay blithely assuming that it's fine to tell critics to 'go back where they came from' ... when they came from the US? is a confusing master-stroke. is this really a rare occasion of the phrase 'check your privilege' actually having some purchase?
Ilhan Omar is from Somalia originally
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
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uziq
Member
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so trump has a point in telling an american citizen to 'go back to where you came from' because she has made criticisms of american policy?

from the article:

Three of the four women to whom he is referring – Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ayanna Pressley and Rashida Tlaib – were born in the US. The fourth, Ilhan Omar, escaped the civil war in Somalia, was interned in Dadaab, the massive and horrific refugee camp in northern Kenya, and, as a teenager, was one of the few, among hundreds of thousands there, to be relocated to the US. Ocasio-Cortez’s ancestors are from Puerto Rico, which is generally not recognised by the president as being part of the US. Tlaib’s ancestors are from Palestine, which is not recognised by the president. Pressley is African American, and presumably her ancestors came to the US long before Trump’s did.
do you really think the president has a point, or is being appropriate in making those remarks? she secured legitimate asylum in 1995: do you think it's okay to tell someone to 'go home' after they've been a contributing member of society for 25 years?

i think you're in very dangerous rhetorical territory when you start endorsing positions like that. would an irish, italian or german immigrant be told to 'go back to where you came from' after they'd been naturalised for 25 years? or how about if a white american politician made critical remarks about its policy in israel, or foreign wars? would they be told to go back to europe, ungrateful for american freedoms and society as they are?

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-02 09:31:10)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3718
Omar can barely speak English. She needs to take the hijab off and put on a weave. Assimilate.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3450
she's more eloquent than trump and kelly anne conway you fucking dolt. and she speaks more languages than you.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3718
She can go speak those languages when she goes back to where she came from. Being able to effectively communicate in the language of the nation you live in is important.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3450
your wannabe white ruling-class obsequiousness is really tiring. you have more in common with ilhan omar than some WASP on martha's vineyard. give it a fucking rest, macbeth.

criticism of her oratory aside, how is she 'failing to assimilate'? she has several degrees, a good job, and speaks out for liberal causes. i'm failing to see how she's not a modern, educated western woman?

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-02 10:48:12)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3718
Once again Uzique turns out to be the real racist after all. I don't care for WASP. I don't care for Protestants at all. Frankly I wish I could drown as many white evangelicals as I can get my hands on.

I mostly am fine with her accent. The hijab has to go though. If she was Catholic she would be fine.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3450
why does the hijab offend you? lol you're forcing women of different ethnicities to dress like you and i'm the racist.

i'm calling out your constant affected poses of being xenophobic and against ethnic people who you feel you can punch down to. get a grip.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3718
Islam should not be practiced in the west.

I like punching down on poor and lesser educated white people too. I just don't do it here because it wouldn't go over well.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3450
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3718
Back to Omar...she has been here since she was 9. Why does she still have such an accent?
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+492|3450
why do people who grew up in the deep south never lose their accent despite moving to NYC or new england?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

The Bill of Rights was passed separately after the Constitution itself was ratified. They separated the two documents because they didn't want the debate over the Bill of Rights to sink the passing of the Constitution itself. There was a lot of discussion about whether or not to even have a Bill of Rights.
So the constitution was never about freedoms, they were an afterthought, it was about cementing in place a power structure for the rich elite.

Good to know.
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

why do people who grew up in the deep south never lose their accent despite moving to NYC or new england?
Why do people from NYC never lose their accent wherever they go?

How do Italian New Yorkers have a different accent from everyone else, generations after migrating to America?

New York wog has to be the most irritating accent in the world.
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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3718
Dilbert only likes Omar because she hates Jews but he wouldn't invite her to meet the family.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6104|eXtreme to the maX
By 'hates jews' do you mean 'doesn't unquestioningly support Israel'?

Its remarkable, since 9/11 its OK for Americans to hate all muslims.

But after 100+ years of the Palestinians, and people of every neighbouring country, being terrorised and murdered by Israelis people think its unreasonable that muslims have an issue with jews.

Obviously they're irrational hate-filled anti-semites, there can't be any other reason.
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War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
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War Man wrote:

anti-semitism in general is anti-mideastern, it isn't specifically anti-Jewish. Annoying how technically Arabs are Semites too and yet anti-Semetic is reserved for people criticizing Jewish people.
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