uziq
Member
+492|3453

Jay wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

uziq wrote:

jay is unhappy with his tax bill so therefore all government tax is being squandered by useless bureaucrats and extremist eco-terrorists.
jay is mad that he made a bad real estate purchase. should've checked if there was sewage. bet he cheaped out by not getting a lawyer either
Lack of sewers is ubiquitous to this county. I knew it had a cesspool before I bought the property. It is just an absurdity that we have a low crime county 50 miles from Manhattan, with the highest paid cops in the country, but no sewers. Political priorities are trash.
jay good middle-class citizens hire a financial adviser to minimise their tax bill rather than trying to cull federal programmes.

i know you're the first generation to make it out of the boonies but stop being so déclassé.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6106|eXtreme to the maX

Jaekus wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Wow, I agree with Dilbert re: EPA. This Sunday is off to an interesting start.
fuck i wish our government would have some fucking balls to stop the Adani mine.

even the fucking banks won't lend them money, now a foreign company wants our govt to foot the bill.
ikr

QLD government's platform was to stop it at the last state election, now they're trying to push it through. Fucking woeful state of affairs.
Whats important here is destroying farmland so Indians can make money.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6106|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

Cybargs wrote:


jay is mad that he made a bad real estate purchase. should've checked if there was sewage. bet he cheaped out by not getting a lawyer either
Lack of sewers is ubiquitous to this county. I knew it had a cesspool before I bought the property. It is just an absurdity that we have a low crime county 50 miles from Manhattan, with the highest paid cops in the country, but no sewers. Political priorities are trash.
jay good middle-class citizens hire a financial adviser to minimise their tax bill rather than trying to cull federal programmes.

i know you're the first generation to make it out of the boonies but stop being so déclassé.
I'm sure Utah has sewers to every house.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5359|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

Lack of sewers is ubiquitous to this county. I knew it had a cesspool before I bought the property. It is just an absurdity that we have a low crime county 50 miles from Manhattan, with the highest paid cops in the country, but no sewers. Political priorities are trash.
jay good middle-class citizens hire a financial adviser to minimise their tax bill rather than trying to cull federal programmes.

i know you're the first generation to make it out of the boonies but stop being so déclassé.
I'm sure Utah has sewers to every house.
You were just saying that the EPA is great because it prevents short-termism and that I was wrong about its priorities, yes? Well, I think protecting the groundwater drinking supply of 1.5 million people who are currently using open pit cesspool seems like it should be a higher priority than harrassing western ranchers in extreme rural areas over ponds they've built on their property. As I said, the EPA has become a joke with projects that have lower and more questionable returns over time.

Last edited by Jay (2017-02-05 05:11:52)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5359|London, England
The Progressive movement began as a Good Government movement, attempting to apply the scientific method to government actions in order to make them more efficient. Now it's become the champion of what it originally set out to fix.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5359|London, England

Pocshy2.0 wrote:

Jay wrote:

People don't want to see their taxes increased because the money is invariably squandered or just used to pay for government employee raises or pensions. Yes, I'm bitter. So are most people. I think most people would gladly pay higher taxes if the government was actually effective.
See, this is the mentality I don't get after having worked some time in government.

1.) government workers make less than private sector workers doing the same work at the same level of education. We actually have huge talent retention problems because of it. Try getting a P. Eng. to advise of the building code for 60k CAD a year.

b.) we're slow because our management structure is necessarily more complex than the private sector's. What companies do you know of where a new moron from the general public can lead the organization every 4 years with no continuity of thought? We need lengthy approvals processes to make sure that no one bad manager can scuttle the ship.

4.) we don't get to fail. If a private company goes belly up, there's 10 others making the same widget that will fill the gap. Government fails? Riots in the streets. Sure, there are minor failures, but fundamentally you need to understand that government is not a business and never should be. Government is motivated by such a different set of goals and drivers that it is completely moronic to believe that the public sector and private sector should be measured by the same yardstick.

Really I just think people who dislike government for its very existence are complete retards. Want to see what extremely limited government regulation looks like? Visit China.
I have no doubt that you and your coworkers mean well. In my experience with government agencies they seem to be staffed with a scattering of young idealists, an overwhelming number of immigrants, and old burnt out time servers. Ambition tends to be low and office politics and back biting reign supreme. This is just what I've seen, your mileage may vary.

The biggest problem I have is that there's no accountability. I see money thrown around willy nilly because it's not theirs and no one is getting fired if they go wildly over budget. I've seen two million dollar change orders shrugged off. Two million on a ten million dollar project. This is funny money territory. But if you break it down, that project is costing the average family of four city taxpayers $6 instead of $5. Big deal, right? But how many other projects and programs are there? It adds up quickly.

