you're quite literally wrong, and ignorant, and full of usual racial slander, but nevermind. it's a cute affectation of yours at this point.
you're quite literally wrong, and ignorant, and full of usual racial slander, but nevermind. it's a cute affectation of yours at this point.
In societies that are strongly racially segregated that may sometimes be the case. But that's kind of a fallacy right - a community protesting for its own sake isn't necessarily discriminatory towards others. It's like people saying 'blue lives matter' or 'all lives matter' in response to BLM, which ends up being a protest against a protest. The BLM slogan in the US does not imply that other people do not matter. You can attack literally any interest group in that way.Dilbert_X wrote:
3. Black people only care when its black people being killed.
But it does.Larssen wrote:
The BLM slogan in the US does not imply that other people do not matter.
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What makes you draw that conclusion? They're not out there campaigning against rights of non-black people. It's simply focused on restraining police violence in black communities.
no, it really doesn't. why do you think huge numbers of crowds at these protests are, er, not black?
equal before the law does not mean 'special treatment'.
equal before the law does not mean 'special treatment'.
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +635|3721
They try to draw attention to it. White Americans just aren't interested in doing anything about it. As I said before, a lot of them don't value even their own lives. This dovetails with our social safety net and inequality issues.Dilbert_X wrote:
Well its one murder, maybe one and a half.
Where's the 'black community' when its white people getting killed by the police?
But they are asking for special treatment.
Quite shortly it will be literally impossible for the Police to arrest black suspects.
Good luck to the community when that happens.
Quite shortly it will be literally impossible for the Police to arrest black suspects.
Good luck to the community when that happens.
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they are asking not to be summarily executed on the roadside for trivial infractions or routine traffic stops.
'special treatment'. you are delusional.
you're the same person who thinks women asking for equal pay in the workplace will soon end up in a 'vaginal tyranny'.
'special treatment'. you are delusional.
you're the same person who thinks women asking for equal pay in the workplace will soon end up in a 'vaginal tyranny'.
Nope, never said anything like that. They're free to negotiate whatever pay they like.
What they are now asking for is to be able to attack police officers with impunity. Lets see how that plays out.
What they are now asking for is to be able to attack police officers with impunity. Lets see how that plays out.
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Hollis is right to the extent that it was beyond a DUI at that point. He just seems wholly blind to the inappropriateness of even all the things he listed amounting to a street execution.uziq wrote:
funny of you to pop up to defend this case and then say nothing about the multiple police murders that have just lit up your country like a bonfire. fuck off. or were you too busy out shooting protestors with tear gas and rubber bullets?HollisHurlbut wrote:
No, Brooks escalated it.uziq wrote:
i would have just left it at the moment he ran away. giving chase escalated it.Because it wasn't about a DUI anymore. He committed misdemeanor (at least, possibly felony) obstruction, felony theft, and felony robbery when he resisted and took the taser.why are you chasing a guy armed with a taser over a DUI?Felonies are, pretty much by definition, not trivial.why do you need to give dangerous chase over such a trivial felony?Stop it. That's not what happened.at the end of the day a guy just lost his life because he fell asleep in his car after a few too many beers.
and, yes, as newbie said above: my problem is with any policing situation at all that escalates that quickly and ends up with people dead. the police here frequently let examples of 'felonies' or illegality go if it risks endangering life or making a bad situation worse. why aren't police there taught proper grappling skills? why aren't police there taught that life is more important than 'wanted dead or alive' sherrifing?
your silence speaks volumes on the last few weeks, by the way. always a good by-the-book pedant when you see a crack of light for your cause.
Police pushback on these matters isn't helping to chill the country out and get us to stop gathering in virus-spreading throngs, either. NY police union boss breaking down behind a microphone with a rant about shiny badges. "We demand respect!" Goodness.
Erm no dilbert it's quite clearly about not getting killed for no reason, like george floyd.
