Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7022|Moscow, Russia
would you stop trying to judge everybody by your fucked up standards already. religion was never an issue for me because i was born and raised in an almost religion-free society, where the story about red cap and the story about jesus christ were treated pretty much equally - as fairy tales they are. there was simply no ground for any kind of guilt or doubt about religion for me from the beginning - why would there be any now?

so go lecture someone else, would you kindly. i'm quite alright.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
A2TG2
Hazbeen
+67|4772|at your six
I'd say that you are not alright at all. You have been trained to hate something that stands for love ( Jesus ) and to love something that stands for hate ( pick your Godless government ).
There is a plethora of evidence that Jesus was an actual person in history. There were many witnesses to the miracles he was said to have performed.
The Russians tolerate open attacks on gay people, and in many cases it is thugs in uniform that are doing it. That isn't love, its hate. Who is better off, the one who was "  raised in an almost religion-free society " that hates something he has little knowledge of or one that was raised in a society that recognizes ( in terms of shear weight of numbers ) God first and all this bullshit Earthside as temporary and meaningless?

There are groups of atheists that are out doing charity work.
Get out there an make a positive contribution to the world. Your time is short. Don't waste it.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5833

Buddha and Jesus are the only two religious figures I can think of that get universal praise. I just find it interesting that militant atheist will complain about Religion endlessly but still say those two guys were alright.

I wish I could discuss the life and times of Mohammad with people other than Lowing types and devout Mohammedans.

Last edited by Macbeth (2013-08-12 22:30:06)

RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,741|6984|Cinncinatti
i took an islam class
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7022|Moscow, Russia

A2TG2 wrote:

I'd say that you are not alright at all. You have been trained to hate something that stands for love ( Jesus ) and to love something that stands for hate ( pick your Godless government ).
love does not require jesus. hate does not require government.

There is a plethora of evidence that Jesus was an actual person in history.
which doesn't give any reason to believe in his divine nature.

There were many witnesses to the miracles he was said to have performed.
the miracles circus tricks have since been reproduced. the "witnesses" refuted.

The Russians tolerate open attacks on gay people
no, we don't.

and in many cases it is thugs in uniform that are doing it.
how many people, who were actually there, have you talked to? none? where do you get your info from? ah, your media? thought so.

That isn't love, its hate.
it's not about love and it's not about hate. it's about reason and evidence. there's never been any to support christians' religious claims.

Who is better off, the one who was "  raised in an almost religion-free society " that hates something he has little knowledge of
how do you know what kind of knowledge i have about religion?

or one that was raised in a society that recognizes ( in terms of shear weight of numbers ) God first and all this bullshit Earthside as temporary and meaningless?
sinse there have never been any word from the other side, i'm pretty sure those, who don't claim to know what happens after "all this bullshit Earthside" ends, are a lot better off.

and "sheer weight of numbers" never made anything true. what a ridiculous argument. there was a time that almost everybody believed the earth was flat - was it then?

There are groups of atheists that are out doing charity work.
Get out there an make a positive contribution to the world. Your time is short. Don't waste it.
i know. and agree. and participate. and i don't need an imaginary friend to inspire me.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7019|PNW

Shahter wrote:

would you stop trying to judge everybody by your fucked up standards already. religion was never an issue for me because i was born and raised in an almost religion-free society
If it's not an issue for you then why are you making it into one.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5833

RTHKI wrote:

i took an islam class
Interesting. What do you think about his marriage to Aisha or his treatment of the Jewish tribes of Arabia?

Last edited by Macbeth (2013-08-12 22:51:26)

Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7022|Moscow, Russia

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Shahter wrote:

would you stop trying to judge everybody by your fucked up standards already. religion was never an issue for me because i was born and raised in an almost religion-free society
If it's not an issue for you then why are you making it into one.
i don't. the OP does. and this is a "debate" thread, were people discuss things. i'm doing just that - trying at least.

and your point was..?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7019|PNW

My point is that it's fine to be a bit aggressive in fending off evangelism, but after awhile it becomes as annoying to listen to as endless preaching. Besides which, helping the poor and underprivileged is pretty much the governing theme here. You're taking one religious statement out of context and running away with it. If you don't want to help people with God also in mind, then just help people. Or don't. I don't care either way.
A2TG2
Hazbeen
+67|4772|at your six
Shat, the old me would have posted pix of bloody gays from recent weeks in Russia and of state goons and misc. thugs beating them.
He would engage you and offer evidence of miracles that you would never accept. He would have called bullshit on your participation unless you could prove it.