The political class should be the ones actually protecting us from stuff like this, but your average politician despises the voters. We're just whiners that don't want to pay for stuff. We stand between them and utopia, if only they could extract just a bit more...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Pocshy2.0
Member
+23|3371

Jay wrote:

I have no doubt that you and your coworkers mean well. In my experience with government agencies they seem to be staffed with a scattering of young idealists, an overwhelming number of immigrants, and old burnt out time servers. Ambition tends to be low and office politics and back biting reign supreme. This is just what I've seen, your mileage may vary.

The biggest problem I have is that there's no accountability. I see money thrown around willy nilly because it's not theirs and no one is getting fired if they go wildly over budget. I've seen two million dollar change orders shrugged off. Two million on a ten million dollar project. This is funny money territory. But if you break it down, that project is costing the average family of four city taxpayers $6 instead of $5. Big deal, right? But how many other projects and programs are there? It adds up quickly.

The political class should be the ones actually protecting us from stuff like this, but your average politician despises the voters. We're just whiners that don't want to pay for stuff. We stand between them and utopia, if only they could extract just a bit more...
I think there's a lack of nuance in your understanding of how overspending comes to be a problem. I'm willing to bet that the $2mill of overspending on $10mill project is for a component of a larger program goal. It is inevitable that some contracts simply go bad. What you're not seeing are the other hundred $10mill projects that go just fine. The general public and people in small private sector companies have a really hard time understanding how $1mill can literally be the rounding error on a spending program the government runs. The scale of what we deal with is so out of your world that the public thinks it's a huge waste of money, when in reality it's less than .05% of the budget. Even now I am running a $182mill program, and when I tell friends that I had to write off $100k today they lose their minds. Usually in private sector infrastructure projects the contingency is 10%, so I think I did just fine.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5359|London, England

Pocshy2.0 wrote:

Jay wrote:

I have no doubt that you and your coworkers mean well. In my experience with government agencies they seem to be staffed with a scattering of young idealists, an overwhelming number of immigrants, and old burnt out time servers. Ambition tends to be low and office politics and back biting reign supreme. This is just what I've seen, your mileage may vary.

The biggest problem I have is that there's no accountability. I see money thrown around willy nilly because it's not theirs and no one is getting fired if they go wildly over budget. I've seen two million dollar change orders shrugged off. Two million on a ten million dollar project. This is funny money territory. But if you break it down, that project is costing the average family of four city taxpayers $6 instead of $5. Big deal, right? But how many other projects and programs are there? It adds up quickly.

The political class should be the ones actually protecting us from stuff like this, but your average politician despises the voters. We're just whiners that don't want to pay for stuff. We stand between them and utopia, if only they could extract just a bit more...
I think there's a lack of nuance in your understanding of how overspending comes to be a problem. I'm willing to bet that the $2mill of overspending on $10mill project is for a component of a larger program goal. It is inevitable that some contracts simply go bad. What you're not seeing are the other hundred $10mill projects that go just fine. The general public and people in small private sector companies have a really hard time understanding how $1mill can literally be the rounding error on a spending program the government runs. The scale of what we deal with is so out of your world that the public thinks it's a huge waste of money, when in reality it's less than .05% of the budget. Even now I am running a $182mill program, and when I tell friends that I had to write off $100k today they lose their minds. Usually in private sector infrastructure projects the contingency is 10%, so I think I did just fine.
Contingency in NYC is 20% and it is every contractors goal to grab every last penny. I currently have eight projects in construction with an average value of around $9M. I'm an asshole when it comes to change orders. I fight everything, but the agencies I work for invariably roll over or are the cause of a change because someone fucked up somewhere else so a revision comes down that adds cost and time delays.

My whole point is that you can't look at them as rounding errors. That money comes out of someone's pocket. If everyone looks at them as rounding errors we wind up with more and more burden heaped on us for ever smaller benefit. You literally just laid out the case for why Americans don't trust our government. The primary beneficiaries are contractors, not the people footing the bill.

Edit - and yes I know it's hard. You get hassled, they threaten to stop work, you get yelled at by your boss if there are delays. They have all the leverage. But fuck them. Never stop fighting.

Last edited by Jay (2017-02-05 07:51:23)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3720

Jay wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

uziq wrote:

jay is unhappy with his tax bill so therefore all government tax is being squandered by useless bureaucrats and extremist eco-terrorists.
jay is mad that he made a bad real estate purchase. should've checked if there was sewage. bet he cheaped out by not getting a lawyer either
Lack of sewers is ubiquitous to this county. I knew it had a cesspool before I bought the property. It is just an absurdity that we have a low crime county 50 miles from Manhattan, with the highest paid cops in the country, but no sewers. Political priorities are trash.
My town has sewers. I don't know why yours doesn't. That is pretty odd for a town in the NYC area.

