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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4792|eXtreme to the maX
Lets interview some remain voters - brilliant, completely seals the argument.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+301|2138
they are northern working class people, many of which voted to leave.

kind of scuppers your argument that it's only liberal, enlightened elites in wealthy prosperous london who are quibbling about the result, doesn't it?

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/has-there-been-a- … or-brexit/

Last edited by uziq (2019-09-16 06:32:14)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+358|2406
Boris Johnson failed to turn up at his own press conference rather than face noisy anti-Brexit protesters, in extraordinary scenes from Luxembourg on Monday.

Xavier Bettel, the country's leader, went ahead to speak to the press without the British prime minister – standing next to an empty podium as he fiercely criticised him.
He really is your Trump.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4792|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

they are northern working class people, many of which voted to leave.

kind of scuppers your argument that it's only liberal, enlightened elites in wealthy prosperous london who are quibbling about the result, doesn't it?

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/has-there-been-a- … or-brexit/
Some northerners didn't vote for Brexit, maybe those people were interviewed.

Seems the people are pleased that BoJo is Making Britain Great Again
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 … ical-chaos

Tory + Brexit + UKIP = Brexit -> 51%
Labour = Not sure -> 25%
Lib Dem and SNP= Remain -> 20%

Actual data kind of scuppers all your argument and quibbling really. More so than a random pop quiz.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-09-16 19:47:20)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+301|2138
you are a delusional old fool. why the fuck do you consider brexit and israel-palestine so intrinsically linked? has it occurred to you that someone can have an interest in their domestic politics and an interest in international affairs? just because i’m not fucking obsessed with jews it doesn’t mean i have no critique to make of israel’s treatment of palestine.

can you show me where i ‘ridicule any discussion of israel-palestine’? that’s as random a broadside as ‘you only care about so and so because you’re worried about your career’. where are you pulling this stuff from? the only thing i ridicule is the ANY part of that clause: your habit of discussing it in ANY discussion whatsoever.  i'm sure you have a deep and abiding concern for the palestinian people, dilbert, and contribute to lots of awareness-raising causes and donate a lot of money, and they are not at all a convenient alibi for your anti-semitism.

handy guide to dilbert’s intellect:

- whataboutery and smug tu quoque
- blithe and asinine one-liners when this fails
- seething undercurrent of conspiracy theory and ‘joined-up’ paranoiac thinking. everything is relevant to everything else when jews’ hidden hand is there! and don’t you know, the world’s toilet paper supply is controlled by a jewish family etc etc.. and do you really think your constipation is an accident? well let me tell you about netanyahu ...

i forgot i should ignore ongoing political decisions that affect my entire family and 65 million other people and focus on a territorial dispute on another continent. what's HILARIOUS - h i l a r i o u s - FUCKING HILARIOUS! is that you've been lecturing me in this entire thread to 'respect the vote, derp', 'sorry, you lost', 'you can't ignore democracy, keep pouting you idiot' and i am willing to bet my bottom dollar that you are literally here kvetching and pulling your hair out at present ... because of an ongoing DEMOCRATIC VOTE IN ISRAEL that involves hardliners!

why are you obsessed dilbert? btw, haven’t you heard that greenland is melting? climate change etc? see how well this debating tactic works? moron.

Last edited by uziq (2019-09-18 00:28:59)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4792|eXtreme to the maX
Ah, seems I've hit a nerve there.

I didn't say they're intrinsically linked, just that there are parallels and your ideology is inconsistent.

Interesting that you're concerned about issues which you think affect you - actually they probably barely affect you, since not much will change - but unconcerned about issues which are life and death for entire peoples, and which have knock-on effects on the rest of the world.

Britain, America and Australia are quite likely to go to war again to deal with the last obstacle in the middle-east to the return of Jebus and the ascent of the chosen from the Mount of Olives, pretty major stuff compared with having to rewrite a few import-export procedures.

We'll see how the Israel election goes I guess. Who is going to win?

