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uziq
Member
+491|2945

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Even if it (or something like it) came from a haywire Ukrainian counterbattery or missile interception or whatever, I feel like blame can still be squarely fixed on Russia for even being there or launching an attack where it can affect things over the border.
i mean, i agree with you, but america of all people can't really elect themselves to be world police over accidental cross-border forays. you've been regularly slipping across borders to extra-judicially kill people – to say nothing of cause famines and murder hundreds of thousands of civilians – since at least the tricky dicky/kissinger era.

china, russia, india, iran, etc, are just going to keep pointing at your drone programmes and state-sponsored assassinations (plus support of israel doing the same) ad infinitum. this poland incident does look like an unintentional accident.

it should also be pointed out for probity's sake that poland's foreign ministry is almost itching for a fight at this point. they are one of the more gung ho governments in the NATO alliance.

Last edited by uziq (2022-11-15 20:40:43)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

No, I agree. I'd even mentioned it in my pre-edit, but felt I'd brought it up enough times that it would just diffuse my point without adding anything new. The United States has a lot of bad history to answer for, and you won't catch me anytime soon making excuses for it.

On the flip side, plenty of countries pointing out American excess on the world stage have plenty of skeletons in their own closets. A lot of stuff needs to be talked about, and a lot of that stuff doesn't excuse stuff done by other countries.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2022-11-15 21:06:51)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5598|eXtreme to the maX
If other countries formed an actual HATO organisation they'd have their work cut out responding every time America launched a cruise missile or JDAM at one of them.
But I mean obviously its OK for America to be firing sword missiles at civilians, no-one else can do it though.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

Refer to my above. But while we're on the topic, remember that one time Australian spec-ops murdered a bunch of Afghan civilians and prisoners?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5598|eXtreme to the maX
Pretty sure its a lot more than one time.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

I mean, where do we even start with Australia? It certainly wouldn't all fit on the same overburdened bookshelf with America's.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5598|eXtreme to the maX
That boiled down to about five rogue idiots, its not as if they were sitting on their deck inviting their friends round to watch cruise missiles being fired off.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

Ah yes, it does lack that personal touch of standing over someone in a field pointing a gun at their head while they beg for mercy. Your spec-ops could teach our drone jockeys something about savoring human emotion.

This is going sideways from the current topic, anyway. I'm never going to disagree that America needs to get its act together.

No, I agree. I'd even mentioned it in my pre-edit, but felt I'd brought it up enough times that it would just diffuse my point without adding anything new. The United States has a lot of bad history to answer for, and you won't catch me anytime soon making excuses for it.

On the flip side, plenty of countries pointing out American excess on the world stage have plenty of skeletons in their own closets. A lot of stuff needs to be talked about, and a lot of that stuff doesn't excuse stuff done by other countries.
uziq
Member
+491|2945
i didn't mean to sidetrack into an obvious and preditable whataboutery discussion, like some sort of CCP-payrolled agitprop bot. but this incident does look like a genuine incident, not a premeditated attack on a NATO country, and so it seems eminently sensible to me that the US admin and other big players (yes, taking into account their lax approach to international sovereignity when it suits their own foreign policy/assassination programmes) are immediately making 'NBD' sounds about it.

very sad that people died in this. i don't have anything constructive or useful to say about that. that's seriously fucking unlucky to get smited by random junk falling out of the sky from a neighbouring warzone.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

I'm sure their families feel rather helpless about the situation right now. They probably didn't do anything in their lives to earn that (save for the sin of being in the wrong place at the wrong time), rather like a lot of non-combatants who died during this whole thing. Imagine buying a coffee and then getting a proctological exam by a Russian missile targeting (and missing) a strategic warehouse of baby food or whatever.

Off in limbo just trying to process that.
uziq
Member
+491|2945
lots of people die horribly without having earned such a fate. lots of families deal with that.

there's acts of outright malice that still haven't been addressed by the international justice system. like the MH plane putin shot down (and put HIV-AIDS research back 2 generations in the process, as it was full of conference goers).

2 people getting donnie darko'd by a piece of metal fuselage is a tragedy but the western world shouldn't descend into WW3 because of it.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

It's endlessly unnerving hearing calls for escalation for that and previous reasons. Do people actually miss the cold war? I don't, and I was just a kid trying to process nuclear threat. Why should we be in a hurry to turn the Fallout franchise into reality? Does that mean Jesus comes back? Would he be proud of what humanity made of the world then?

