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uziq
Member
+159|1740
it’s like you don’t even understand what populism is. it’s possible to hold an election based on cogent ideas, policy, practicable tactics/strategy etc and not on wild emotional pronouncements, scaremongering and whipping up people against imaginary enemies. one is democratic process, liberal democracy, ‘the public sphere’ as envisioned by liberal philosophers from kant onwards; the other is demagoguery akin to religious preaching, faith-based thinking and other manipulation of emotions and irrationalism.

people are not so entirely stupid that they can’t cast a vote based on some semblance of reason, or be appealed to using reasonable arguments.

you are not this stupid nor this thick.

and by the way the high point of the social democratic pact between elites and the people in the UK is widely considered as being the post-war settlements that established the welfare state. did you even take a basic history class when you lived here?

Last edited by uziq (2019-07-28 02:44:09)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,611|4394|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

people are not so entirely stupid that they can’t cast a vote based on some semblance of reason, or be appealed to using reasonable arguments.
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/0E22/production/_90081630_leaveresult.jpg
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uziq
Member
+159|1740
which is entirely my point about referendums being advisory and not legally binding ... gee it’s almost as if i haven’t been criticising the dishonesty and shenanigans of the leave campaign ... what the fuck is your actual point? democracy is an impossible ideal because the conservative party called for an EU referendum to satisfy their in fighting? we should consider every election ever a futile effort and declare people ‘too stupid’ because the media and social media can influence people’s decision making? ffs.

i’m actually done with this thread at this point. you are dedicated to being as stupid as possible and bringing nothing remotely interesting to the discussion. read back through my posts; you’re not telling me anything i don’t know about brexit. my whole point is that, with new information on brexit, politicians should reassess the options (they have failed spectacularly thus far). heading for a no deal brexit is the height of stupidity and represents the elite taking cynical advantage of ‘the people’s will’.

Last edited by uziq (2019-07-28 04:37:45)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,611|4394|eXtreme to the maX
You're entirely missing the point, whether or not the referendum was legally binding the public voted leave, whether or not you think that means the electorate put populism ahead of reasoned argument, or whether it means they truly believed Brexit is in best interests of the country as a whole is up to you.

The public voted for Brexit, no deal or not.
The electorate has given that message three times now, there are no options to 'reassess', not without another referendum or an election.
If the public is dumb enough to vote for something they don't understand then bad luck. Its like turkeys voting for Christmas, then complaining "Wait, what, Christmas means we get our heads cut off and breadcrumbs shoved up our backsides? How were we supposed to know? The politicians should reassess this for us and not give us what we asked for".

Apart from that you're wrong on every point you've made so far, your wishful thinking and reality seem to be disconnected - but of course everyone who holds a different view is 'as stupid as possible' and 'bringing nothing remotely interesting to the discussion'.
You're exactly the same as the Tory elite, just not part of it.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-07-29 19:14:23)

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SuperJail Warden
Member
+193|2008
Italian government collapsed from what I understand is infighting between the far right coalition parties. Another impressive showing by the 21st century western conservatives.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,611|4394|eXtreme to the maX
Thats how PR and coalitions work, the Italian system is uniquely dysfunctional and breeds corruption - which seems to suit Italians.

Whereas the US system promotes corruption, dysfunction and stagnation for three years out of every four, the difference is the govt isn't dissolved and a new election called - it just sits there doing nothing most of the time.
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