Likud - Which promises a Zionist government, to steal more of a neighbouring country and immunity from prosecution for criminal acts for life for its leaders
Blue and White - The party which wants the right to send soldiers into other countries to kill people whenever it wants
Shas - Which wants increased building on stolen land
United Torah Judaism - Refuses to run female candidates for office, ultra-Orthodox women will not vote for them if they elect women
Yisrael Beiteinu - More building on stolen land to accomodate Increased immigration
Yamina - Opposes existence of a Palestinian State and supports increased settlement building

What a nice bunch should be fun to watch

popcorn.gif

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-09-18 02:55:25)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+301|2138
hit a nerve? like how deluded are you? do you actually realise how the average person with a view on israel-palestine can compartmentalise the issue and  ... you know, continue on with their life? you haven't hit a nerve at all. do you HONESTLY think you are 'getting' at something when you keep upbraiding everyone about their lack of concern about jews? it's absolutely crackpot, dilbert. saying you 'must have hit a nerve' is a bit like a david icke lizard-people-spouting crackpot saying 'see?!? see?!? we're getting at something!' when they are kindly escorted off the premises of the local bookstore.

there aren't parallels at all between israel-palestine and the brexit vote. like please can you elucidate this for me, please? how is my ideology inconsistent? what does the UK's membership, or lack thereof, of the european union, have to do with the occupation of palestine by the israeli military/illegal settlers? i'm sorry but this is on the same plane of historical analogy as comparing everything to 'the Nazis, man'.

you keep minimising brexit whereas no one else seems to be. everyone involved has a pretty decent measure of the thing, i'd say. 'not much will change', you say, despite there being reams of analysis and forecasts and reporting stating the contrary. nobody is claiming their way of life is going to be destroyed and we're heading back to the stone age. but as far as single-issue national decisions go, this is up there. it's about as big a voluntary disruption as a nation can elect to take, isn't it? it will affect and determine the next generation of politics and economics, that much is for sure. a little more than 'the price of toilet paper' as you so fatuously prate on about. and definitely a lot less than nuclear armageddon. the only person here hysterically blowing-things-out-of-proportion is you, who seemingly can't go two pages of discussion about legal matters and prorogation without mentioning 'jesus cults in the middle-east hastening the end of times'. are you feeling okay? this is not how people discuss issues.

i'm sure my political views on israel-palestine are the same as yours; i'm sure we share the same critiques; i'm sure, actually, that i do about as much for the actual cause in the middle-east as you do, viz. diddly-squat fuck all. the difference is that it has poisoned your entire worldview and become a fixed idea, and you can't go two pages of reasoned discussion about anything before fantasizing about bloodsucking jews. i really think you are unwell.

Last edited by uziq (2019-09-18 02:47:52)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4792|eXtreme to the maX

Dilbert_X wrote:

Brexit - a small group of hardline ideologues holding everyone to ransom, intent on seeing the world burn and rejecting any attempt at sensible progress which doesn't fit with their niche vision.

Israel - a small group of hardline ideologues holding everyone to ransom, intent on seeing the world burn and rejecting any attempt at sensible progress which doesn't fit with their niche vision, and who believe fairy stories come true to boot.
The Brexiteers should have been squashed and ignored, same for the Zionists.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+301|2138
i mean i don't even know where to begin with that comparison. it is literally senseless. it would not get past a first-year history exam. the reason for israel becoming a militarised neo-con state are very different geopolitically to a bunch of finance-friendly tax-cheating capitalists in the city of london and their chums wanting to escape from pesky regulation.

Last edited by uziq (2019-09-18 02:49:55)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4792|eXtreme to the maX
You keep ignoring the fact that Britain voted for Brexit, and with no mention of a deal effectively voted for No-Deal Brexit.

The most recent polls show an actual majority is currently right behind the parties pushing Brexit and likely a No-Deal Brexit.