Side note, imagine the jubilation at his return dying away when he announces he's just running for office within an established government, rather than taking over as King of Mankind.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2022-11-16 05:23:50)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+607|3212

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

It's endlessly unnerving hearing calls for escalation for that and previous reasons. Do people actually miss the cold war? I don't, and I was just a kid trying to process nuclear threat. Why should we be in a hurry to turn the Fallout franchise into reality? Does that mean Jesus comes back? Would he be proud of what humanity made of the world then?
It is not the Christian conservatives who want to fight Russia. They have mostly sided with Russia. They see Russia as a bastion of (white) Christian conservativism. They see Ukraine as an extension of the Biden/Obama/Clinton cartel or whatever.

The people in America who still support Ukraine are a big coalition with different reasons. Some are Democrats who want to punish Russia for 2016, some are people invested in the defense industry, some genuinely believe in maintaining the peace in Europe, another group have familial ties to Eastern Europe etc. None of them are hoping for nuclear war.

...

Appeasement doesn't work. Feb. 4th 2022 borders should be a starting point for negotiation.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

It seems to be a weird mix right now. A lot of Christians are also grumbling darkly about Russia. Easy to slip back into I guess.

I don't think anyone here wants to "appease" Putin. But not doing so doesn't necessarily mean the Terminator timeline has to happen.
uziq
Member
+491|2945
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

Some of these programs really have names with vibes like Sesame Street for Adults.

Breakfast with George. Fox & Friends. The Commute with Frank.
uziq
Member
+491|2945
GBnews is the crackpot ‘new media’ network set-up with dodgy funding because the ‘MSM’ wasn’t being brexity enough for their liking. if 55% of their viewership are expressing that discontent, fair to say the project is in troubled waters.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,015|6264|USA

I honestly can't wrap my head around the desire to combine news with breakfast. Are mass shootings really that appetizing? My local station alone is like 99% of the worst news they can possibly skim from recent events. During breakfast hours. Has to explain at least some of the gloomy people I interact with.

I wonder if any publications have anything like a dedicated counter-obituary? People who recently survived life-threatening illnesses and injuries?
uziq
Member
+491|2945
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,279|6209

uziq wrote:

https://twitter.com/aaronbastani/status/1596190989332496384?s=46&t=SwhXfT9M_6xvVgNMlg5V2g

what a funny little tribe.
"if you'ere here for a holiday" lmao
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
uziq
Member
+491|2945
they get all their talking points from the murdoch media. same recycled garbage as dilbert spouts.

the actual process of getting benefits, let alone public housing, is torturous even for a native. yeah, there's no hordes of turks coming here and signing up for a life of indolence and handouts.

ditto the rhetoric about migrants purposefully skipping on other european countries to preferentially choose the UK. the UK and italy accept the bottom-lowest numbers of refugees out of all european nations, lol. and it's really a weird sort of narcissism to believe that all the refugees 'truly' want to come to the UK as their 'top choice'. that's not even how the EU refugee laws work, lol.

https://freemovement.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Resettlement-of-Syrian-refugees.0011.jpg

it's an invasion ermehgawwwwd!

meanwhile we have actual parasites, like baroness mone, in the house of lords who have skimmed tens of millions of £'s of taxpayers money, from covid VIP lane preferential govt contracts, straight into offshore accounts for their family trusts. made-up PPE companies that never delivered a single usable item to hospitals or the public. but them bloody migrants!

Last edited by uziq (2022-11-25 19:42:28)

Cybargs
Moderated
+2,279|6209
got the exact same shit here, now therye screaming of "Allowing isis brides/children" back evne though theyre ummm australian and the previous murdoch backed govt did that?
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
uziq
Member
+491|2945
https://twitter.com/aaronbastani/status … EzIbQV0kAw

farage the City populist losing the audience on his own show. what an odious little grifter.
uziq
Member
+491|2945
1970s britain: owned its water, transport, mail, energy, a huge stock of council-owned housing, and was sat on a huge north sea oil reserve. national debt: ~£80bn.

2022 britain: no state owned assets, all aforementioned utilities and services are in the hands of private consortia (many owned by foreign states or adjacent companies), housing is unaffordable. national debt: ~£2.5tn.

any time someone gets angry at migrants, or young single mothers, or married couples ... ask where the national wealth has gone. and stop paying lip service to fucking corporations and billionaires.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,790|5598|eXtreme to the maX
If its so bad why do the migrants keep coming?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

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