You seem to expect a sort of enlightened civility from minority communities which you yourself are not prepared to strive for at all. They must be the better people; to be out in the streets protesting whenever a person of any colour is wrongfully assailed by police, to be examples of peaceful and organised demonstration, to cross the boundaries and care for you and your community as much as or even above their own, despite them disproportionally standing the lowest socioeconomic rungs on society's ladder. Meanwhile the slightest infraction or less-than-perfect behaviour on their end will instantly provoke your contempt and surface level judgments - usually focused on culture and skin colour. If black people destroy a storefront, it is proof the black community at large is a stain on society. If integration of Arabs is unsuccesful, the Arabs are the problem. If there's Chinese people who don't accomodate you, the Chinese must go. You do not extend that olive branch, others must however, to always prove themselves to you. There's no introspection either, as opening any history book would enlighten you to the greatness and supposed boundless civility of anglosaxon societies and 'white people' - who are "we" to demand so much better from others?
You seem to expect a sort of enlightened civility from minority communities which you yourself are not prepared to strive for at all. They must be the better people; to be out in the streets protesting whenever a person of any colour is wrongfully assailed by police, to be examples of peaceful and organised demonstration, to cross the boundaries and care for you and your community as much as or even above their own, despite them disproportionally standing the lowest socioeconomic rungs on society's ladder. Meanwhile the slightest infraction or less-than-perfect behaviour on their end will instantly provoke your contempt and surface level judgments - usually focused on culture and skin colour. If black people destroy a storefront, it is proof the black community at large is a stain on society. If integration of Arabs is unsuccesful, the Arabs are the problem. If there's Chinese people who don't accomodate you, the Chinese must go. You do not extend that olive branch, others must however, to always prove themselves to you. There's no introspection either, as opening any history book would enlighten you to the greatness and supposed boundless civility of anglosaxon societies and 'white people' - who are "we" to demand so much better from others?
@dilbert Ignoring the context in which you posted that clip, we've been over the Shaver execution with Hollis in recent weeks. I believe we agreed that the guileless sergeant with the tactical wherewithal of a turnip giving befuddling commands was very much at fault here and the police should be trained better.
I would think this would be a similar argument for police training.
You'd also think they'd have better things with their time than to tail innocent people for several blocks, falsify traffic citations, and shoot people in the head with rubber bullets to name the tip of the iceberg.
I would think this would be a similar argument for police training.
You'd also think they'd have better things with their time than to tail innocent people for several blocks, falsify traffic citations, and shoot people in the head with rubber bullets to name the tip of the iceberg.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
jay, the way justice works is people get punished proportionately for what they do.
he could very well have been a dirtbag. but he didn’t deserve to get shot to death.
this isn’t complicated. you’re like one of those conservatives who immediately try to smear a person’s character and evade responsibility. i bet you know people yourself in your own life and family that have beat their wives or kids. do they deserve to get shot?
also funny rhetoric. why is it you’re always making out liberals to be ‘hysterical’ and yet you talk about ‘lol martyrs’. nobody treats these individuals as martyrs. people are affronted because the justice system is failing; there are no christians being thrown to the lions here.
he could very well have been a dirtbag. but he didn’t deserve to get shot to death.
this isn’t complicated. you’re like one of those conservatives who immediately try to smear a person’s character and evade responsibility. i bet you know people yourself in your own life and family that have beat their wives or kids. do they deserve to get shot?
also funny rhetoric. why is it you’re always making out liberals to be ‘hysterical’ and yet you talk about ‘lol martyrs’. nobody treats these individuals as martyrs. people are affronted because the justice system is failing; there are no christians being thrown to the lions here.
"This isn't complicated" why is your default to always be condescending?uziq wrote:
jay, the way justice works is people get punished proportionately for what they do.
he could very well have been a dirtbag. but he didn’t deserve to get shot to death.
this isn’t complicated. you’re like one of those conservatives who immediately try to smear a person’s character and evade responsibility. i bet you know people yourself in your own life and family that have beat their wives or kids. do they deserve to get shot?
also funny rhetoric. why is it you’re always making out liberals to be ‘hysterical’ and yet you talk about ‘lol martyrs’. nobody treats these individuals as martyrs. people are affronted because the justice system is failing; there are no christians being thrown to the lions here.