The new me just says finding Jesus is like falling in love for the first time; you'll know it when you find it. I was much like you. I am the proof of the miracle. A hardened cynic who was at best agnostic just said, " okay, use me and I will serve in anyway I can ". That act of surrender gave me a whole new perspective and showed that there was a purpose for my life.
Were before I knew fear and pain, now I have trust and forgiveness. It's a peace the secular world cannot offer.

Secular charities tend to give very little, or be outright frauds. Donors that are hip tend to ask to see financials before cutting large checks. No Thirsty Child has 5% administrative costs and 95% of donations go directly to materials and such. The volunteers raise their ( our ) own travel expenses. Compare that will some of this.
http://www.realfarmacy.com/americas-50- … s-exposed/
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7022|Moscow, Russia

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

My point is that it's fine to be a bit aggressive in fending off evangelism, but after awhile it becomes as annoying to listen to as endless preaching.
then don't listen. this thread started with preaching, continued with attempts to fend that shit off, and i'm pretty sure there's nothing else to it.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5833

meh if there is nothing else to talk about might as well let him go until no one bothers to respond.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7019|PNW

Shahter wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

My point is that it's fine to be a bit aggressive in fending off evangelism, but after awhile it becomes as annoying to listen to as endless preaching.
then don't listen. this thread started with preaching, continued with attempts to fend that shit off, and i'm pretty sure there's nothing else to it.
But you've been on every page of this thread ranting about it. It's hard to avoid.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7022|Moscow, Russia

A2TG2 wrote:

Shat, the old me would have posted pix of bloody gays from recent weeks in Russia and of state goons and misc. thugs beating them.
they already tried that here. and failed. there's no such pictures.

He would engage you and offer evidence of miracles that you would never accept.
i'm pretty sure i could've also been able to refute all that evidence.

He would have called bullshit on your participation unless you could prove it.
and i wouldn't have given a damn. my participation is my personal matter.

The new me just says finding Jesus is like falling in love for the first time; you'll know it when you find it. I was much like you. I am the proof of the miracle. A hardened cynic who was at best agnostic just said, " okay, use me and I will serve in anyway I can ". That act of surrender gave me a whole new perspective and showed that there was a purpose for my life.
Were before I knew fear and pain, now I have trust and forgiveness. It's a peace the secular world cannot offer.
i've heard this rhetoric before many times. it's only natural for people, who have been through hard times and witnessed the unfairness of the world, to want to find emotional shelter from all that. and religion does help, i'm totally aware of that, but being useful as a way of running away from problems and responsibilities, doesn't make it true - not one bit.

Secular charities tend to give very little, or be outright frauds.
who said anything about charities? those aren't the only ways to help. and i also don't see any reason for religious charities to be any less prone to fraud.

Last edited by Shahter (2013-08-13 00:31:24)

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7022|Moscow, Russia

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Shahter wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

My point is that it's fine to be a bit aggressive in fending off evangelism, but after awhile it becomes as annoying to listen to as endless preaching.
then don't listen. this thread started with preaching, continued with attempts to fend that shit off, and i'm pretty sure there's nothing else to it.
But you've been on every page of this thread ranting about it. It's hard to avoid.
you can always avoid the thread altogether. as i said, it's all preaching - which you don't like - and attempts to fend the preaching off - which you also don't like. what are you still doing here?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7019|PNW

Or I could stay and say I'd rather hear about ATG's African adventures then listen to an argument about religious motivation. If you don't like that, maybe you can "not listen."
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7022|Moscow, Russia

Macbeth wrote:

meh if there is nothing else to talk about might as well let him go until no one bothers to respond.
the was always stuff to talk about with atg before. maybe we could bring some of the "old him" out, you know .
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7022|Moscow, Russia

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Or I could stay and say I'd rather hear about ATG's African adventures then listen to an argument about religious motivation. If you don't like that, maybe you can "not listen."
i dunno. the OP is not quite about african adventures, you know. it's, basically, a sermon. are you - the mod - telling me we should derail the thread?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7019|PNW

That was only part of the OP. The highlight I take away is this:
YOU can have a huge impact on the life of a fellow human on the other side of the world.
You're the one turning it into a fight about religion.
A2TG2
Hazbeen
+67|4772|at your six
Shit Shat, what do you call it?