Its no use complaining people didn't know what they were voting for, it was a protest-vote blip, they didn't want a No-Deal Brexit, people are now against Brexit etc because you're wrong.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4792|eXtreme to the maX
Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4792|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

there is no way boris johnson would have become PM by winning an open general election, as i claimed.
Seems you're wrong, 12% ahead of the next party.
very modest of you to claim you are a 'significant part' of the brain-drain. i can only hope you're kidding. is that perhaps because, being white, you consider yourself to have a bigger brain relative to other brits? phrenology is very in vogue in your household, isn't it?
Yes and yes.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+301|2138
the only way boris johnson is only going to win a general election is by making a pact with the brexit party and former UKIPers. nigel farage has even gone on television (in australia, surprise surprise) to say that he'll offer to stand down rival candidates in contested areas to secure BoJo's vote. very democratic, that, a real confidence vote.

that the opposition are hopelessly split and flailing is not an advertisement for boris johnson. don't make too lazy a trump analogy about 'the great unheard' middle mass who love johnson like rust-belters love donald trump.
uziq
Member
+301|2138

Dilbert_X wrote:

You keep ignoring the fact that Britain voted for Brexit, and with no mention of a deal effectively voted for No-Deal Brexit.

The most recent polls show an actual majority is currently right behind the parties pushing Brexit and likely a No-Deal Brexit.

Its no use complaining people didn't know what they were voting for, it was a protest-vote blip, they didn't want a No-Deal Brexit, people are now against Brexit etc because you're wrong.
what does this have to do with israel-palestine? you keep missing the point that PEOPLE ARE VOTING FOR NETANYAHU AND HAVE DONE FOR SEVERAL TERMS. in this context you are the whiny 'remainer' who doesn't agree with clear mass consensus, aren't you?

Last edited by uziq (2019-09-18 03:26:32)

Larssen
Member
+30|573

Dilbert_X wrote:

You keep ignoring the fact that Britain voted for Brexit, and with no mention of a deal effectively voted for No-Deal Brexit.

The most recent polls show an actual majority is currently right behind the parties pushing Brexit
I mean this goes both ways. People didn't vote for no deal either. Leaving the EU wasn't specified and I reckon most people assumed some sort of negotiated relationship in the future. It doesn't end with no deal either if that happens - an actual deal would have to be negotiated asap. Also, the polls are the polls. Not election results.

Last edited by Larssen (2019-09-18 03:57:45)

uziq
Member
+301|2138
those who speak 'for the people' don't have quibbles about making assumptions. they 'know' what people voted for, instinctively, intuitively, in the blood (in their prejudices).

michael gove, the architect of the leave campaign and one of the main campaigners alongside boris johnson, said on record that the leave campaign never campaigned on a basis of no deal or anything so disastrous. he's changed his tune now, of course, that he's in the cabinet.

Writing in the Daily Mail in March, Mr Gove had said: "Some may say that ditching (Theresa May's negotiated) deal will allow us to leave without any compromises.

"But we didn’t vote to leave without a deal. That wasn’t the message of the campaign I helped lead. During that campaign, we said we should do a deal with the EU and be part of the network of free trade deals that covers all Europe, from Iceland to Turkey.

"Leaving without a deal on March 29 would not honour that commitment. It would undoubtedly cause economic turbulence. Almost everyone in this debate accepts that."
apparently dilbert knows better than the people who led the leave campaign. remember that intuitive bond? ah, bigoted telepathics!

https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/PRI_826729121.jpg?quality=90&strip=all

inconvenient, isn't it?

dilbert genuinely seems to think that because your average white-van man on the street knows nothing about politics and the actual process of achieving political aims that 'no deal was always the clear choice'. very quaint.

Last edited by uziq (2019-09-18 04:19:17)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4792|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

You keep ignoring the fact that Britain voted for Brexit, and with no mention of a deal effectively voted for No-Deal Brexit.

The most recent polls show an actual majority is currently right behind the parties pushing Brexit and likely a No-Deal Brexit.