Anyway, pick your martyrs wisely. Why go to war with the world to defend scumbags? When a white person gets killed by the cops, white people don't care. It's assumed they deserved it, and they are the majority of people killed by cops, not black people.
This all has very little to do with police brutality. This is an exercise in pure intimidation. It is a minority using violence to cow the majority. It is about power. It is about educated black people using their violent, ignorant ghetto cousins to secure positions in corporations, academia, and government where they can be professional racists and earn their money by preying on white liberal guilt.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
i have to be condescending because apparently you see fit to character assassinate someone who just got shot to death.
'he had a drinking problem', 'he had a history of domestic abuse'. those are definitely problems which society has deemed appropriate punishments and measures for. being shot to death isn't one of them. what you are doing is basically being blithe about the execution of criminals. 'so what?' it's a very stupid conservative pose, you know, emphasizing the most draconian 'law-and-order' spiel for petty street-level criminals and then bootlicking the financial class who have, and continue to, put you into trillions of debt. i bet you're probably in support of letting bernie madoff out of jail for compassionate reasons.
'he had a drinking problem', 'he had a history of domestic abuse'. those are definitely problems which society has deemed appropriate punishments and measures for. being shot to death isn't one of them. what you are doing is basically being blithe about the execution of criminals. 'so what?' it's a very stupid conservative pose, you know, emphasizing the most draconian 'law-and-order' spiel for petty street-level criminals and then bootlicking the financial class who have, and continue to, put you into trillions of debt. i bet you're probably in support of letting bernie madoff out of jail for compassionate reasons.
lmao okay.It is about educated black people using their violent, ignorant ghetto cousins to secure positions in corporations, academia, and government where they can be professional racists and earn their money by preying on white liberal guilt.
Last edited by uziq (2020-06-16 06:36:18)
He wouldn't be dead if he didn't steal their taser and shoot it at them. Not quite Suicide by Cop, but in the neighborhood.uziq wrote:
i have to be condescending because apparently you see fit to character assassinate someone who just got shot to death.
'he had a drinking problem', 'he had a history of domestic abuse'. those are definitely problems which society has deemed appropriate punishments and measures for. being shot to death isn't one of them. what you are doing is basically being blithe about the execution of criminals. 'so what?' it's a very stupid conservative pose, you know, emphasizing the most draconian 'law-and-order' spiel for petty street-level criminals and then bootlicking the financial class who have, and continue to, put you into trillions of debt. i bet you're probably in support of letting bernie madoff out of jail for compassionate reasons.lmao okay.It is about educated black people using their violent, ignorant ghetto cousins to secure positions in corporations, academia, and government where they can be professional racists and earn their money by preying on white liberal guilt.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
It makes sense now, he was a convicted felon, he would have been going back to prison, no wonder he fought to avoid being arrested.uziq wrote:
jay, the way justice works is people get punished proportionately for what they do.
he could very well have been a dirtbag. but he didn’t deserve to get shot to death.
this isn’t complicated. you’re like one of those conservatives who immediately try to smear a person’s character and evade responsibility. i bet you know people yourself in your own life and family that have beat their wives or kids. do they deserve to get shot?
also funny rhetoric. why is it you’re always making out liberals to be ‘hysterical’ and yet you talk about ‘lol martyrs’. nobody treats these individuals as martyrs. people are affronted because the justice system is failing; there are no christians being thrown to the lions here.
If a convicted felon attacks two armed officers he should know there's a reasonable chance he's going to be shot.
As it happened the officers erred on the side of trying subdue him with a taser, and letting him attempt to tase them, then made the mistake of shooting him as he ran away.
They would have been within their rights to shoot him during the struggle, then we wouldn't have been having this discussion.