You are carrying on about how I shouldn't be religious and coping out about what you claim to have done by calling it personal. So. what have you done?
This thread had a point, which is to say that individuals like you and me are the real force of change in this world.
Oh, I could tell stories, but that is not the point.
Some of the things I saw were not pretty. There were times I looked to the sky and said, " God, you have got to be joking. "

And, you say it didn't happen ( meaning gays getting beaten in Russia )?
lol, have some more vodka flavored rocket fuel dude...are they all lies?
https://www.google.com/search?q=gays+be … =firefox-a
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7022|Moscow, Russia

A2TG2 wrote:

Shit Shat, what do you call it?
D&ST

This thread had a point, which is to say that individuals like you and me are the real force of change in this world.
that's a good point.

Oh, I could tell stories, but that is not the point.
but, as you can probably see, that's, basically, all that people here (myself included, btw) want from you. stories. not sermons.

Some of the things I saw were not pretty. There were times I looked to the sky and said, " God, you have got to be joking. "
nobody's asking you to share anything you are not comfortable with.

And, you say it didn't happen ( meaning gays getting beaten in Russia )?
lol, have some more vodka flavored rocket fuel dude...are they all lies?
https://www.google.com/search?q=gays+be … =firefox-a
gays are getting beaten here. russia, generally, is very homophobic. but none of that is approved or supported by the government or the public.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6963
slavic psychobabble strikes again.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
A2TG2
Hazbeen
+67|4772|at your six

Shahter wrote:

And, you say it didn't happen ( meaning gays getting beaten in Russia )?
lol, have some more vodka flavored rocket fuel dude...are they all lies?
https://www.google.com/search?q=gays+be … =firefox-a
gays are getting beaten here. russia, generally, is very homophobic. but none of that is approved or supported by the government or the public.
lol, the government overwhelmingly passed anti-gay propaganda lies just in the last few weeks. They seem to herd the gay rights marcheres into the truncheons of the mob.

One of the places I went to in Rwanda is the Murambi Technical School.
The government and Belgium U.N. soldiers told the people of the surrounding villages to come to the school, where they would be safe. Some sixty five thousand people did. The U.N. soldiers locked the gates and the militia turned off the water.
Three days later the people were too weak to resist and they were all killed with guns, machetes, clubs, burnt alive, tossed in latrines and other unimaginable ways to die. Kids forced to kill their mothers, etc...

I entered classrooms still filled with bodies. I saw that they had cut the achillies tendons of them adults so they couldn't run, and let them die slowly. I saw chop marks on skulls of babies. The smell was pure evil. I went inside mass graves. People of our team helped disinter bodies as new mass graves were still being discovered, so that the remains and clothes could be cleaned and buried respectfully. ya, I skipped that one.

So where was God in all that?
He was watching the individual actions of the killers. One day I was inside another small church where twenty three thousand people died. On the altar a mother held her baby and they were both ran through with a sword, joined together forever. I remember looking at the bullet pocked walls
and thinking, " what kind of God allows this? "  I swear, as clear as day a voice spoke; " If I had spared Able you would not know the lesson of Cain. "


Our driver had machete scars on his arms and back. He ran for his life through the roadblocks in Kibuye and swam to an island in Lake Kivu. He has a kind heart, is always smiling. People that have been through that are capable of greater forgiveness than you or I. The main pastor we work with over there spent three years in prison for genocide crimes. I only found that out after my third trip, and I still love that man. Our driver Kasongo loves that pastor Leonidas, even though nine of his eleven family members perished in the Catholic church that overlooks the town.
You simply cannot judge what you would do under kill or be killed circumstances.
The fact is, foreign powers caused that genocide. They assigned the tribal Hutu or Tutsi brand, stirred them up against each other and then moved in on the gold, lumber and tea while the slaughter was raging, which is rather a standard genocide model.

I wrote a story about my last day in Rwanda which is found here I forget how to linky to text. Another version is on my website link in my profile.

I have had some amazing experiences over there, good and bad. I will be back next June and am organizing a new missions program with my wife and Journey Community Church in La Mesa. I still don't understand or claim to know all.
I just know that I have impacted hundreds if not thousands of lives over there and they sure appreciate it. There are no big money charities doing stuff of note in Africa. They steal peoples donations and reward themselves.
BVC
Member
+325|6942
Religious arguments aren't really productive or helpful, all they do is make people angry and want to bomb/exterminate each other.
A2TG2
Hazbeen
+67|4772|at your six
That's why I don't get in them. But, part of the responsibility we have as Christians is to try and spread the word. It is commanded in Matthew 28:19

What you do with the information is up to you. Jesus loved the lost and sinners. You don't bring people there by being an obnoxious prick. You'll have better luck being an example through deeds and actions.

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2024 Jeff Minard