Its no use complaining people didn't know what they were voting for, it was a protest-vote blip, they didn't want a No-Deal Brexit, people are now against Brexit etc because you're wrong.
what does this have to do with israel-palestine? you keep missing the point that PEOPLE ARE VOTING FOR NETANYAHU AND HAVE DONE FOR SEVERAL TERMS. in this context you are the whiny 'remainer' who doesn't agree with clear mass consensus, aren't you?
Israel as a whole is the 'hardline ideologue' holding the rest of the world to ransom, maybe that wasn't clear.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4792|eXtreme to the maX

Larssen wrote:

I mean this goes both ways. People didn't vote for no deal either. Leaving the EU wasn't specified ....
What on earth are you talking about?
Leaving the EU is exactly what was specified and there was no mention of a deal.

https://miro.medium.com/max/1180/1*SOvUBM3ay35FLRMdU3uyqw.jpeg

Michael Gove doesn't know whats in people's heads either
"During that campaign, we said we should do a deal with the EU and be part of the network of free trade deals that covers all Europe, from Iceland to Turkey."
So the plan was to leave the EU but strike a deal which was exactly the same as being in the EU. Yes, I'm sure thats exactly what people thought they were voting for.

https://pics.me.me/hello-is-that-sky-this-is-theresa-ld-like-to-28258693.png
Epstein didn't kill himself
Larssen
Member
+30|573
What I meant to write is that what leaving entailed wasn't specified (im typing on my phone). But I'm sure you full well understood and decided to quote selectively anyway.

There is no 'leaving the EU' without any sort of deal. I mean it's technically possible but realistically not an option. If no deal happens the UK and EU will still need to negotiate a future relationship. With regard to trade, citizens rights, security and  so on. 'Leaving the EU' did not imply starting a fucking cold war with the EU (i.e. cutting any and all ties). It only implied no longer being part of the decision-making bodies in Brussels. Whatever else it meant in the specifics of the UK's future coexistence with the EU was not decided in the referendum.

Dilbert_X wrote:

So the plan was to leave the EU but strike a deal which was exactly the same as being in the EU. Yes, I'm sure thats exactly what people thought they were voting for.
????

Pretty much every country in existence has some sort of deal in some area of cooperation with the EU. This isn't 0's and 1's dilbert

Last edited by Larssen (2019-09-18 06:20:45)

uziq
Member
+301|2138

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

You keep ignoring the fact that Britain voted for Brexit, and with no mention of a deal effectively voted for No-Deal Brexit.

The most recent polls show an actual majority is currently right behind the parties pushing Brexit and likely a No-Deal Brexit.

Its no use complaining people didn't know what they were voting for, it was a protest-vote blip, they didn't want a No-Deal Brexit, people are now against Brexit etc because you're wrong.
what does this have to do with israel-palestine? you keep missing the point that PEOPLE ARE VOTING FOR NETANYAHU AND HAVE DONE FOR SEVERAL TERMS. in this context you are the whiny 'remainer' who doesn't agree with clear mass consensus, aren't you?
Israel as a whole is the 'hardline ideologue' holding the rest of the world to ransom, maybe that wasn't clear.
no it's not. it's a functioning democracy and they elect politicians who campaign quite transparently on a platform of expanding the settlements. israel chose their politicians, it's not a military junta, they're not acting against the wishes of their beleaguered citizens. it's as legitimate in its actions in the eyes of its subjects as any other nation state playing the game of nationhood. international condemnation for actions doesn't mean the entire state is 'holding the world ransom'. there's been plenty of international condemnation of trump pulling out of the paris accords, canada's tar-sands plans, and, of course, brexit ...

you don't like the vote that israel makes, sounds like you're a whiner. 52% of brexiters want to see the law broken to achieve their aims; what's the difference between them and the right-wing israeli's who don't give a damn about international decrees about their land? the law is there to be broken! it's the will of the people! you should really stop pouting about it, ginger goy boy.