I can't live in a place without sewers. Septic tanks? This isn't the 19th century. I have better things to worry about than what happens to poop.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6717

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Jay wrote:

Cybargs wrote:


jay is mad that he made a bad real estate purchase. should've checked if there was sewage. bet he cheaped out by not getting a lawyer either
Lack of sewers is ubiquitous to this county. I knew it had a cesspool before I bought the property. It is just an absurdity that we have a low crime county 50 miles from Manhattan, with the highest paid cops in the country, but no sewers. Political priorities are trash.
My town has sewers. I don't know why yours doesn't. That is pretty odd for a town in the NYC area.

I can't live in a place without sewers. Septic tanks? This isn't the 19th century. I have better things to worry about than what happens to poop.
fucking gov in 70s in sydney spent money and sewered the whole city so we don't live in a medieval shithole

maybe jay should run as a pollie and get shit changed.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
uziq
Member
+492|3453
they have sewers in montauk.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3720
Trump repealed EPA regulation that prevented coal mining companies from dumping debris in streams. Working class coal miners in PA, Kentucky, and West Virginia are rejoicing. Trump finally did something I agree with. Way to go Trump. I hope he expands fracking and lays more pipelines too. No sarcasm.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6153|what

Because who needs clean water these days?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3720
I live in the NYC area. My water is fine. They voted for Trump, they want poison water, they get poison water.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6693
Hey buddy. Just wait til fracking comes to the Catskills. Then NYC drinking water is fucked.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6106|eXtreme to the maX
Don't you want benzene, glycol and coal dust in your water?

What are you? A LIBERAL?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3453
americans always complain about how crappy and unsafe chinese goods are, yet they also want to do away wtih regulations.

troll face
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6693
It's because the American is naturally more skilled in the arts of craft. It is what we take pride in. We build roads and pipes like the Japanese make swords and tea.

Dilbert, most Americans happily consume propylene glycol in their tooth paste.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2017-02-06 00:56:21)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6106|eXtreme to the maX
Surely the freedom to poison people is the most important freedom of all?
I'm surprised its not in the constitution really. Maybe those guys weren't so smart after all.

Actually I'm surprised Jay isn't campaigning to have all the sewers ripped up so the govt can't interfere with the natural flow of effluent into the groundwater.
I mean, what is a man if he cedes control of his poo to someone else? He's not a man at all IMO.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+492|3453

Superior Mind wrote:

It's because the American is naturally more skilled in the arts of craft. It is what we take pride in. We build roads and pipes like the Japanese make swords and tea.

Dilbert, most Americans happily consume propylene glycol in their tooth paste.
'naturally more skilled in the arts of craft'. do you even read what you're saying? you really think americans are naturally better at crafts than the chinese? that is moronic.

industrial revolutions are messy things. rapid growth, immense social upheaval, constant change that is hard to get a grip on – this is why, in a climate of poor political regulation, china has been driving out so many shoddy goods. the market is chaotic and the economics of their labour market and supply-chains mean they turn out huge quantities of cheap goods. 'naturally' poorer at manufacturing and craft? don't flatter yourself.

Last edited by uziq (2017-02-06 05:39:42)

Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6693
I was being sarcastic...

I forgot about the bbcode [sarcasm][/sarcasm]

if anything I have an opposite viewpoint. But then it's hard to compare the workmanship of a 5000 year old culture versus a 250 year old one. Regardless I firmly hold the position that all human beings are potentially equally adept at any fine work, craft or system of knowledge.

Last edited by Superior Mind (2017-02-06 07:02:43)

uziq
Member
+492|3453
ah, you don't post here enough anymore for me to pick up on the obvious sarcasm. thought perhaps you had some unreconstructed opinions about 'the value of going american' for goods. my bad.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6693
I was thinking just that. That I don't post enough here for my personality to have been clearly demonstrated.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+635|3720
I remember you being a hippy Jew
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6693
That's a rough estimate.

About as accurate as saying you're a psychopathic latino.

On topic:

Everyone in America and beyond are in such a fervor over Trump and his fallout. I recognize that he's a stain on our society but it's so hard to care. Even with the prospect of this administration sealing the fate of a dystopian future in which bands of ragged tribes roam the desicated American ruin-scape. All of the debate, policy making, name calling, it seems like such small potatoes. How can we possibly force a 500 or 1000 year outlook into the minds of everyday people and our politicians? How the fuck can there be a debate over climate science when the prognosis is death by water and flames? Who's heads have to hang for the rest of our societies' to be removed from their buttocks?

Last edited by Superior Mind (2017-02-06 12:33:22)

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