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i said in my first post it was a bad situation. the cops shouldn't have lost control of it in the first place. presumably they are trained on how to properly detain someone. so a guy who was 2 minutes earlier passed out from drunkenness somehow overpowered and got the slip from two armed police officers? ok.
it's entirely appropriate the guy lost his job. i wouldn't want to see him charged with a crime, but a chain of incompetence and rash mistakes led to someone being dead. that's not a small thing. even if that person was just out of prison. the way the justice system is supposed to work, jay, is that people do the crime and pay their time. you don't denigrate or make negligible their death because of past mistakes. it's a very silly attitude.
it's entirely appropriate the guy lost his job. i wouldn't want to see him charged with a crime, but a chain of incompetence and rash mistakes led to someone being dead. that's not a small thing. even if that person was just out of prison. the way the justice system is supposed to work, jay, is that people do the crime and pay their time. you don't denigrate or make negligible their death because of past mistakes. it's a very silly attitude.
I'm sure you're a great expert on hand-to-hand combat. Have you tried it? I have. Its not like chess.
The point is he was a violent convicted felon, not your average dad who dozed off waiting for a burger.
The point is he was a violent convicted felon, not your average dad who dozed off waiting for a burger.
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my point is that violent convicted felon or no, that shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not the police can shoot him. we don't live in a society where sheriffs hunt down criminals and bag-n-tag them.
and i do happen to know that, with pretty rudimentary grappling training, you can learn to effectively take down pretty much anyone. there were two of them and they outsized the guy. it's not difficult to immobilize and detain someone, no. especially with two people on one.
and i do happen to know that, with pretty rudimentary grappling training, you can learn to effectively take down pretty much anyone. there were two of them and they outsized the guy. it's not difficult to immobilize and detain someone, no. especially with two people on one.
Last edited by uziq (2020-06-16 06:49:54)
Sure, and that works 99% of the time. It works when people comply with being arrested and put their fate in the hands of a jury of their peers. Unfortunately, the compliance rate is pretty fucking low. Cops regularly have to kick, punch and yes, choke people to get handcuffs on. They get assaulted during the arrest process, even though it doesn't change the outcome, and usually adds to their charges.uziq wrote:
i said in my first post it was a bad situation. the cops shouldn't have lost control of it in the first place. presumably they are trained on how to properly detain someone. so a guy who was 2 minutes earlier passed out from drunkenness somehow overpowered and got the slip from two armed police officers? ok.
it's entirely appropriate the guy lost his job. i wouldn't want to see him charged with a crime, but a chain of incompetence and rash mistakes led to someone being dead. that's not a small thing. even if that person was just out of prison. the way the justice system is supposed to work, jay, is that people do the crime and pay their time. you don't denigrate or make negligible their death because of past mistakes. it's a very silly attitude.
Do your time, yes. Agreed.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Anything can happen in a fight, he was tased at least once maybe twice - from your immense experience of police take-downs do people normally continue wrestling after that?
I'm sure police spend plenty of time on physical training.
I'm sure police spend plenty of time on physical training.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-06-16 06:50:31)
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You've clearly never been in a fight.uziq wrote:
my point is that violent convicted felon or no, that shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not the police can shoot him. we don't live in a society where sheriffs hunt down criminals and bag-n-tag them.
and i do happen to know that, with pretty rudimentary grappling training, you can learn to effectively take down pretty much anyone. there were two of them and they outsized the guy. it's not difficult to immobilize and detain someone, no. especially with two people on one.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
maybe if police forces spent as much on introductory judo training as they do on high-tech armaments and military hand-me-downs, the policing picture would look a little different in america. instead people get shot when their tail-lights are out. police are taught to 'dominate' a situation and be assertive, which, especially in the case of black people, quickly escalates the the situation and increases tension.
the guy was heavily inebriated. he was drunk, not on PCP. how formidable are dead drunk people in fights?
the guy was heavily inebriated. he was drunk, not on PCP. how formidable are dead drunk people in fights?