Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5824

The "gang of eight," a bipartisan group of senators who have been working since November to secure a temporary worker program to appease both the business community and labor unions, scored a big victory over the weekend when the AFL-CIO and Chamber of Commerce struck a deal on a contentious low-skilled worker visa program. But everyone from Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., to NumbersUSA, a group that would like to see tighter controls on immigration, warn there are still many mountains to climb before reform is final.

While much has been made of the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the U.S. and if they should receive a "path to citizenship," lawmakers who have fought previous immigration battles say figuring out how to determine the number of low-skilled workers who will be allowed to enter the country has been the real poison pill that has killed prior negotiations.

"I think it is the biggest single area where immigration reform could have floundered. It has historically been the problem with immigration reform," says Brent Wilkes, the National Executive Director of the League of United Latin American Citizens. "This [agreement] is definitely on track to be the strongest effort for decades."

The compromise would create a new "W-visa" program slated to begin in 2015. Immigrants who work in lesser-skilled non-agricultural jobs, such as janitors, retail, construction workers and hospitality employees would be eligible for the program.

"We have created a new model, a modern visa system that includes both a bureau to collect and analyze labor market data, as well as significant worker protections," Richard Trumka, leader of the AFL-CIO, said in a released statement. "We expect that this new program, which benefits not just business, but everyone, will promote long overdue reforms by raising the bar for existing programs."

The proposal sets up a mechanism to manage the influx of future immigrants and creates a new Bureau of Immigration and Labor Market Research, an independent entity within U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

The agency's job will be to set caps on how many workers will receive the visas each year, as well as study the impact immigrants have on the country's economy.

The bureau is slated to give out 20,000 visas in the first year, increasing to 75,000 visas over a four-year span. The bureau will use an economic formula to determine how many workers the country's economy can support in the fifth year, with the number of visas never dropping below 20,000 or climbing higher than 200,000.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 … t-congress
While low skilled workers will be able to apply for these they will all mostly be gobbled up by high skilled engineers and others. This is good. I think we should also give out visas to people who complete STEM degrees in U.S. colleges. We need as many of those people as possible. It will also be good for America if we increase the amount of East Asian and Indian Americans through immigration. They will contribute well to America's rich tapestry.

Last edited by Macbeth (2013-04-02 10:44:42)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5596|London, England
I sense a little butthurt.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
can you just start linking the site you get all these articles from? cause when you copy and paste about 5 stories in 5 minutes, i sometimes get the feeling i'd be better off just reading the original source and comments... rather than seeing dilbert and jay's opinion on the matter for 10 pages. or at least add the link for that same benefit, so we can get the best of both worlds.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5824

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

can you just start linking the site you get all these articles from? cause when you copy and paste about 5 stories in 5 minutes, i sometimes get the feeling i'd be better off just reading the original source and comments... rather than seeing dilbert and jay's opinion on the matter for 10 pages. or at least add the link for that same benefit, so we can get the best of both worlds.
link added.
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
thank you for your citations. commence.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5824

Jay wrote:

I sense a little butthurt.
This has nothing to do with you. I have wanted to increase immigration to America for awhile now. Immigration is a net plus economically. We are going to need a large people pool if we are to compete with India and China in the future. I think most of us can agree highly educated people should be here at least.

Last edited by Macbeth (2013-04-02 10:47:24)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5596|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

I sense a little butthurt.
This has nothing to do with you. I have wanted to increase immigration to America for awhile now. Immigration is a net plus economically. We are going to need a large people pool if we are to compete with India and China in the future. I think most of us can agree highly educated people should be here at least.
I'm pro immigration, I just find it funny that you constantly talk about wanting to flood the market with people holding STEM degrees. It's pretty apparent that you want our wages brought down so we can't make fun of your degree choice anymore.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5596|London, England
But yes, we do need tens of thousands more STEM grads in the US. The vast majority of people in the engineering industry are baby boomers approaching retirement and we run a pretty serious annual deficit of graduates vs need.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
13/f/taiwan distributes a pretty good video making the argument that america's global eminence in university research and invention is driven by immigrants on genius-visas/study scholarships. certainly the demographic make-up of american academia - even outside of STEM - leans heavily on the international. the disparity is exaggerated by your sucky state high school system.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5824

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

I sense a little butthurt.
This has nothing to do with you. I have wanted to increase immigration to America for awhile now. Immigration is a net plus economically. We are going to need a large people pool if we are to compete with India and China in the future. I think most of us can agree highly educated people should be here at least.
I'm pro immigration, I just find it funny that you constantly talk about wanting to flood the market with people holding STEM degrees. It's pretty apparent that you want our wages brought down so we can't make fun of your degree choice anymore.
That is an added plus but I swear I didn't have you in mind when I made the thread. This is about competing with China ans India.
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Jay wrote:

I sense a little butthurt.
This has nothing to do with you. I have wanted to increase immigration to America for awhile now. Immigration is a net plus economically. We are going to need a large people pool if we are to compete with India and China in the future. I think most of us can agree highly educated people should be here at least.
I'm pro immigration, I just find it funny that you constantly talk about wanting to flood the market with people holding STEM degrees. It's pretty apparent that you want our wages brought down so we can't make fun of your degree choice anymore.
i honestly think you ridicule yourself if you choose to 'make fun of someone's degree' because of the pay-packet. what a risible conception of education.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5596|London, England

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

Jay wrote:

Macbeth wrote:


This has nothing to do with you. I have wanted to increase immigration to America for awhile now. Immigration is a net plus economically. We are going to need a large people pool if we are to compete with India and China in the future. I think most of us can agree highly educated people should be here at least.
I'm pro immigration, I just find it funny that you constantly talk about wanting to flood the market with people holding STEM degrees. It's pretty apparent that you want our wages brought down so we can't make fun of your degree choice anymore.
i honestly think you ridicule yourself if you choose to 'make fun of someone's degree' because of the pay-packet. what a risible conception of education.
For the millionth time, that is how college degrees are marketed in the US. It's how they justify the outrageous tuition prices.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
really? i don't think prestigious educations at top institutions in the US are marketed for their 'paycheque' value. i don't think people go to top liberal arts colleges because they're obsessed with job pay-brackets afterwards. i think elite education in the US advertises itself based on the fact it's an elite education. i think you may be projecting your own working-class exodus mentality onto higher-education.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,979|6870|949

No one ever marketed a college degree to me. I'm not sure I understand what you mean Jay?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5596|London, England
Yes, I'm entirely ignorant of how stuff is marketed in my own country. You know best.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5596|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

No one ever marketed a college degree to me. I'm not sure I understand what you mean Jay?
You were never told to 'go to college so you can get a good job'?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493
as my first post made out, US higher-education at postgrad level is an international affair. i have looked at many of your top colleges for postgraduate. i was pretty sure i'd prefer to do it that way, financially, for a few months, whilst my own choices/opportunities were not made up. so yes, i do think i know enough about elite institutions to know that they aren't 'marketed' for job paycheques. maybe you would know more though? going to a low-ranking college with no elite appeal to sell, i mean.
13/f/taiwan
Member
+940|5937
uzique is right.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5596|London, England
I've seriously never encountered anyone so status obsessed before... every post you write is about status. Christ you're boring.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493

Jay wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

No one ever marketed a college degree to me. I'm not sure I understand what you mean Jay?
You were never told to 'go to college so you can get a good job'?
i think this is a working-class view of university. that's the way its seen in the UK for lower-class people too: aspirational, a leg-up into the world of professional work, professional salaries, and middle-class comfort.

however, when you come from a comfy middle-class background, where material concerns aren't so pressing, then university is promoted as its original function: to broaden the mind and educate/culture yourself. that's why middle-class people tend to do 'luxury' degrees that are all about intellectual curiosity and pursuit, whereas blue-collar kids are forced to do STEM degrees that they are bored and hate, or finance degrees that will soon be invalidated by calculators.

i think you need to temper your 'what education is for in the US' with a little social nuance.
13/f/taiwan
Member
+940|5937
my eng lit professor has a ba, ma and phd all from columbia university. the same goes for a theater professor who took has a phd from nyu. they make around 80-100k/year in one of the highest cost of living cities. and they all picked it because they *surprise* enjoy what they study.
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|4493

Jay wrote:

I've seriously never encountered anyone so status obsessed before... every post you write is about status. Christ you're boring.
every post you post is about money and material gain. sorry, but education is about education. i'm not making it about status. i'm saying education is there for education's sake. just your status blinds YOU to that, and makes you obsessed with 'marketing' and 'projected earnings'. ultimately the status anxiety comes from your part. i am quite happy to see universities in their original institutional form, rather than advanced job training centers. again, i think you're deflecting a little.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5596|London, England

13/f/taiwan wrote:

uzique is right.
So you're telling me that people told you to attend college for the love of learning only? No one ever mentioned that it would improve your job prospects after graduation? Kind of funny, because that was the message on nearly every single teen oriented sitcom when I was growing up.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
13/f/taiwan
Member
+940|5937
for working/lower class people, yes.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5596|London, England

Uzique The Lesser wrote:

Jay wrote:

I've seriously never encountered anyone so status obsessed before... every post you write is about status. Christ you're boring.
every post you post is about money and material gain. sorry, but education is about education. i'm not making it about status. i'm saying education is there for education's sake. just your status blinds YOU to that, and makes you obsessed with 'marketing' and 'projected earnings'. ultimately the status anxiety comes from your part. i am quite happy to see universities in their original institutional form, rather than advanced job training centers. again, i think you're deflecting a little.
Nah, I'm just going to put you on ignore now. I told you your act was old.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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