Last edited by uziq (2019-09-18 06:37:25)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4792|eXtreme to the maX

Larssen wrote:

What I meant to write is that what leaving entailed wasn't specified (im typing on my phone). But I'm sure you full well understood and decided to quote selectively anyway.
Exactly, so by default a no-deal Brexit was specified.
There is no 'leaving the EU' without any sort of deal. I mean it's technically possible but realistically not an option.
Of course there is, it might be tricky for a while then it will settle down as soon as Europe remembers it likes to sell things to Britain.
If no deal happens the UK and EU will still need to negotiate a future relationship.
Quite likely.
With regard to trade, citizens rights, security and  so on.
BMW, Audi, Porsche and Mercedes will certainly want a trade deal, Britain does not need to negotiate the rights of its own citizens with the EU.
'Leaving the EU' did not imply starting a fucking cold war with the EU (i.e. cutting any and all ties). It only implied no longer being part of the decision-making bodies in Brussels. Whatever else it meant in the specifics of the UK's future coexistence with the EU was not decided in the referendum.
No idea where you're getting any of this, Brexit meant cutting all political and economic ties. Any future coexistence would be up for negotation.
Pretty much every country in existence has some sort of deal in some area of cooperation with the EU. This isn't 0's and 1's dilbert
Sure, maybe Britain will adopt the American, or Chinese, or Patagonian model - ie balanced trade but nothing else.

You and Uzique are clutching at straws stating the referendum vote means people wanted Michael Gove's version of Brexit, whatever he's now saying it means and wasn't clearly articulated at the time, and not Nigel Farage's version which was crystal clear at the time and which they've backed multiple times since.
I've no idea how you arrive at this, it seems a mix of wishful thinking and disconnection from reality. Did you also take a lot of space-cakes in your youth?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-09-18 16:15:54)

Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4792|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

no it's not. it's a functioning democracy and they elect politicians who campaign quite transparently on a platform of expanding the settlements. israel chose their politicians, it's not a military junta, they're not acting against the wishes of their beleaguered citizens. it's as legitimate in its actions in the eyes of its subjects as any other nation state playing the game of nationhood. international condemnation for actions doesn't mean the entire state is 'holding the world ransom'. there's been plenty of international condemnation of trump pulling out of the paris accords, canada's tar-sands plans, and, of course, brexit ...

you don't like the vote that israel makes, sounds like you're a whiner. 52% of brexiters want to see the law broken to achieve their aims; what's the difference between them and the right-wing israeli's who don't give a damn about international decrees about their land? the law is there to be broken! it's the will of the people!
You're not getting it, I'm saying Israel is the Nigel Farage of world politics, A selfish ideology-driven wrecker.
What international decrees are the Brexiteers flouting? Can't think of any.

I don't care how Israel votes, most parties are pushing genocide, theft and moving further to a mono-racial, monotheistic outpost - and I thought you were a fan of multiculturalism?

you should really stop pouting about it, ginger goy boy.
Who's the racist now?
Epstein didn't kill himself
Larssen
Member
+30|573

Dilbert_X wrote:

No idea where you're getting any of this, Brexit meant cutting all political and economic ties. Any future coexistence would be up for negotation.
All the negotiating happening now IS about that future coexistence. No deal is a failure of negotiations, not the default. That is your subjective interpretation, not the actual outcome of the referendum. Brexit didn't explicitly campaign on the notion that the UK would leave without any diplomatic contact with the EU.

Also, citizens rights concerns the rights of all UK citizens living in the EU and EU citizens living in the UK. Pretty important stuff.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,697|4792|eXtreme to the maX
There was never a prerequisite for a deal before Brexit, most people assumed that would come after.

Now we're talking about diplomatic contact.
What if I told you being part of the Eurozone is not a prerequisite for having diplomatic contact?

You and your kind are projecting so hard you have created an entire alternative reality for yourselves.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+301|2138
i love how dilbert thinks no deal is a lot of brash talk about the price of toilet roll, and that international trade boils down to how many audis and porsches are going to be sold in the future, and not, you know, the immediate concerns about the supply of french pharmaceuticals through unprepared and blocked ports, or the reintroduction of checkpoints on the irish border. nah, europe is mostly just german porno and italian sunglasses, and people love those — it’ll work itself out in a wash or two!

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